What is more damaging in recreational use opiates or amphetamines

[Intenselife]

Ok, so about a few years ago when i was introduced into the world of drugs and eventually got to try all them except a few i quickly fell in love with uppers particularly with occassional use of meth. I hated downers at that point, until much later on I guess you could say till present day now. I fell in love with strong euphoria of adderall/meth and at that time never even binged on them or used them often because the comedown was so intense. I have a quiet a few experiences and memories of literally laying their feeling sooooo depressed that words can't explain, aching body, irritability, and not able to do anything sometimes upto a full two days without any binging. I loved the desire to be so interested in pretty much anything, clear thinking, and extreme energy to do anything but mainly just feeling very amazing about everything with the occassional tingles (amphetamine users know about those tingles). I hated downers because they didn't really motivate me to get much done or look at my life in a more positive manner, or ways to fix issues but rather just turn my mind off and make me real nauseous.

As much time has passed by and my recreational drug use has slowed down a lot due to moving situations, and focusing more on school and staying out of trouble. I have learned to like opiates probably after the first time and the only time i got to try heroin smoked black tar, because i didn't feel like throwing up or very itchy/irritable. And when i smoked weed with it, that's what made me realize that just because i didn't feel amazing off of oxycodone 20's that not all opiates are bad. I smoked the 15 dollars worth of black tar of unknown quality since i have like zero experience with heroin, and i got like 3 solid hits that tasted real bitter. I felt the pain relief and more upbeat than oxys but quickly smoked weed, and started feeling BUTTERFLIES ALL OVER MY STOMACH, (a sensation i never felt before) it's like when you have a huge crush on someone or are in love with someone but the feeling goes away fast but it stayed for a few hours and was tingling all over me unlike oxys that i knew so many people were in love with. However that was awhile back, and after experimenting with codeine t4's after a minor surgery (i told them i didn't want the oxycodone) I for some reason really liked the feeling of taking like 180mg codeine with no tolerance and sometimes a bit more, although it was sedating it was pretty euphoric and did NOT have no comedowns or after effects like amphetamines did. Same thing with the few times i tried morphine (besides heroin, my favorite opiate followed by codeine, than oxys, least hydros). Although i didn't love the experience that much then, i look back at it now and realized it was great to feel even more pain free than usual and warm. Then after trying oxy's again at a lower dosage i seemed to like them too, but didn't LOVE it. Hydro's i found frequently unused on vacations at various relative's house's. I realized i had to take quiet a bit of them and all that tylenol to feel somewhat good but not mindblowing.

Now anyways that was a little history of a little experience with each type of drug for background info before i get to the main point of this thread. Since over a year now, i've had much less opportunities to try drugs/pills since i moved to a very lame city, and other factors. But as always it seems to be meth that finds itself to me the easiest (especially in the gay community, since i am gay). I would try to look for pills like oxy's or even better in my opinion codeine/morphine/heroin but never found anyone with that but like once. But meth was what i ran into and i wasn't looking for it because of the nasty comedowns and the shitty feeling i would get from even snorting like 2 lines. I remember having no comedowns or negative after effects from recreationally doing opiates if anything i felt better the next day and refreshed, if worst came to worse i would just get real itchy or nauseous during the high but that was only for a few hours. After giving in and playing around with meth here and there and smoking it for the first time with a pipe i realized that i mastered the technique quick and would sometimes binge for a few days every month like 5 or 6 times. This particular batch that i would got like 3 of the times was far better than the meth that i would love and hate in my previous city. I would take 5-6 (giant not medium) hits and i would against the rule of blowing it out right away and instead hold them in for 15 seconds or so. I finally experienced a rush, where my face would get so tingly, head, and even my arms although it would wear off in an hour and was a gentler high. My comedowns from even using almost half a gram in two days weren't THAT bad compared to the comedowns i remember from doing like snorting two lines (20) in the past. I would just be real sleepy for a few days and slightly depressed but overall didn't feel as shitty as in the past (This is probably due to being on prescribed meds now). I said goodbye to occassional use of meth because i just couldn't stand dealers being so shady and got ripped off a few times, and once stranded at the store with the tweaker who stole my phone and asked to go inside to get him needles. After that point my parents became a bit more suspicious of something is odd, and I had my mild adhd addressed and got adderall prescribed not too long ago. Luckily i get an amazing high off them at around 40-60mg and then with a break like 3 days. Even the first 5 days when taking them "as prescribed 20mg instant release twice a day, that i requested") i noticed the positive effects were going away, the mood lift, motivation, concentration, and euphoria. Plus the comedown after 3-4 hour high was just and still is unbearable even after a safely prescribed dose of benzos etc. So now the trick i realized is to take breaks in between to maintain the positive effects of the drug, while also escaping an addiction.

