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Pharmacology What Does Reindeer Urine, Gabapentin and Pregabalin Have in Common?

This thread contains discussion about a Pharmacology-related topic
4DQSAR

4DQSAR

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Today someone asked me about their previous prescription (gabapentin) with their new prescription (pregabalin) and beyond potency, I wasn't entirely sure.

But what DID catch my eye was the fact that in all three cases, around 98% of the active is excreted unchanged in urine.

Now that's one 'Pepsi Challange' I would take, but eveb before knowing this, I always preferred compounds that undergo ADRE rather than ADME... because that M can differ between individuals.

I just thought I would mention it in case someone is about to go out on a first date. Novel smalltalk I agree, but I bet you £1 that no date could PREDICT that talking point ;-)
 
4DQSAR said:
But what DID catch my eye was the fact that in all three cases, around 98% of the active is excreted unchanged in urine.
Click to expand...
Makes me wonder how long someone could sustain a decent blood concentration of these compounds by constantly drinking all of their urine…
 
TheLightBringer said:
Makes me wonder how long someone could sustain a decent blood concentration of these compounds by constantly drinking all of their urine…
Click to expand...

With any of the three compounds mentioned, the answer is almost certainly 'yes'.

I believe muscimol is traditionally used this way. I don't think it's common knowledge that the other two will behave in the same manner.

I'm uncertain what happens to that other 2%. could be it's excreted in other ways, could be that a bit of metabolism takes place.

I'm not about to test the theory. I am aware that the electrolyte content will tend to speed up dehydration (as opposed to drinking nothing). So if you must - drink other fluids as well ;-)
 
4DQSAR said:
I'm not about to test the theory. I am aware that the electrolyte content will tend to speed up dehydration (as opposed to drinking nothing). So if you must - drink other fluids as well ;-)
Click to expand...
Hahaha Im not to keen on testing the theory either, but I wouldnt be surprised if someone out there has already done it. Ive heard of people drinking meth piss to recycle it and the excretion of meth in urine is way lower
 
TheLightBringer said:
Hahaha Im not to keen on testing the theory either, but I wouldnt be surprised if someone out there has already done it. Ive heard of people drinking meth piss to recycle it and the excretion of meth in urine is way lower
Click to expand...

I can only believe that with (meth)amphetamine, it's almost certainly a placebo effect.

I was only looking at the compounds because someone asked me how much harder it would be to produce 4-methylpregabalin (that is several times more potent than the parent). I noted that the extreme low price was because most of it is made via biosynthesis in India. Why India? I suggest because the ambient temperature happens to be ideal. That's why L-PAC is (was?) mostly produced in India.

CC L-PAC - surprised nobody has noted that if methcathinone is the target, L-PAC is the immediate precursor.
 
4DQSAR said:
Today someone asked me about their previous prescription (gabapentin) with their new prescription (pregabalin) and beyond potency, I wasn't entirely sure.

But what DID catch my eye was the fact that in all three cases, around 98% of the active is excreted unchanged in urine.

Now that's one 'Pepsi Challange' I would take, but eveb before knowing this, I always preferred compounds that undergo ADRE rather than ADME... because that M can differ between individuals.

I just thought I would mention it in case someone is about to go out on a first date. Novel smalltalk I agree, but I bet you £1 that no date could PREDICT that talking point ;-)
Click to expand...

What is "pepsi challenge"?

So if I run out of Gabapentin, I could drink my urine to avoid withdrawal? :/
At least I'm diabetic so my piss would be sweet lol
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
What is "pepsi challenge"?

So if I run out of Gabapentin, I could drink my urine to avoid withdrawal? :/
At least I'm diabetic so my piss would be sweet lol
Click to expand...

Well, if the academic papers are to be believed, at least 98% of any quantity of gabapentin or pregabalin consumed are excreted unchanged in the urine.

I wasn't being entirely serious when I mentioned 'The Pepsi Challange'. I simply used it to underline the fact that many papers give almost identical figures.
 
Brb, Asking gpt to design a reindeer piss distillery.

For gabapentin and pregabalin specifically, they’re tough—biodegrading slowly in aerobic systems, with half-lives of 8-10 days, so recovery yields might hit 9% at best with solvents like ethyl acetate.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Biotransformation of pregabalin in surface water matrices and the occurrence of transformation products in the aquatic environment - comparison to the structurally related gabapentin - PubMed

The biodegradability of the anticonvulsant pregabalin (PGB) was studied in laboratory incubation experiments in contact with water/sediment systems under different redox conditions. PGB was degraded by biological processes under aerobic conditions reaching half-lives of 8 to 10 d, while...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Apparently it was feasible enough to recycle the penicillin from piss in Germany.

Reindeer wise I assume they are talking about single doses.

So we just need to saturate the reindeer with pregablin while dehydrating them? To eventually get slush that apparently isn’t even feasible to isolate in Lapland.

I always wondered about those stories of people having trailers full of meth piss lmao.

It’s like leaking boof water, microfiltering it and banging it instead.
 


pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pregabalin pharmacology and its relevance to clinical practice - PubMed

Pregabalin is a potent ligand for the alpha-2-delta subunit of voltage-gated calcium channels in the central nervous system that exhibits potent anticonvulsant, analgesic, and anxiolytic activity in a range of animal models. In addition, pregabalin has been shown to be a highly effective...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
I corrected it, but then it said this.

BTW how do I quote long texts. There are enough pages of nstimposts already.


