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What ever happened to PCP?

SuperPsych said:
Unfortunately I'm a bit of a nerdy white kid from 20+ miles outside of the city in the suberbs with no vehicle. No friends in the city, although if I ever meet someone at a show I'll try to stay in contact. I'm in the Portland, OR area and I've never heard of PCP use even from old veterans, unless they're talking about their time growing up in California. Wouldn't surprise me if there's some in Seattle. There's probably some in Portland somewhere but its a rarity. I've heard of it in LA and San Diego. My internet friend who uses it a lot says he usually finds it in Kansas City and of course its known to be in D.C. Guess people in Portland are content with the Meth, Benzos and Fentanyl
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You could travel or learn to use the dark net markets safely and wait until it pops up again on one of those markets, or with an RC dealer.

AlsoTapered said:
The cop really knows his chemistry AND re-enforces my point that the Chinese will ship the Grignard IN diethyl ether but simply label it as 'diethyl ether'.
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I've been thinking about this since you said it to me a few months ago. It makes sense, and I think you hit the nail on the head. That must be what's going on and it's been that way for many years I'm guessing. Muy interesante.

Thirty L of toluene – yeah that will light up the night a bit, so to speak. It is a precursor to TNT after all. Well, it was in the name of producing 2C-I, which is a noble quest as 2C-I is pure 🔥 on the mountain.

AlsoTapered said:
The cop also knows that COOKS are the muppets who make this stuff. Real chemists are paid to show them how... which is why REAL chemists are almost never caught.
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Almost… Greed, letting down one's guard, and people running their mouths / snitches all lie out there like so many buried landmines. It can be treacherous. I wish things didn't have to be this high stakes, but such is the world.

FuckinAcidMan said:
[3-MeO-PCP] is better [than PCP] by far
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That's an interesting opinion. Idk, to me, I see them as different. PCP really takes my head into these long, elaborate alternate history stories from another universe similar to ours, but, for me, these alternate worlds are fixed somewhere around the mid 20th century (style-wise) and typically involve a world that is in a state of World War similar to WWII. There's a lot of art deco, a lot of gothic & Anglo-Saxon architecture as well. Mixed into this is a sprawling Neo Tokyo replete with biker gangs, parallax cityscapes, and sinister subplots of the Akira persuasion. There's a touch of steampunk and a bit of Lovecraftian cosmic horror. It feels qualitatively grittier than, say, 3-MeO-PCP and 3-HO-PCP, the former being more psychedelic and visual and the latter having this wonderful body high euphoric sensation that accompanies its psychedelic dissociative effects, perhaps owing to its opioid receptor activity in addition to its primary action as an NMDA receptor antagonist.

TimTim1993 said:
How is 3 Meo PCP compared to regular PCP
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If they were Frank Miller graphic novels, 3-MeO-PCP would be the movie 300 while PCP would be Sin City.

If they were Quentin Tarantino movies, 3-MeO-PCP would be Kill Bill vol. 1 and PCP would be Pulp Fiction. And 3-HO-PCP would be Kill Bill vol. 2. Ya feel me?
 
unodelacosa said:
You could travel or learn to use the dark net markets safely and wait until it pops up again on one of those markets, or with an RC dealer.


I've been thinking about this since you said it to me a few months ago. It makes sense, and I think you hit the nail on the head. That must be what's going on and it's been that way for many years I'm guessing. Muy interesante.

Thirty L of toluene – yeah that will light up the night a bit, so to speak. It is a precursor to TNT after all. Well, it was in the name of producing 2C-I, which is a noble quest as 2C-I is pure 🔥 on the mountain.


Almost… Greed, letting down one's guard, and people running their mouths / snitches all lie out there like so many buried landmines. It can be treacherous. I wish things didn't have to be this high stakes, but such is the world.


That's an interesting opinion. Idk, to me, I see them as different. PCP really takes my head into these long, elaborate alternate history stories from another universe similar to ours, but, for me, these alternate worlds are fixed somewhere around the mid 20th century (style-wise) and typically involve a world that is in a state of World War similar to WWII. There's a lot of art deco, a lot of gothic & Anglo-Saxon architecture as well. Mixed into this is a sprawling Neo Tokyo replete with biker gangs, parallax cityscapes, and sinister subplots of the Akira persuasion. There's a touch of steampunk and a bit of Lovecraftian cosmic horror. It feels qualitatively grittier than, say, 3-MeO-PCP and 3-HO-PCP, the former being more psychedelic and visual and the latter having this wonderful body high euphoric sensation that accompanies its psychedelic dissociative effects, perhaps owing to its opioid receptor activity in addition to its primary action as an NMDA receptor antagonist.


If they were Frank Miller graphic novels, 3-MeO-PCP would be the movie 300 while PCP would be Sin City.

