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what is the best college football conference?
- Thread starter axl blaze
- Start date
HighonLife
Bluelighter
Ahhh one of my favorite discussion subjects.Let's just say for now things may be changing drastically pending the potential expansions of the Big 10 and Pac-10. With the hiring of Larry Scott as Pac-10 commissioner, I'm just gonna tell all you doubters of the Best in the West to look out. Dude's gonna be looking to make the conference even more of a monster. Hell, there's even potential talk about Texas joining, which would be insane. It's all wait and see at this point.
that dont mean shit
there is potential talk about Tx joining the Big-10 aswell
Well considering the Pac-10 and Big 12 are considering a joint venture in the next round of TV contract negotiations, there's probably more of a chance Texas would be linked with the Pac-10 than the Big 10. Missouri is being linked more often to the Big 10 than Texas.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Tx is what everyone wants to steal - even SEC are using them as a name on the 'wish list' if there is expansions.
Trying to take the subjectivity and homerism out of it, I tried to give you guys some numbers to give a better assessment back on the front page of this thread:
^^ I think that was from the recent years (difference from earlier post is where we count UM+VT+BC being in BigE vs ACC). But if you read more back on that post you'll see sound reasoning on where the conferences rank against one another based on their performance against each other. It shows that tOSU is doing very well, in terms of getting to BCS games and NC appearances, but not for winning them so much.....and one team does not make a conference 'great' (ask PAC10). Actually, the PAC10 does well in BCS games....just not so much for the NC. It appears, inarguably to me, that the SEC is the strongest and best conference for having winning records in BCS bowl games as well as a perfect record in NC games, while having a variety of teams from the conference representing them in these contest - not a one team conference. Looking at the numbers, the Big12 is comparable to the Big10+1 in terms of BCS games, variety of teams representing there, and their relative success; but the Big12 is getting a team to the NC a lot more than the Big10+1, and a wider variety, with relatively the same success rate. Ergo Big12 > Big10+1.
But another objective way of asking the question is to look at the numbers of NFL players each conference produces, I suppose. So let's take a quick look at that as well.
Just running a few searches:
2007 - SEC Leads All Conferences in NFL Opening Day Rosters
2008 - What conferences are the NFL’s starters coming from?
Or if we wanted to rely on the NFL database, they have ways of sorting drafts, by year, by conference .... but I'm too lazy right now.
Trying to take the subjectivity and homerism out of it, I tried to give you guys some numbers to give a better assessment back on the front page of this thread:
^^ I think that was from the recent years (difference from earlier post is where we count UM+VT+BC being in BigE vs ACC). But if you read more back on that post you'll see sound reasoning on where the conferences rank against one another based on their performance against each other. It shows that tOSU is doing very well, in terms of getting to BCS games and NC appearances, but not for winning them so much.....and one team does not make a conference 'great' (ask PAC10). Actually, the PAC10 does well in BCS games....just not so much for the NC. It appears, inarguably to me, that the SEC is the strongest and best conference for having winning records in BCS bowl games as well as a perfect record in NC games, while having a variety of teams from the conference representing them in these contest - not a one team conference. Looking at the numbers, the Big12 is comparable to the Big10+1 in terms of BCS games, variety of teams representing there, and their relative success; but the Big12 is getting a team to the NC a lot more than the Big10+1, and a wider variety, with relatively the same success rate. Ergo Big12 > Big10+1.
But another objective way of asking the question is to look at the numbers of NFL players each conference produces, I suppose. So let's take a quick look at that as well.
Just running a few searches:
2007 - SEC Leads All Conferences in NFL Opening Day Rosters
2008 - What conferences are the NFL’s starters coming from?
Or if we wanted to rely on the NFL database, they have ways of sorting drafts, by year, by conference .... but I'm too lazy right now.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Sorry for replying in an out-of-sync thought stream, but the above was yesterday on conference strengths whereas this was something I worked up on a UF site where people are debating the Big10+1 expansion possibilities....and I see this thread as a general catch-all during our off-season, and the subject of (super)conference realignments would indeed effect which conference is stronger, IMO.
