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What is human nature? v. And are we innately evil?

In more ways than one. One is to want to be the boss and the other to feel so scared they need a boss to feel safe. The second being the more frequent IMO. For myself I never wanted to be impose my will on others and I never needed a boss to tell me what to do. Not an easy path in such a world as this.
 
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^^ It's certainly harder for many people like us. I'm the same way, I don't need someone telling me what to do and believe, and I also have absolutely no desire to accumulate power over others, to be "the boss". I was a boss one time when I ran a painting business for a year and it didn't jive with me, hiring and firing, telling people what to do, etc.

I've been ruminating over human nature a lot lately, specifically why it is that some people seem to have a sociopathic drive towards control, whether it's those who seek to become absolute rulers over others, or those who seek to accumulate wealth infinitely at any cost well beyond what any person could possibly need for a hundred lifetimes. Both of these types I feel are the expression of the innate flaw in the human race. Though the majority of people are good at heart (if perhaps sheep-like in their seeking for someone else to guide them), there are always those who seek to subjugate others for their own ends. These types, unfortunately, are the ones generally attracted to positions of power and are in the best position to gain that power, because it fits with their personalities. And it's people like that who are fucking everything up for the rest of us. And these days, because of our level of technology, they are also fucking up the planet itself. Our species has a long history of conquest and war among ourselves and also, before we wiped them out, the other human-like species living concurrently like the neanderthals and denisovans. I think this long genetic history of violence and power-seeking has made an indelible impression on our species, one that I hope we can grow out of. But we're certainly not there yet, if we will ever get there.
 
I'd like to see your evidence for this.
.

Follow the link above and you will have your evidence.

Further to that link. We have collectively pulled a full billion over the poverty line in the last 20 odd years and demographers say we will do the same for another billion in the next 20 years.

Regards
DL
 
more likely, our fatal flaw is our hierarchical nature, the need know who's boss.

That hierarchical nature is what has us seek the fittest of us.

Should we end that search and stop doing what our instincts are telling us to do?

Would cooperation without competition for the top position, in terms of fitness, not end man's evolution and force extinction on us?

I think it might.

From what I know of evolution, it cannot exist in us without both cooperation and competition.

Regards
DL
 
In more ways than one. One is to want to be the boss and the other to feel so scared they need a boss to feel safe. The second being the more frequent IMO. For myself I never wanted to be impose my will on others and I never needed a boss to tell me what to do. Not an easy path in such a world as this.

Without a top dog, the pack could not exist.

Regards
DL
 
According to some anthropologists, there was a time when early man living in the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East found themselves with a source of abundance. They found naturally growing wheat and rye and mild climate. Game was abundant. They remained hunter gatherers but settled in the area in permanent settlements of small bands of humans. A man gathering wheat and rye for four weeks when it was ripe could feed a family of four for a year along with hunting and other gathering. The interesting thing was that they were egalitarian likely due to abundance of resources. There was no headman or leader or religious leaders. There was also no warfare due to very low populations and abundant resources. IMO if ever there was a Paradise of sorts on earth for man that was it. It lasted until climate change and lost resources fucked it all up.
 
Hierarchy is Detrimental for Human Cooperation

Studies of animal behavior consistently demonstrate that the social environment impacts cooperation, yet the effect of social dynamics has been largely excluded from studies of human cooperation. Here, we introduce a novel approach inspired by nonhuman primate research to address how social hierarchies impact human cooperation. Participants competed to earn hierarchy positions and then could cooperate with another individual in the hierarchy by investing in a common effort. Cooperation was achieved if the combined investments exceeded a threshold, and the higher ranked individual distributed the spoils unless control was contested by the partner. Compared to a condition lacking hierarchy, cooperation declined in the presence of a hierarchy due to a decrease in investment by lower ranked individuals. Furthermore, hierarchy was detrimental to cooperation regardless of whether it was earned or arbitrary. These findings mirror results from nonhuman primates and demonstrate that hierarchies are detrimental to cooperation. However, these results deviate from nonhuman primate findings by demonstrating that human behavior is responsive to changing hierarchical structures and suggests partnership dynamics that may improve cooperation. This work introduces a controlled way to investigate the social influences on human behavior, and demonstrates the evolutionary continuity of human behavior with other primate species.
 
According to some anthropologists, there was a time when early man living in the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East found themselves with a source of abundance. They found naturally growing wheat and rye and mild climate. Game was abundant. They remained hunter gatherers but settled in the area in permanent settlements of small bands of humans. A man gathering wheat and rye for four weeks when it was ripe could feed a family of four for a year along with hunting and other gathering. The interesting thing was that they were egalitarian likely due to abundance of resources. There was no headman or leader or religious leaders. There was also no warfare due to very low populations and abundant resources. IMO if ever there was a Paradise of sorts on earth for man that was it. It lasted until climate change and lost resources fucked it all up.

All groups, regardless of size, always have a chief and usually a shaman.

No society that I know of was not a hierarchical society.

What screwed up the Middle East, IMO, was the advent of the Bronze age. Before that, our weapons were to light for man against man fighting and that is why we do not see fortified cities before the Bronze age.

Our love of war and reliance on the military has led and demanded new science ever since. Strange to think that without war, we might not have made the great leaps in scientific progress that we have made.

Regards
DL
 

All primate species have a hierarch and they have not gone extinct so to say that the way they have evolved is damaging them is foolish.

A hierarchy and competition is the only way to determine who the fittest is and being the fittest is the goal we all instinctively seek.

To end our hierarchy and competition would likely earn us extinction.

Regards
DL
 
Sorry for the scarcity guys, I'm in the process of moving. Should be done come end of business monday.

Moving is the most evil thing on earth. Family of six and soooo much godforsaken stuff.
 
All primate species have a hierarch and they have not gone extinct so to say that the way they have evolved is damaging them is foolish.

A hierarchy and competition is the only way to determine who the fittest is and being the fittest is the goal we all instinctively seek.

To end our hierarchy and competition would likely earn us extinction.

Regards
DL

who died and made you Darwin? support that
 
I think you are correct. As I posted elsewhere there was a time in human history when humans were egalitarian and we are part of the primate group.
 
^As much as I agree, it is reasonable to say humans have been hierarchical for much longer than not.

Of course, most of this means little for modern humans. We didn't evolve under conditions at all like the lives we lead, yet still have all associated instincts/structures. Our urge towards hierarchy is likely what caused us to invent god, i.e. the ultimate alpha male.
 
agree to an extent. I personally from some research believe we invented god to help gain some control of the forces of nature which were not well understood in early times.
 
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