If they were Quentin Tarantino movies, 3-MeO-PCP would be Kill Bill vol. 1 and PCP would be Pulp Fiction. And 3-HO-PCP would be Kill Bill vol. 2. Ya feel me?
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Holy shit your imagination sounds cool as fuck you wanna be friends? lmfao.
 
TimTim1993 said:
PCP is still super popular here in NY, we get the PCP soaked into Mint leaves and dipped cigarettes
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Yessir, those dippers will knock your dick in the dirt, too.

come_unity said:
PCP is and has been on Vegas and socal ever since I moved out here. Doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon!
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I've known about Socal for a long time, but you're saying it's in LV, too? That kinda surprises me a little bit.
 
Is dizocilpine a controlled drug in the US.

The Erowid reports so often say 'wow - MUCH more intense than PCP' or words to that effect.

Doesn't sound much fun to me, but MXE was enough for me. I guess 3-MeO PCP will be much like MXE.... just MORESO.
 
TimTim1993 said:
How is 3 Meo PCP compared to regular PCP
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Theres a trip report on the psychonaut wiki where someone was hearing police sirens, police on megaphones, voices and such cause he took too much, I've never smoked 3 meo pcp, but on normal PCP I was being chased by demons down the street at 3 in the morning, it was honestly (this isn't a joke) the most fun I've had on a drug, maybe thats why people shouldn't smoke PCP
 
AlsoTapered said:
Is dizocilpine a controlled drug in the US.
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I don't think so. I think Merck discovered it in the 80s but never pushed it through as a pharmaceutical product due to Olney's lesions, long half-life, and poor safety profile, especially when there are more suiting NMDA-receptor antagonists, like Ketamine, widely available.

But it doesn't sound fun to me either. MXE was the best, though I also love 3-HO-PCP. MXE is very euphoric in my opinion.

TimTim1993 said:
PCP is still super popular here in NY, we get the PCP soaked into Mint leaves and dipped cigarettes
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Idk about super popular, but yeah it's definitely still in the hoods of NYC. Never in powder form though. Angel dust can be hard to come by. You had asked how 3-MeO-PCP compares to PCP – in my opinion they're very similar, and I love both drugs immensely, though I think I prefer the effects of 3-HO-PCP to either. Also mind you: I'm comparing two different ROAs here: I usually smoke sherm but I insufflate 3-MeO-PCP, 3-MeO-PCE, 3-HO-PCP, 3-HO-PCE, MXE, and FXE among others.
 
I don't think dizocilpine was a long-term project. I've seen this with a number of psychoactive drugs. From the publications associated with some drugs you realize that, in truth, a medicinal chemist recognized (using dreiding models) the pharmacophore of previous ligands and without much trial-and-error, can produce an active.

I honestly don't know if they ever truly sought to develop it into a medicine but, rather, recognized that they COULD patent a new class and do so just in case that in the upcoming years they do wish to further develop.

I talked to the guy who is named as inventor of the reversed ester of tilidine. Their are NO associated papers. I managed to track him down and he explained that using dreiding models alone he was confident that his drug that would more or less be identical to tilidine could be patented.

It seems a crazy way to proceed in the 21st century but back then, if a senior developer had a 'quick' project which would at least ensure their company held the patent and therefore had the choice to further develop later, that's what they did.

I knew Dan Lednicer who was the senior lead of Upjohn's drug discovery team and quite a few things were developed because the team had high confidence that they could find a new class for a low cost. They did as well. Alprazolam was the only success, I might add.
 
PCP. Whooo boy. Most who were on the north east coast of the US 40 years ago know that PCP was everywhere. Keep in mind in the late 70's mushrooms were not as abundant as they are in 2023. People were just learning to cultivate. But now worries, people did buy store bought mushrooms and sprinkled with PCP. I saw that happen to someone once. Also PCP was all over. It was a drug most of us wanted to get away from but came back in different forms. The funniest was "crystal T". Was suppose to be synthetic THC. There were a few other funny names that PCP came back as. But it really was all over and most people I know were not interested. Mushrooms were more sought and rarer back then. Thank God in 2023 they are all over now.

It was not until the early 80's where I saw people selling genuine mushrooms at Grateful Dead concerts.
 
JackARoe said:
PCP. Whooo boy. Most who were on the north east coast of the US 40 years ago know that PCP was everywhere. Keep in mind in the late 70's mushrooms were not as abundant as they are in 2023. People were just learning to cultivate. But now worries, people did buy store bought mushrooms and sprinkled with PCP. I saw that happen to someone once. Also PCP was all over. It was a drug most of us wanted to get away from but came back in different forms. The funniest was "crystal T". Was suppose to be synthetic THC. There were a few other funny names that PCP came back as. But it really was all over and most people I know were not interested. Mushrooms were more sought and rarer back then. Thank God in 2023 they are all over now.