+++++++++++++++++++
The expansion talk is not predominately about competition, it is about:
1. Money - Getting NEB & MIZZ into the Big10+1 increases their marketing of the Big10 Network to more homes. More viewers is more money. Period. The same goes for offers to RUT or possibly SYR, it is to gain a larger market share for their network.
2. Fan base (more money) - RUT, while being historically not a great team (except in recent years, a bit), *is* the state school of NJ = a large population that buys school gear, and would support conference play in general (bowl game attendance, viewership on TV, etc)...well, as best the generally non-college-following citizens of NJ could muster. Same story for SYR, in that it is 'the state school' with a decent following. NEB has a die hard fan base, and while they'd be a bit upset at breaking ties with their historical home of the Big12, they would quickly get upbeat about making a name for themselves in the Big10+1 (and given their coaching and talent, compare to the Big10+1, they'd have a better shot at that than winning the Big12). MIZZ would bring them that state's fan base, though I don't believe that really amounts to much. ND? Well, gaining market share in Indiana isn't a big factor since IND is already in the conference, but you gain the NBC level of TV and bowl swag for the conference, what is supposedly one of the strongest fan bases for bowl attendance and tv viewership nationwide 8) and a lot of alumni that, if forced to give up their independence, would love to see their golden coneheads winning the conference they've historically played the most with.
3. Competition - this is a distant third, but they are looking at teams that would not upset the power atop their conference immediately, to preserve their (delusional) image of being a power conference already....but these teams have the 'potential' to become strong in coming years and represent the conference well. Not an immediate black eye for all the over-ranking of tOSU and PSU from the past years, as they'll still get those pre-season over-hyped rankings for a few years....until the likes of NEB and MIZZ start teaching them that the BIG12 was indeed more competitive than the Big10+1. It's a matter of bringing in 'names' with 'potential' but not immediate kings of the conference.
4. Recruiting - The Big10+1 cannot recruit all that well in TX, CAL, FL (SE in general), as schools like TX, USCw, and FL are already taking the top talent from those regions...and starting to take the top talent from other areas like NJ, NY, etc. For the Big10+1, gaining NEB and MIZZ feeds them lineman for their style of play; gaining RUT or SYR gains them some of the speed and talent from those regions that is currently migrating elsewhere for better schools. Gaining ND brings its own swag for the recruiting trails (either playing for ND, or playing against them and all the tv exposure).
All the conferences looking to expand (Big10+1, Punk10, and SEC) are talking about TX being a candidate for obvious reasons - they have a HUGE fan base, recruiting base, viewing audience, etc. That's the gem everyone wants, but you don't see them listed so much for the Big10+1 wish list as you do for SEC and Punk10, because TX most likely wouldn't really be up for that....but they might join the SEC or Punk10 (more likely, given a better chance to win championships and less competition for recruiting base in the area they join) if they see the Big12 get torn apart.
ND...ND....really, what they would most likely do, IMO, is watch the Big10+1 grab some mid-level teams like NEB, MIZZ, RUT, etc...then see which conference provides them the best chance of a good future. I do not believe they can maintain their independence if the superconferences come to fruition and realignment shakes out. ND has been waning in popularity with fans and players across the country, and I sincerely believe that to get back to being a 'big name school' they will have to join a conference and dominate it. Now, what gives them the best opportunity to do that? Big10+1 is a natural geographic (and academic) fit, but as much as we like to put down the quality level in the Big10+1 the simple fact is ND can't compete there on a regular basis. The only likely choices for ND would be the Punk10 who isn't really offering, based solely on a recurring match up with USCw....and the BigEasy which has been weak and-or declining for years, is likely to lose some of it's strength if RUT jumps to the Big10+1, and has been their 'conference home' for other sports for so long. The BigEasy presents ND with a BCS level conference affiliation, an opportunity to step in immediately and compete for the championship, and a good situation to become the long running conference king. Additionally, I have the impression a good portion of the ND faithful (outside of IND and the surrounding states) is in BigEasy territory, so they easily become the flagship program for the conference.