Now if you had the interest or patience to even read half of what i wrote, although i just got a new job after a long time, am waiting to get accepted in nursing school (only 21) and stay out of trouble and not look for drugs anymore because of the trouble it brings, I do often wonder what is more damaging recreationally using amphetamines (meth, adderall, the other ones i haven't used (vyvanse, concerta, ritalin, dexedrine), OR hmm recreationally high doses of codeine, morphine, oxy 30's, heroin etc. In my experiences some that i did not mention obviously as you can see how much i've typed already, i realize that i never have any negative side effects with occassional use of opiates, but even with occassional use of amphetamines theirs always some sort of comedown, and scientifically i do know that it does severely deplete dopamine. People always like to say opiates (in terms of addiction) are more physical, and amphetamines are more (mental). I wouldn't know about addiction because i haven't experienced one with either and never want to, but i personally have seen people addicted/recreationally using AMPHETAMINES with a hell a lot more problems then people even addicted to OPIATES/recreationally using. I've noticed frequent amphetamine users have much more anger issues, anxiety, paranoia, worse physical appearance than those who are even addicted to opiates. Sometimes i can barely stand the comedown from amphetamines (meth or now adderall) with rare use and the extreme depression, etc etc that come along with it. I couldn't/can't even take my adderall as prescribed even if i did have super bad adhd because i just couldn't imagine how angry and depressed i could become with a short period of time. On the other hand i haven't experienced any problems with dosing opiates even upto 3-4 times in a week.

My point and what I would like to understand from people with personal experience or even just opinions, what do you think is more damaging the recreational use of amphetamines or opiates? I doubt anyone will respond to this thread because i made it a tad (lmao a tad) ok a hell of a long post but could of written pages more. Excited to here some responses, opinions, experiences hopefully from others.

 

[alt 14]

I can't read all that shit man, that's crazy. All your posts are unnessarily long; just something to work on.

Amphetamines are worse for your brain and heart (body) whereas opiates are relatively benign. But opiates are more closely associated with addiction than amphetamines (have physical withdrawal symptoms). But don't be fooled, amphetamines are addictive too.

For the rest of your questions try to ask them in 1-3 sentences each in their own paragraph and ill get you the info

 

[Intenselife]

You don't have to reply if their too long for you. I make them that way to get my damn point across with details that may seem like rubbish to you. It's probably because you thinking my posts are "unnecessarily" long is the same reason for you responding how you did in my previous thread. Sorry jesus, i didn't mean to "unnecessarily" type a lot, i do it all the time and that's why i stated that some people probably won't read the entire thing. I like to read long detailed posts on certain threads, and write long ones certain threads as well, sorry it's just me.

And no thanks i'd rather not ask someone questions in 1-3 sentences that wants to respond with an attitude. A lot of the text was my personal opinion and direct experience with the thread i posted. But its whatever.

 

[alt 14]

Ok man suit yourself? You said in your thread yourself that it was "a tad (lol a tad) too long."

It just seems like you're spun out because most of those words are just filler words

 

[Morphling]

Meth.

Yes, I did read the whole bit. lol

 

[Intenselife]

Ok man suit yourself? You said in your thread yourself that it was "a tad (lol a tad) too long."

It just seems like you're spun out because most of those words are just filler words

Did you read it again numbnut, what did i say after that? I said ok maybe a hell a lot, and sorry my vocabulary isn't great enough to understand what you mean by "filler" words because they were strictly on the topic just in more details about personal experiences. And some people maybe won't like reading the whole thing like you, but criticizing me for it isn't really going to change it.