It was not until the early 80's where I saw people selling genuine mushrooms at Grateful Dead concerts.
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That's all I ever saw PCP sold as, "T" for THC. Little tabs like acid in high school (early 70's) and powder later. Everyone knew it was PCP from the get go.
The tabs gave many less train wrecks since the risk of doing too much was greatly reduced.
Never had PCP mushrooms, but I got acid mushrooms a couple times. People were always surprised I could tell the difference.
 
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Mr. Krinkle said:
yea alsotapered knows what happened to it

he knows everything
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Can't tell if sarcastic, but FWIW I've learned some good shit talking to @AlsoTapered, more than most people I encounter online. In particular the insights to some of the aminorex-class compounds, and knowledge on arylcyclohexylamines production telescoping has been much appreciated.

AlsoTapered said:
back then, if a senior developer had a 'quick' project which would at least ensure their company held the patent and therefore had the choice to further develop later, that's what they did.
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Do you consider this no longer to be the case? I thought that was still fairly normal.

AlsoTapered said:
I knew Dan Lednicer
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Dan was the man. I have a few of his books in my library.

AlsoTapered said:
Alprazolam was the only success, I might add.
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I believe they had success with Halcion (triazolam). Before the Pfizer acquisition they were also behind Motrin and Rogaine among other products.
 
I carefully studied all of the papers and patents concerning PCP (and it's homologues) and then ketamine (and it's homologues) and one of the most interesting details I learnt was that the ortho substitution seen in ketamine (the -Cl) and the meta substitution seen in others (like the -OH or OCH3) seen in both PCP and ketamine homologues sit OPPOSITE to eachother.

In fact, the final derivative of ketamine that was patented was the 2-chloro-5-methoxy derivative. Patents usually try to cover many compounds but in this case the only covered four compounds. All four were just different amines (N-methyl, N-ethyl, N-isopropyl and piperidinyl).

I believe 3-OH PCP was discovered in the 1960s but for medical purposes (at least) it didn't seem to have any advantages although in retrospect, I imagine it was investigated to see if analogues which were metabolized faster actually reduced the duration of action.

I'm not sure if anyone has m-OH PCP enough to know what that -OH does. If memory serves, related compounds displayed KOR affinity. Now KOR agonists are trippy in their own right but can produce dysphoria BUT PCP is such a potent dopamine reuptake inhibitor, I presume it overcomes this issue.

If memory serves, m-OH PCP was more potent than PCP in animal models. It's quite a bit more complex to make so I wonder if it's still legal in the US and/or China? Does anyone know?

I've been told that ring-substituted derivatives of roticyclidine are much less stimulating and better suited to 'psychonauts' who wish to try... well... everything.
 
unodelacosa said:
Can't tell if sarcastic, but FWIW I've learned some good shit talking to @AlsoTapered, more than most people I encounter online. In particular the insights to some of the aminorex-class compounds, and knowledge on arylcyclohexylamines production telescoping has been much appreciated.
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yea he's alright - im just bustin his chops

kinda like i do to you sometimes - but we cool right?


yea yea yea

:group hug:
 

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Take a look at the above.

Note that it's an ENTIRE patent by Parke Davis devoted to just TWO compounds - almost unheard of.

It's just 5-methoxy ketamine i.e. it has the -OCH3 of MXE (CMXE?) and the -Cl of ketamine OR 5-hydroxy ketamine (COXM?).

Why just two compound? My GUESS is that they found something special and wanted to ensure that nobody else got to it first.

Now, people like fastandbulbous (who, after all came up with MXE) spotted that generally speaking the N-ethyl homologues of ketamine derivatives are more potent... but Parke Davis didn't even cover that.

All told, it's an unexpected find.

It's potency will be higher than MXE but I can find NO papers regarding this compound so it's actual potency is unknown. would suggest, however, that just as Shulgin confirmed that ring-substitution of PEAs to engender optimal 5HT2a affinity required a 2,5-dimethoxy motif and that for the arylcyclohexylamines, 2-chloro-5-methoxy MAY achieve a similar result.

Sadly their aren't any papers from later than the late 1960s that exhaustively tested the affinity of ring-substituted derivatives of PCP. In that case the meta -OH that has been mentioned was the most potent although the meta -OCH3 wasn't significantly less potent. But sadly, the researchers didn't attempt disubstitution... or, rather, the data was never made public.

I certainly believe that the arylcyclohexylamine scaffold is the NMDA antagonist of the 5HT2a phenylethylamines. Other, more complex scaffolds are known, but since we haven't explored this one yet, we haven't got such a clear QSAR.
 
Yeah. I e actually heard from some very experienced chemists and they told me that PCP is a good drug and that it just got a bad rap with one rapper cutting his manhood off while high on it and ppl acting crazy and stuff.

But he said used responsibly that it’s a good drug.

Yeah. Basically just said the media ruined the drug.

Isn’t that the case with most drugs though? Almost all have a use and it’s always the dose is the poison.
 
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