The SEC? FSU and UM are not going to leave the ACC where they have a shot at winning, and trade it for harder competition in the SEC. They would be trading away some of the territory they currently compete in for fans and recruiting, it doesn't make sense. Would they make more money? In football, probably. In basketball, probably not. Overall, yes....but bringing them into the SEC does nothing for them or the SEC. That, Captain Kirk, is illogical. CLEM or GT? Maybe....maybe...but I don't personally think so given we already have UGA and USCe. The teams that make the most sense for the SEC are the likes of TX (and TT), if they (TX) would do it. Beyond that, I'd be asking what schools can gain us viewership, fan base, and recruiting....which leaves slim pickings from the ACC and BigEasy.
+++++++++++++++++++
The expansion talk is not predominately about competition, it is about:
1. Money - Getting NEB & MIZZ into the Big10+1 increases their marketing of the Big10 Network to more homes. More viewers is more money. Period. The same goes for offers to RUT or possibly SYR, it is to gain a larger market share for their network.
2. Fan base (more money) - RUT, while being historically not a great team (except in recent years, a bit), *is* the state school of NJ = a large population that buys school gear, and would support conference play in general (bowl game attendance, viewership on TV, etc)...well, as best the generally non-college-following citizens of NJ could muster. Same story for SYR, in that it is 'the state school' with a decent following. NEB has a die hard fan base, and while they'd be a bit upset at breaking ties with their historical home of the Big12, they would quickly get upbeat about making a name for themselves in the Big10+1 (and given their coaching and talent, compare to the Big10+1, they'd have a better shot at that than winning the Big12). MIZZ would bring them that state's fan base, though I don't believe that really amounts to much. ND? Well, gaining market share in Indiana isn't a big factor since IND is already in the conference, but you gain the NBC level of TV and bowl swag for the conference, what is supposedly one of the strongest fan bases for bowl attendance and tv viewership nationwide 8) and a lot of alumni that, if forced to give up their independence, would love to see their golden coneheads winning the conference they've historically played the most with.
3. Competition - this is a distant third, but they are looking at teams that would not upset the power atop their conference immediately, to preserve their (delusional) image of being a power conference already....but these teams have the 'potential' to become strong in coming years and represent the conference well. Not an immediate black eye for all the over-ranking of tOSU and PSU from the past years, as they'll still get those pre-season over-hyped rankings for a few years....until the likes of NEB and MIZZ start teaching them that the BIG12 was indeed more competitive than the Big10+1. It's a matter of bringing in 'names' with 'potential' but not immediate kings of the conference.
4. Recruiting - The Big10+1 cannot recruit all that well in TX, CAL, FL (SE in general), as schools like TX, USCw, and FL are already taking the top talent from those regions...and starting to take the top talent from other areas like NJ, NY, etc. For the Big10+1, gaining NEB and MIZZ feeds them lineman for their style of play; gaining RUT or SYR gains them some of the speed and talent from those regions that is currently migrating elsewhere for better schools. Gaining ND brings its own swag for the recruiting trails (either playing for ND, or playing against them and all the tv exposure).
All the conferences looking to expand (Big10+1, Punk10, and SEC) are talking about TX being a candidate for obvious reasons - they have a HUGE fan base, recruiting base, viewing audience, etc. That's the gem everyone wants, but you don't see them listed so much for the Big10+1 wish list as you do for SEC and Punk10, because TX most likely wouldn't really be up for that....but they might join the SEC or Punk10 (more likely, given a better chance to win championships and less competition for recruiting base in the area they join) if they see the Big12 get torn apart.