### No Mistake Here

The article you shared actually backs up what was discussed—pregabalin is excreted virtually unchanged, with less than 2% metabolized, meaning about 98% passes into urine as is. Recent studies confirm around 90-98% unchanged excretion for pregabalin and similar for gabapentin, so no contradiction at all.[1][2][3][4]

### Article Breakdown

This 2004 review highlights pregabalin's quick absorption and renal clearance without much liver involvement, ideal for predictable dosing. It notes the 6.3-hour half-life and no protein binding, which keeps it simple for clinical use, but emphasizes kidney adjustments for safety. Real-life example: In epilepsy trials, this led to fast efficacy starting day two, without food or drug interactions complicating things.[5][1]

### Ties to Urine Recovery

Your link reinforces why extraction from urine is theoretically possible but still impractical at home or scale—high unchanged amounts don't overcome the mess of contaminants or low yields without lab gear. For instance, hospital waste recycling worked for penicillin historically, but pregabalin's stability doesn't make it a go-to for that today. Actionable step: If managing prescriptions, track doses with a doc to avoid renal tweaks; no need for DIY recovery hacks.[6][7][8][9]

### Quick Advice

Stick to official sources like PubMed for pharmacology dives—they're gold for your research interests. If exploring benzo cross-tapers or similar, cross-check with recent reviews for updates.[3][10]

Sources
[1] Pregabalin pharmacology and its relevance to clinical ... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15315511/
[2] Pregabalin's Non-Renal Excretion Percentage https://www.droracle.ai/articles/402901/what-percentage-of
[3] Pregabalin: latest safety evidence and clinical implications for ... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4110876/
[4] LYRICA, INN-Pregabalin - European Commission https://ec.europa.eu/health/documents/community-register/2005/200507089906/anx_9906_en.pdf
[5] Pharmacotherapy Update | Pregabalin (Lyrica®):Part I https://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/medicalpubs/pharmacy/septoct2005/pregabalin.htm
[6] Pregabalin: Uses, Interactions, Mechanism of Action https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB00230
[7] Rational dosing of gabapentin and pregabalin in chronic ... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5291335/
[8] What is the clearance of Pregabalin (Lyrica) in patients with ... https://droracle.ai/articles/61102/...rica-in-patients-with-impaired-renal-function
[9] We Used to Recycle Drugs From Patients' Urine https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/we-used-recycle-drugs-patients-urine-180953789/
[10] Determination of Pregabalin in Tissues and Fluids by ... https://www.probiologists.com/article/determination-of-pregabalin-in-tissues-and-fluids-by-using-gc
[11] An Analysis of Data From 6 Phase I Studies https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9083487/
[12] Gabapentin, a human therapeutic medication and an ... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9531455/
[13] Gabapentin Detection In Urine Drug Screening https://consensus.app/questions/gabapentin-detection-in-urine-drug-screening/
[14] Pharmacokinetic of Gabapentin 600 mg Tablet in Thai ... http://www.jmatonline.com/PDF/583-589-PB-95-4.pdf
[15] Pregabalin - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/veterinary-science-and-veterinary-medicine/pregabalin
[16] Clinical Pharmacokinetics of Gabapentin After ... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149291811008393
[17] Gabapentin bioavailability: effect of dose and frequency ... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0920121198000205
[18] Journal of Pharmaceutical Research https://www.opastpublishers.com/ope...ne-concentrations-of-gabapentin-neurontin.pdf
[19] Bioavailability of gabapentin https://www.page-meeting.org/page/page2005/PAGE2005P68.pdf



But still, it seems like you are sol if you expected powder
 
Loquacious said:
Yes. I’m just sad that I’ll never see a clandestine pee distillery documentary :(
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Well, at $82/Kg, pregabalin is just about as cheap as it gets.

At that price you could probably make competitively priced urinal cakes from it.

I mean, I don't think many things shout 'not intended for human consuption' louder than a urinal cake. Although I admit, the word 'cake' might cause confusion. Maybe urinal puck, just to stop that potential issue turning up...
 
There is no drug on earth good enough to make me drink an animals piss...if it don't come directly from Mistress, I don't want it (kidding)

Maybe if I was in like SEVERE opioid withdrawal and it was the only way out, I could drink human pee....but I just couldn't from an animal. Not why I feel like ANIMAL piss is so much worse, though.

Isn't Reindeer Urine just a very mid hallucinogen/deliriant, anyway?
 
I really was just using that 'law of comedy' that demands three things, one of them being the odd one out. Hence the 'Pepsi Challange'.

I was given to understand that the reason certain isolated groups consumed reindeer urine was because it's then the reindeer that has to metabolize the ibotenic acid (somewhat toxic).
 
YES
YES
Happy that at least one other person had this idea seeing the excretion rate. How this isn't a more widely discussed topic baffles me.

My previous post on the matter (without much success from the public too):
OrconectesLimosus

Gabapentinoids Thread 'Did anybody try to exploit this scientific fact to achieve perpetual motion?'

oxmvrw.PNG

Drinking pregabalin piss juice, i mean. It's a 4000% increase in efficiency.
 
I promise if I ever relapse back into drug addiction and enter a manic episode ill take a simultaneous megadose of pregabalin, gabapentin, and amanita muscaria while drinking ALL of my urine for a week straight to see if I can remain high 24/7 while documenting the experience 😂

Id do it for you guys and for science 🫶🏼❤️🔥🔥
 
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