 

[Intenselife]

Meth.

Yes, I did read the whole bit. lol

That's good to know, it gets a little annoying when people reply to your posts telling you that you wrote too much when you never forced them to reply. Either way, it's interesting you say meth because i mentioned that i have seen a lot of people damaged in many ways particularly with meth more then any other drug. But than again people make it seem like an opiate addiction even a mild one is way worse, but everyone has their own experience/opinion which is why i posted this thread.

If you don't mind me asking, did it damage you in anyway long term wise as in even after not using it for a long ass time?

 

[Morphling]

I've never heavily abused meth, but I have seen a great many people do so. Yes, it fucked them up pretty bad mentally and physically.

I have been through the opiate addiction bit, and it's not physically damaging. It can screw up your entire life easily, however. Fortunately I've had good financial resources and what so not been on the streets or any of that bit.

 

[alt 14]

Lol dude I just answer the questions, when i throw personal shit in there like agreeing its too long, it means I like the style. Just putting it in perspective.

Sorry you don't like me back, or if I hurt your feelings by pointing out its a turn off to me.

 

[Intenselife]

The majority of the most "messed up" addicts i've seen were the meth users. Physically a lot of them were either real skinny or gained weight when not using, many had scars on their face, teeth roten, real bad, and worst of all i never knew exactly what was going on in their head.

Good to hear the opiate addiction didn't get to that point, I often wonder where does crack addiction fall in all this probably in between because i forgot that's not an amphetamine but whenever i see someone homeless shaking etc (involuntary movements) i usually think it's someone addicted to crack but it could be anything. Never had an interest in crack did it once and done.

 

[RobotRipping]

amps.

both physically and emotionally but for some people, they can lead far more productive lives on amps than opiates, for others it's the other way around.

Either way being an addict is going to fuck you around, if you can eliminate the negative aspects of your drug use then you don't actually have a problem and people like that are the ones with success stories.

Sorry OP i'm spun as fuck and can't get through that post completely lol Essentially, what is more damaging on a recreational basis? well amphetamines, methamphetamine for sure. It's fucking neurotoxic. Also define recreational use, like 2-3 times/week staying up for 36 hours? or just taking an oral dose of methamphetamine once a week? cause that wouldn't' be so bad but you can't beat opiates in terms of physical and mental safety especially when you are talking recreationally. Methamphetamine is far more addictive IMO and although the physical withdrawals aren't any comparison, the cravings for amps are far worse than for opiates IME.

Just use methamphetamine in moderation or find a non-neurotoxic alternative like dextromethylphenidate or something, or stick to low doses. I fucking love amphetamines, whether meth, d-amp, adderall, whatever but there's no question that opiates are so much easier on the body and mind. However cathinones, stimulating psychedelics and things like methylphenidate and friends are safer alternatives if you must tweak.

TBH both classes of drugs are really fucking hard to keep to recreational use so that should also be a consideration.

 

[alt 14]

I know for a fact some cathinones are neurotoxic, namely 4mmc. Interesting to hear methylphenidate isn't significantly neurotoxic. Did not know this. Thanks !

 

[RobotRipping]

^yes you're correct AFIAK about mephedrone but flephedrone is not as susceptible and there are a few others that in speculation, may be far less neurotoxic. IRT MPH, it's not neurotoxic! not that that's great news or anything but in terms of treating ADD/ADHD long term, might be something to consider.

My psychiatrist who is an expert on add/adhd and stimulants says the neurotoxicity of daily use isn't a concern with amphetamines but he also says they do not cause dependence or tolerance either and is likely spun as fuck on d-amp all the time, so i don't completely trust his professional opinion.

now the neurotoxicity of amps in terms of recreational use, say once or twice a week, is it really that big of a concern? i think that's still up for debate, so long as you take care of your body/health, i don't think it's a huge issue, nevertheless opiates are physically safer by all means with a few exceptions (like demerol and such).

if i had to chose one class of drugs over the other for functionality/recreation though it'd definitely be amphetamines, even if they kill you. As much as i love opiates, i don't get shit accomplished with them and nodding out seems like a huge waste of time to me now.