ND...ND....really, what they would most likely do, IMO, is watch the Big10+1 grab some mid-level teams like NEB, MIZZ, RUT, etc...then see which conference provides them the best chance of a good future. I do not believe they can maintain their independence if the superconferences come to fruition and realignment shakes out. ND has been waning in popularity with fans and players across the country, and I sincerely believe that to get back to being a 'big name school' they will have to join a conference and dominate it. Now, what gives them the best opportunity to do that? Big10+1 is a natural geographic (and academic) fit, but as much as we like to put down the quality level in the Big10+1 the simple fact is ND can't compete there on a regular basis. The only likely choices for ND would be the Punk10 who isn't really offering, based solely on a recurring match up with USCw....and the BigEasy which has been weak and-or declining for years, is likely to lose some of it's strength if RUT jumps to the Big10+1, and has been their 'conference home' for other sports for so long. The BigEasy presents ND with a BCS level conference affiliation, an opportunity to step in immediately and compete for the championship, and a good situation to become the long running conference king. Additionally, I have the impression a good portion of the ND faithful (outside of IND and the surrounding states) is in BigEasy territory, so they easily become the flagship program for the conference.
The SEC? FSU and UM are not going to leave the ACC where they have a shot at winning, and trade it for harder competition in the SEC. They would be trading away some of the territory they currently compete in for fans and recruiting, it doesn't make sense. Would they make more money? In football, probably. In basketball, probably not. Overall, yes....but bringing them into the SEC does nothing for them or the SEC. That, Captain Kirk, is illogical. CLEM or GT? Maybe....maybe...but I don't personally think so given we already have UGA and USCe. The teams that make the most sense for the SEC are the likes of TX (and TT), if they (TX) would do it. Beyond that, I'd be asking what schools can gain us viewership, fan base, and recruiting....which leaves slim pickings from the ACC and BigEasy.
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cj
Bluelight Crew
^^^
I agree with much of what you say. The only thing I would say is that texas tech has a better chance of joining the sec then texas. The reason is like you said no one wants to bring in a team that will make the rest of the conferance look bad by competing for the championship in the first year. Also Texas Tech has Tommy Tubberville who has strong SEC ties.
I agree with much of what you say. The only thing I would say is that texas tech has a better chance of joining the sec then texas. The reason is like you said no one wants to bring in a team that will make the rest of the conferance look bad by competing for the championship in the first year. Also Texas Tech has Tommy Tubberville who has strong SEC ties.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Well, so far this week CU jumped from Big12 to Pac10 and NEB switched from Big12 to Big10+1+1....
my money says that in the next few years the Big12 will NOT be the best football conference
Lets see who else changes their conference affiliation :D
Actually with all the rumours afloat....I'm tempted to play Yahtzee with a bunch conference dice and see who goes where.
my money says that in the next few years the Big12 will NOT be the best football conference
Lets see who else changes their conference affiliation :D
Actually with all the rumours afloat....I'm tempted to play Yahtzee with a bunch conference dice and see who goes where.
Shimmer.Fade
Bluelighter
I would like to see OU to the SEC, but I don't think that will happen since we need to drag OSU around and maintain the RRR, not to mention stupid Texas won't leave behind their aTm/TT baggage.
I don't really like the thought of a Pac/Big 16. That is just too many teams in one conference.
I think I would be willing to give up the RRR for OU and OSU to the SEC.
I don't really like the thought of a Pac/Big 16. That is just too many teams in one conference.
I think I would be willing to give up the RRR for OU and OSU to the SEC.
HighonLife
Bluelighter
i kinda want to see Tx n OU in the SEC, i know its unrealistic but im just sayin, lets see how they match up, i still say TX woulda stomped Bama if McCoy didnt get rocked n even with the freshman Gilbert they still almost won, i believe TX can hang anywhere and that some of people that are 'homers' of the Big 10 n Pac 10 who are wishing for TX might wanna be careful what they wish for
im just sayin
im just sayin
AmorRoark
Bluelight Crew
And Texas comes to their senses. Have fun in the Big 10 Nebraska. We won't miss you. 
What is the bottom line in all of this? The Big 12-2 is Texas' bitch.
