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Neuroscience What is the biggest dopamine spike possible without drugs?

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psilocybonaut

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I know that sex increases dopamine by around 200%. Not sure of the metrics on exercise. Amphetamines cause a ~500% increase in dopamine. Mephedrone causes 900-1000% increase in dopamine.

What is the most you can spike your dopamine without drugs? Does anyone know? Is it possible to have a 500% dopamine increase with no substances? And if so what are the natural things that increase it the most?
 
Hill Climbing on a Track Bike its all the fuck I get.

[tried to say fun but my heart wasnt into it I guess..]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lactic acid-induced increase of extracellular dopamine measured by microdialysis in rat striatum: evidence for glutamatergic and oxidative mechanisms - PubMed

Striatal lactacidosis was induced by direct lactic acid perfusion to obtain a local pH as close as possible to that observed in ischemia. In a previous study we showed that such lactacidosis produces a diphasic increase in extracellular dopamine (DA). The present work investigated whether DA...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Fact that sex causes “only” 200% increase and amphetamine 500% doesn’t make amphetamines 2.5x better while sex on amphetamine makes it feel many times better than walk on amphetamines.

Even natural increase might be lower in numbers that doesn’t mean anything as dopamine is just one of countless parameters. Well it means a lot when it comes to adictivity but even than it’s only part of the formula, still far from clear formula.
 
Electrum1 said:
Winning a huge lottery maybe
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Everyone enjoy wining but just multiplying some win would be less of a factor than anticipation and all other stuff that make people addicted to gambling and similar. And wining a modest lottery after loosing everything probably “hits” harder.
 
Look at behaviors people get addicted to (sex, gambling, skinner box-esque games, extreme sports...)

That should at least provide a more concise list of things to compare, assuming that their addiction is predicated by dopamine signaling (which it likely is).
 
I think any list would be endless because there are some very unusual behavioral addictions.
 
AlsoTapered said:
I think any list would be endless because there are some very unusual behavioral addictions.
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Yeah, I’m pretty sure that many behaviors that cause big spike in cortisol in general population cause huge spike in feel good chemicals for some individuals.

Also with non-drug behaviors that feel fantastic dopamine doesn’t play that big part in feeling good, at least alone, it’s more conditioning to loving some act and not per se solely or even mainly what makes you feel fantastic. So 200% increase in dopamine without increase and decrease of a lot of chemicals wouldn’t be very appealing, I would say it wouldn’t be even appealing enough to prevent our species for extinction, I’m pretty sure that’s a fact.
 
Hexenstahl said:
Hitting a new level in world of warcraft :p
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That may sound like a funny answer, but I honestly believe some life events, no matter how small, can produce a dopamine spike rivalling that of sex and drugs. for me, sometimes reading an interesting science article can actually put me in a good mood for the rest of the day, especially if I feel like it has implications for mood related topics which I’m fascinated by.
 
psilocybonaut said:
I know that sex increases dopamine by around 200%. Not sure of the metrics on exercise. Amphetamines cause a ~500% increase in dopamine. Mephedrone causes 900-1000% increase in dopamine.

What is the most you can spike your dopamine without drugs? Does anyone know? Is it possible to have a 500% dopamine increase with no substances? And if so what are the natural things that increase it the most?
Click to expand...

All these come in below drugs I think, but these are spike dopamine (NPO):
Being hugged
Being kissed
Masturbation
Sex
Food you like
Chocolate (spikes dopamine more than any other food)
Exercise
Adrenergic activities like rollercoasters, bungee jumping etc

I'd add Caffeine as a maybe as it's a drug, but a legal and very common one. You could argue nicotine I guess, but then you'd have to add alcohol (which I'd DEFINITELY exclude, as it's legal but the equivalent of a class A (Schedule I) drug). These three are all in a grey are, I guess. My argument for caffeine is that I'm talking about having like a Starbucks, or can of Monster or something as opposed to taking several espresso shots in a row or taking caffeine pills with the intention of getting high. Only added it as a maybe as, like I said, nicotine is much more on the drug side of the maybe to me (unlike caffeine, there are very, very few people use nicotine and are not addicted to it) and then as a recovered alcoholic, adding alcohol just seems ridiculous to me.
 
anonymouse77 said:
Nicotine must raise dopamine. Very hard to quite smoke or using nicotine in any form.
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It does! But it's a mayyybeeee for the list because it IS a drug,

Fun Fact: Part of the reason nicotine is so addictive is that it affects not just dopamine, but also GABA, noradrenaline, acetylcholine, serotonin, glutamate and endorphins.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
It does! But it's a mayyybeeee for the list because it IS a drug,

Fun Fact: Part of the reason nicotine is so addictive is that it affects not just dopamine, but also GABA, noradrenaline, acetylcholine, serotonin, glutamate and endorphins.
Click to expand...