 

[Intenselife]

Lol to robotripping, yes i already know your love affair with methamphetamine because you had those lovely written trip reports that were so detailed and interesting. I was using meth recreationally but after i got bunked by two seperate dealers, and had my phone stolen and got stranded at cvs with a third person i just gave up on trying to get meth because of all the bad luck that follows with it. I mean maybe it would be different if i directly knew a dealer who was reliable and drove, but many dealers come and go and it's the middle man who fucks me over or just has their up and down days idk, i have adderall prescribed now which is good enough for me.

The comedown can be pretty nasty from adderall too even if you use it once a week or even once a month, well i guess it depends on the dosage you take. Since with no tolerance my sweet spot, is higher than 20mg which wouldn't be too bad. As i'm coming down i'm usually never sleep deprived because i don't take it that late, but besides the extreme depression and lowered mood level, i get a massive headache (even at the prescribed dose which i avoid taking daily 20mg ir twice a day) A lot of it has to do with the lack of eating because if i ate little as i do when i take the adderall or even when i would do meth, i would probably throw up so it makes sense. But i don't know it's like this pain in your head almost feels like your brain and it feels like ..... something damaging because it's not something i ever feel except when coming off amphetamines.

But idk if your familiar with adderall, but a few experiences on meth have left me feeling the "comedown" for almost upto 3 days with a single session and once i'm sleep deprived enough to fall asleep i feel real sleepy for the days following and very depressed not wanting to do anything. I have never felt that way from opiates but i guess that's when you become addicted to them. People say amphetamines are a walk in the park in terms of addiction to opiates, although i have not been addicted to either, from recreational experiences i feel some horrific side effects from amphetamines and have seen them physically and mentally destroy people more than opiate addicts. I have seen people withdraw from opiates and feel better after no more than a week, but have seen people off meth for years and still parts of their brain just doesn't function right.

Idk though, opiate withdrawals if they consist of persistent throwing up, absolutely no sleep, and not minor but major pain in the body than yeah i could imagine that the addiction might be worse physically but i don't believe when people say amphetamines have no withdrawal or physical aspect to it, because from even very rare use i almost always get a comedown sometimes not as bad, sometimes real bad and then sometimes physical pain too pounding head, heart racing like crazy, body aches.

Never heard of a comedown or had one from the recreational use of opiates. Always do from amphetamines, always the ride never ends smooth unless you have the right things to mix it with to take the edge off. Plus all that dopamine aten away eeeek! Well i took a few benzos this massive head/brain pain is so intense, i just hope i can fall asleep and wake up feeling better and not too shitty especially in the depression department, what goes UP must come DOWN. I feel bad for tiny 100 pound 5'0 amphetamine addicted females, jeeze i wonder how they deal with it, i could never do this daily. I just wouldn't be able to..... just couldn't..... must go lay down in this pain and guilt shit now.

 

[RobotRipping]

yeah amphetamines do give a nasty comedown especially racemic mixtures like street methamp or adderall. Dextroamphetamine is much more smooth and doesn't really have a come down. I hear the same is for focalin (d-methamphetamine).

and quitting amps is no walk in the park indeed; it's so difficult because you have no motivation, depressed, or enjoyment in anything you do but this doesn't last that long, cravings will get you every now and then but after a week or two (or more depending on your usage), you are back to normal whereas with opiates it can take much longer and yes opiate physical withdrawals and the PAWS can be that bad. For amphetamines there's definitely a physical withdrawal but more torture psychologically, kind of the inverse of opiate w/d IME.

those things only become an issue if you do indeed become dependent and/or addicted to those substances though. In terms of recreational use, opiates are safer physically and mentally, by any measure, so long as you don't overdose or mix with other CNS depressants.

If you're a regular adderall user now; you have to make sure you are eating properly and staying hydrated. You will feel like shit if you get dehdryated. Those are the big things that will fuck you in the long term if you aren't conscious of them. I find it important to stay on task and not fuck with dosages either, i've blasted my dexedrine tolerance so high from binging on it that my regular dose is shit for controlling ADD and i'l get that withdrawal/comedown feeling from it if i don't up the dose to at least 80mg.