FU Texas...we could've easily had the best conference in college football.
I guess Utah isn't a bad consolation prize, but compared to the riches of the dream once known as the Pac-16...bah!
FU Texas...we could've easily had the best conference in college football.
I guess Utah isn't a bad consolation prize, but compared to the riches of the dream once known as the Pac-16...bah!
Pander Bear
Bluelight Crew
^^
remember when that was the ACC's plan?
Putting TX anywhere other than the big XII is disgusting.
remember when that was the ACC's plan?
Putting TX anywhere other than the big XII is disgusting.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Well, the Punk10(+2) will go up, IMO - and are better off than they were. It's long been viewed as USCw and the 9 dwarves, but with USC getting crippled for the next few years it would hurt the chances of the other teams that were getting good enough to beat a valid USC team to beat their chest nationwide. Adding these other teams (CU=meh, UT=meh+) and going to a conference championship will raise the public view of the conference overall, IMO, and help cover over the blemish that is now USCw. If TX had come in now, it'd be TX and it's left coast bitches for a few years ![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Speaking of which, that is exactly what the Big12(-2) has evolved further into being - the old Punk10 (I may have to stop referring to them as that, as much as it tickles me....and not just for the number of teams)... Big12(-2) is now TX and the 9 dwarves. I know people will want to talk about OU, OSU, TAM, and maybe even TT as still being relevant, and they are in comparison to the other teams in the conference, but it always has been TX and it's bitches. It's like TX is the pimp, while OU-OSU-TAM-TT were the big tittied ho's, and NEB-CU just got tired of getting bitchslapped They've moved into someone else's bed....where CU can snuggle up and get bedtime stories, and NEB can grunt in the cold and snow during games with the rest of their beefy conference brethren.
Pac-16? I still think the conference commisioner will make more grabs at growth, maybe not this year (but who knows).....but they will not stop here in the long run. I'd say we have a Big10+4 in another few years (whenever TV contracts get renewed) as well as a PAC10+4 or +2. SEC will end up going to 14 teams at the same time (maybe 16 if the PAC and B10+6 happens)....which will be the end of the Big12 (the question here will be who is left without a home, and who gets TX...or who wants them, given their appetite for $$)? The other question at that time will be with the ACC and BigE in wondering which gets eaten, or do they both staff up with ConfUSA and MAC teams to try and stay alive?
Speaking of which, that is exactly what the Big12(-2) has evolved further into being - the old Punk10 (I may have to stop referring to them as that, as much as it tickles me....and not just for the number of teams)... Big12(-2) is now TX and the 9 dwarves. I know people will want to talk about OU, OSU, TAM, and maybe even TT as still being relevant, and they are in comparison to the other teams in the conference, but it always has been TX and it's bitches. It's like TX is the pimp, while OU-OSU-TAM-TT were the big tittied ho's, and NEB-CU just got tired of getting bitchslapped
They've moved into someone else's bed....where CU can snuggle up and get bedtime stories, and NEB can grunt in the cold and snow during games with the rest of their beefy conference brethren.Pac-16? I still think the conference commisioner will make more grabs at growth, maybe not this year (but who knows).....but they will not stop here in the long run. I'd say we have a Big10+4 in another few years (whenever TV contracts get renewed) as well as a PAC10+4 or +2. SEC will end up going to 14 teams at the same time (maybe 16 if the PAC and B10+6 happens)....which will be the end of the Big12 (the question here will be who is left without a home, and who gets TX...or who wants them, given their appetite for $$)? The other question at that time will be with the ACC and BigE in wondering which gets eaten, or do they both staff up with ConfUSA and MAC teams to try and stay alive?
Pander Bear
Bluelight Crew
merger fever is insane. I mean, I'd be happy for the SEC to pick up some texas teams, maybe FSU, maybe Clemson-- but the whole thing freaks me the fuck out.
Fucking texas in the fucking wack 10... a state with an atlantic coast and no pacific coast in the pac 10. Fucking retarded. Why not just try to get OSU while you're at it?