Oh yes, you’ve probably seen my posts before about how much I love nicotine. is it just me, or do you think nicotine’s psychoactive and addictive effects subtly creep up on a person. before I tried nicotine, I was in a high school science class and we were learning about stimulants. I asked my science teacher how caffeine and nicotine differed in the stimulant effect. He said something along the lines of caffeine, produces a more obvious and long-lasting mental and physical stimulation. he said that with nicotine, there is a short-lived pleasurable effect with relaxation and mental clarity which would last about an hour. all this was true for me when I tried nicotine a year later. there was one other thing, I can’t remember if it was my teacher, or somebody else who said it but it was definitely true in my case and it shocked me. they described nicotine as being a much more sinister stimulant than caffeine, as it often came across as much more gentle and only mildly euphoric/stimulating, yet would leave an imprint on a person giving them spontaneous cravings for it later on. at school, they used to tell us that it took at least about three cigarettes to get the average person hooked on nicotine. despite the fact that I’m only an occasional opportunistic nicotine user, I have cravings for it, almost on a daily basis, and I was hooked from the first hit of a nicotine replacement inhaler I secretly took from my father’s stash. I later came across a Study which found that rather than three cigarettes, it only took one Single puff of a cigarette to get the majority of people addicted. of course, that doesn’t mean they suddenly become daily smokers, but that tiny dose of nicotine from one hit of a cigarette is enough to set off a chain reaction in the brains of many, which will eventually lead to them becoming daily smokers. because of my cravings, and the benefit I had from nicotine, I’m eventually planning to become a daily nicotine user, though I’m planning to get it from A product with minimal carcinogens like Swedish Snuss or even better nicotine pouches, which contain no tobacco. i’m really desperate to try the brand of Swedish Snuss called Siberia extreme or something like that, it has a strong mint flavour and contains 45 mg nicotine per sachet. I think the sachets are small, and are meant to be placed in the lip but can be placed at the side of the cheek if one wants to hide them. i’ve seen people trying it as a challenge on YouTube and they absolutely hate it, it just makes me incredibly jealous because I know I would love it
 
That three cigarette thing!
When I was 11 this girl I had a crush on used to smoke and she'd always have a cigarette at lunch break. To get closer to her I decided to smoke with her. It wasn't even three whole cigarettes as I shared them with her, so three half-cigarettes. 3 over a week, like lunchtime on the Monday, Wednesday and Thursday or something then I realised how stupid it was and stopped.
I didn't actually start smoking until I was in my mid-twenties, but smoked occasionally (usually when drinking or mixed with weed in a joint) when I was 20. But for those 9 years in between I'd randomly get a really strong craving for a cigarette.

They used to have labels on cigarette packs here (UK) that told you the nicotine, tar and carbon monoxide amounts in them and they legally made them not do that which is so stupid because it helped make a more informed choice (like nutrition labels on food). I used to try and get the most nicotine with the least tar.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
That three cigarette thing!
When I was 11 this girl I had a crush on used to smoke and she'd always have a cigarette at lunch break. To get closer to her I decided to smoke with her. It wasn't even three whole cigarettes as I shared them with her, so three half-cigarettes. 3 over a week, like lunchtime on the Monday, Wednesday and Thursday or something then I realised how stupid it was and stopped.
I didn't actually start smoking until I was in my mid-twenties, but smoked occasionally (usually when drinking or mixed with weed in a joint) when I was 20. But for those 9 years in between I'd randomly get a really strong craving for a cigarette.

They used to have labels on cigarette packs here (UK) that told you the nicotine, tar and carbon monoxide amounts in them and they legally made them not do that which is so stupid because it helped make a more informed choice (like nutrition labels on food). I used to try and get the most nicotine with the least tar.
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Yes, there is definitely something to nicotine. I guess my persistent cravings are made worse by the fact that I was exposed to nicotine at such a young age. as a 15-year-old, I used to chew up 26 mg nicotine patches and hold the liquid in my mouth for 10 minutes before swallowing it down with a glass of milk. I did this at least nine or 10 times. of course, before this I inhaled six or seven cartridges of a nicotine replacement inhaler finishing each one in less than a minute and then chewing up the nicotine soaked sponge inside to make sure I don’t waste anything. A few years later, I found my father’s massive stash of Vapes so I used those on a daily basis, finishing each E-cigarette in a few hours on a daily basis. One day, my father got bored of vapes and threw out his stash but forgot his E -liquid which had a very high nicotine content. I found it and came up with the smart idea of administering it sublingually, by squirting a massive uncontrolled amount into my mouth and holding it under my tongue for 10 minutes. this used to give me huge euphoria as did my above-mentioned activities. I did this every morning for about three weeks and then intermittently for the next few months. at first, I would spit out the liquid but then I found out swallowing it gave me a bigger rush and lasted longer, plus I didn’t want to waste any precious nicotine. once that ran out, I decided to chew cigarette tobacco and even huge wads of pipe tobacco whenever I got the chance. strangely, whilst the euphoria of all these things was much greater than smoking, The time I successfully sneaked and smoked a cigarette gave me insight into why some people go from vaping or chewing tobacco to smoking cigarettes. It doesn’t make sense on the surface, but even with my past experience, when I smoke that cigarette, there was something uniquely satisfying about it. I still occasionally smoke cigarettes if I secretly get my hands on some but that’s because they’re the only form of nicotine available to me. nevertheless, despite being less euphoric cigarettes are incredibly Moorish. once I have one, the next day, I would get overwhelming urges to have another. it’s almost as if the smoke actually becomes tasty and I would just be secretly planning for my next cigarette. I would sometimes wait for my father to finish smoking and as soon as he left my apartment I took the opportunity to light my cigarette. that way, if he unexpectedly returned, the smell of smoke would not be suspicious as he would think it was his own smoke. sorry for the rant, I’m just really craving nicotine right now Plus the nostalgia of those times is killing me.
 
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