Dextroamphetamine or dexedrine more so has a much much smoother come down, often i just feel tired from it and fall asleep. I've been taking scripted high doses for months now, if i don't have 2 doses per day, ill crash at night and basically feel like i can't enjoy anything, want to eat, and just go to sleep. The actual withdrawal from it is the same deal just drawn out much longer with worse cravings. Might be a good idea to switch over to dextroamphetamine it's cheaper if nothing else and is far more smooth.

it's especially hard to quit amphetamines when you're scripted them as well and they do provide actual benefits. That's another reason i think opiate rec use is safer, amps are incredibly fucking addictive though i guess that varies from person to person as well. IME benzos/opiates were easier to quit and stay away from than amps are. And i used to be a pure downer person, hated stims.

 

[Intenselife]

Yeah luckily i've dodged an addiction to everything i've tried so far because i was smart enough to educate myself on addiction, withdrawals, and read personal stories on erowid. Besides i didn't see what the fun would be if i have to keep taking more and can't afford it, feel less good every time, create a variety of of side effects etc etc. As i told you and you stated, even when i recreationally would use meth, whether it used to be two big lines at once, or almost half a gram (involved with sleep deprivation) i can feel very very depressed the following day even if i fall asleep for a long time and very little energy to do anything, little hope, so i can only imagine if that was an addiction 10x worse yikes! Well after taking my prescribed benzos and then half a sandwich and what really helped a shot of nyquil i feel a lot better now, it's almost unexplainable it was mainly that one shot of nyquil obviously the bullshit apap reduced the headache/pain and maybe the dxm prevented dopamine damage.

This is what keeps me from keeping to my vows and wanting to use adderall or any other drug daily or too frequently, the cons beat the pros and that defeats the whole purpose. It's funny because if i feel open with someone and mention some of the things i've tried especially meth, obviously not only do i get that judgemental look but they seem surprised because of how smart I am on a variety of topics and don't "look" like someone who uses it, i dress real nice and have a real spunky personality even when sober as long as things are going well. But don't get me wrong on a short meth binge, i start to lose motivation after the first few sessions and lose desire to shave, brush my teeth, consistently shower, dress spectacular unless i have to go somewhere. But amphetamines have opened up my mind to understanding things i probably wouldn't if i was the typical sober person saying "i don't do drugs or hang out with druggies".

People don't know all my niceness and advice, and intelligence partly come from my crazy experiences many which involved drugs. I'm not hunting for drugs all the time like i have in the past, i have to much trust issues now and have other bigger things that need to be taken care of, as i always felt when looking for drugs it opens the doors to bad things happening.

 

[RobotRipping]

AFIAK daily therapeutic adderall or d-amp use has not been proven to cause any significant damage, especially acute damage or damage that is at all apparent in the shorter term (under 15 years) and it's debated as to whether therapeutic doses will cause any actual damage as well and if so, whether it is significant or not. Not to encourage you to use it or anything, i don't think you're frying dopamine receptors in your brain though. That headache is likely dehydration, the comedown a combination of dehydration, not eating enough and residual stimulation rather than any actual damage occurring, you likely would not feel damage occurring at all.

I never even tried to avoid addiction, it just kinda crept up on me then kept snowballing until everything became fucked. I was well informed especially with opiates and benzos, but life was fucked and despite knowing better i went into addiction/dependence anyway. When it comes to addiction all logic gets thrown out, you can start to see yourself making up stupid schemes that you know will not work but will do anyway.

in terms of societal interactions i find drug users always find each other, looks, education, make no difference, it's something you can see or tell about a person pretty quickly. That's just my experience though, likely due to lifestyle choices and such but i can seek out other drug users just as easily, just by seeing how they live/speak/think about things. But yeah regular people are not going to think of methamphetamine an an intellectual drug of abuse because of the stigmas attached to it.

in treating add/adhd i think amphetamines are actually great medications, when i don't abuse them, they truly affect my life postiviely. It's funny to me that people frown on methamphetamine addicts but if i'm scripted a high dose of dextroamphetamine/adderall no one even knows or cares. I've learned much from even my experiences with addictions, i really don't understand how else i would really have known what it was like without experiencing it. The trouble of finding reliable people/sketchy people/sketchy situations is what keeps me away from street opiates/benzos and in turn methamp/mdma/k and all their buddies. The lifestyle is far worse than the drug(s) itself/themselves.