Fucking texas in the fucking wack 10... a state with an atlantic coast and no pacific coast in the pac 10. Fucking retarded. Why not just try to get OSU while you're at it?
MD Specialist
Bluelighter
^ No offense but what part of Texas touches the Atlantic? ; )
All this conference talk and super conference for the Big (number here) and Pac (insert #) to only have Nebraska go to the Big # and CO and Utah going to the Pac #? Lame in my opinion. I was hoping for some real news.
And now that Nebraska is not in the Big 12 who is going to win the northern division to play Texas for the big 12 title?
All this conference talk and super conference for the Big (number here) and Pac (insert #) to only have Nebraska go to the Big # and CO and Utah going to the Pac #? Lame in my opinion. I was hoping for some real news.
And now that Nebraska is not in the Big 12 who is going to win the northern division to play Texas for the big 12 title?
Shimmer.Fade
Bluelighter
^ No offense, but I hope you are not really an MD specialist.
BTW. Pretty funny calling OU Texas' bitch. Maybe in a few sports, but most certainly not in football.
BTW. Pretty funny calling OU Texas' bitch. Maybe in a few sports, but most certainly not in football.
MD Specialist
Bluelighter
t
ha ha. Oh maybe one day.
ha ha. Oh maybe one day.
HighonLife
Bluelighter
you talkin bout the Gulf of Mexico? not quite the Atlantic Ocean
Well.......one could certainly argue that without Texas (as a state) OU would be nothing, the majority of thier football recruits and students are from Texas, OU is what it is b/c Tx is its next door neighboor, so Texas' Bitch could mean many things, js.
Shimmer.Fade
Bluelighter
I'm sorry..I guess subtlety slips past some of you. You are fucking retarded if you don't think the Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic, go back to school and learn some geography.
Uhm, we were referring to UT. Anyways, why would OU getting recruits from Texas make us Texas' bitch because they are our next door neighbor? Wouldn't it make sense that students and players want to stay close to home.
However, once again you are writing things you actually don't know anything about. As of 2006 22% of the students at OU came from Texas. 39 of our 98 man roster are from Texas. Do you know what a majority is? Get your facts straight before you once again make yourself look stupid.
Other proof OU is not Texas' bitch when it comes to the playing field.
-Oklahoma is first all time for the most weeks ranked #1 in the AP Poll with 97 weeks.
-Post-WWII, Oklahoma has the most wins with 535, and the highest winning percentage with .761 in the country
-Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for most 11 win seasons with 18
-Most weeks ranked #1 in the BCS with 19 weeks
-Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for most consecutive victories with 47.
-Oklahoma has won 3 straight Big 12 Championships in the years 2006–2008 for a total of six.(from a total of 14 championship games)
-Oklahoma has the most points scored in the history of NCAA football with 30,474 through the 2008 regular season.
-Oklahoma has 7 national championships
Uhm, we were referring to UT. Anyways, why would OU getting recruits from Texas make us Texas' bitch because they are our next door neighbor? Wouldn't it make sense that students and players want to stay close to home.
However, once again you are writing things you actually don't know anything about. As of 2006 22% of the students at OU came from Texas. 39 of our 98 man roster are from Texas. Do you know what a majority is? Get your facts straight before you once again make yourself look stupid.
Other proof OU is not Texas' bitch when it comes to the playing field.
-Oklahoma is first all time for the most weeks ranked #1 in the AP Poll with 97 weeks.
-Post-WWII, Oklahoma has the most wins with 535, and the highest winning percentage with .761 in the country
-Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for most 11 win seasons with 18
-Most weeks ranked #1 in the BCS with 19 weeks
-Oklahoma holds the NCAA record for most consecutive victories with 47.
-Oklahoma has won 3 straight Big 12 Championships in the years 2006–2008 for a total of six.(from a total of 14 championship games)
-Oklahoma has the most points scored in the history of NCAA football with 30,474 through the 2008 regular season.
-Oklahoma has 7 national championships