 

[Intenselife]

I know right, well i'm not really abusing the adderalls i have started my breaks in between the doses, and other than the initial comedown i don't feel too terrible in the lingering days. Maybe if i was too just pop them all the time that's a whole different story that does not apply to me luckily. I have had a good dealer a long time ago in the past he was reliable etc, but now I can't deal with trying to buy these drugs that i wouldn't mind doing (ketamine, acid, heroin etc) i wouldn't mind trying them here and their, but i realized it's not worth the trouble and risk that comes with going out of your way to obtain them. It's different if a close friend or someone you know does/has/sell them. Of course i always find myself saying ooof a morphine would be nice right now, but i've learned from these negative experiences of copping off the streets and the bad experiences it led into and could be worse if i didn't have any self control.

I'm pretty content with safely using my prescriptions sometimes even less than prescribed, which is great and thus i'm not like a wild animal anymore trying to relieve certain symptoms that are not too complicated to treat if the psychiatrist isn't a jackass. At the end of the day if i'm getting more benefit than loss that's what matters, when things (and hopefully never will) start going downhill and little benefit, it's time to reevaluate certain things but that's why i always say theirs a clear definition between recreational use, and an actual addiction, some people can hang others can't to each is their own. I genuinely care enough about people (that i may not even know) to not want to imagine themself putting themselves through that torture. Read my post on drug culture i don't know if will make full sense to you, but it seems like you'll get an idea of what i'm talking about more than some others might. Wish me luck in a deep sleep (may happen or may not it better, have a busy day tomorrow)

 

[RobotRipping]

indeed, copping off the streets involves way too much fucking unneeded drama, so much so that i'd rather not do illicit drugs.

I went the Dr. route because i do actually have ADD but i get scripted 100mg/day of d-amp/mph/adderral (i can chose which one and i like dexedrine the best) and it's ridiculous, but i'm not going to say anything, i'm going to hold onto this Dr for dear life but i don't want to be taking 100mg/day. It's pretty messed up but ultimately i have to be accountable for myself and my own actions and i can save the spares for a rainy day or exam time or something.

there's a super thin line between recreation and addiction, addiction only occurs when you lose control and the drug negatively affects your life. The less cautious and aware that you are susceptible to it as much as any other person the better you'll be. I have insane will power, cold turkeyed high dose benzo withdrawals, did year long recoveries, quit opiates CT, quit opiates again tapering, lost everything, got it all back and if i don't pay attention, i slip pretty easy into massive drug binges.

I understand your empathy for others but for us addicts, realize that it is our own doing, we know fully well the pain we bring on ourselves (and even others) and despite the lows, the highs are sometimes actually worth it and sometimes i realize they aren't worth it and make actual changes. Nevertheless i do get caught up. I know others just aren't like this but just in case you may be, always keep stock of yourself and you'll be good. Don't want to sound all preachy, just hope these words may give some insight into why someone with full knowledge of the pain/misery/desperation of addiction would still go into it, even into full blown polydrug addiction, despite knowing better. The sad reality is that i function better cycling drugs than i do when i'm sober, in my mind, my relationships, in school and at work, i just have to make sure things stay in control at all times and that i have people to watch me for signs of psychosis, poor decision making and other related issues like engaging in risky behavior.

sorry for OT

 

[Jktm]

Long meth post is long.....

I can't read all of that, but I'll answer the question presented in the title lmao.

It depends on which way you're looking at it.

Opioids are pretty benign to the body in every way possible, but they will cause physical dependence.

Stimulants will only cause psychological dependence and depending on which stimulant you're using will cause desensitization to dopamine receptors. Amphetamines in particular are very neurotoxic (especially methamphetamine) to dopamine receptors.

It is often very hard to overdose on stimulants with the exception of cocaine; whereas, it is far more common to overdose on opioids.