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what does make someone a man ?

>>By the way... keep in mind that although I think man and woman are ultimately an illusion, I do not claim that this illusion does not exist. It does exist, and it is very real - and the fact that it is taken for granted makes it more and more of an illusion. . .>>

teh reification. :)

>>Do you have anything to back this up? Our base sexual instincts as man and woman are very different. Men want to impregnate as many woman as possible, to spread his genes, while women want the man with the best genes. You don;t hear about men walking to their cars with keys in hand because theyre terrified of being raped.>>

These are post-hoc arguments used to naturalize (and sometimes justify) present cultural forms.

ebola
 
ebola? said:
These are post-hoc arguments used to naturalize (and sometimes justify) present cultural forms.
Click to expand...
The example I used may be, but the point I was trying to get across is that gender does play a big role in our psychology. There have been many studies which have confirmed the differences between male and female brains, and how they work. While asking what makes someone a "manly-man" may be reification, there is a biological basis for behavior which is influenced by gender.
 
>>The example I used may be, but the point I was trying to get across is that gender does play a big role in our psychology. There have been many studies which have confirmed the differences between male and female brains, and how they work. While asking what makes someone a "manly-man" may be reification, there is a biological basis for behavior which is influenced by gender.>>

But biology itself is influenced by socialization and subsequent experiences and patterns of behavior. We are not in a position to discern what of gender is innate.

ebola
 
Exactly, the relationship between biology and behaviour is like a chicken-or-egg thing.

But I will repeat again - the point you seem to be missing, LMNOP, is that biological sex and the ascription of "gender" are separate and completely arbitrary.

It is just like when you have a stone - one person thinks its a god and worships it, another thinks its just an obstacle in the way of a road they want to build. Neither of them is correct, since the stone in itself is neither this nor that (or, it is both at the same time - which has the same effect).
 
Do you mean biology of the brain or evolution is influenced by those things? I'm assuming you mean the brain, but a newborn's brain is wired in a certain way, as a result of its male or female genes. I know we can't determine what of gender is innate, my point is that at least a part of it is. I don't know if I've explicitly stated it here, but I agree that a large portion of being a "man" IS a social construct. I just think thats not the whole story.
edit: for ebola
 
>>Do you mean biology of the brain or evolution is influenced by those things?>>

Both, actually.

>> I'm assuming you mean the brain, but a newborn's brain is wired in a certain way, as a result of its male or female genes.>>

That's true, along with hormonal exposure in the womb. However:
1. The behavioral consequences of these differences in infants is either unclear or nonexistent.
2. In very early childhood, there is a massive restructuring of the brain (involving mostly the culling of axons) to facilitate learning/adaptation to the environment. This means that the consequences of initial gender differences later in life is unclear.
3. Later in life, physiology is confounded with culture.

I would also be surprised if none of gender were influenced by sex, but we're not in a position to tell right now.

ebola
 
You guys take things too seriously. If i was trying to dampen the mood id do it. but that was an honest statement. I had no idea what he meant or what precisely was trying to be accomplished. and i am silly, IS THAT A CRIME?!

thankyou. and i believe a man is to take responsibility for ones actions and to have strong moral guidance. where they can do the right thing and not do things for greed. I think a man is to be aware.

and i dont wanna get into women vs men because frankly not everyone treats themselves the same. If life were perfect women would respect themselves and men would take up basket weaving. either way neither of those things are too pertinent in society so im just gonna hope women respect themselves so i dont have to balance my act on a damn pin.

being a man is being respectful.

[/end rant]
 
And none of this really has anything to do with helping find the answer to the original posters question.

to me his question was extremely clear and yall are turning it into something totally different.
 
lacey k said:
And none of this really has anything to do with helping find the answer to the original posters question.

to me his question was extremely clear and yall are turning it into something totally different.
Click to expand...

The interesting thing is that you did not offer a "clear" answer to this "clear" question yet ;).
 
To me a man is someone who is strong enough to know that its OK to respect a woman, yet not a pussy that gets run over by a strong woman.

Someone who can man up and take responsibility for whatever he does.

Who takes the hand that life dealt them and tries to make the best out of it.

Who dont give up when the times get hard.

Who aint afraid to throw down and fight if he gotta.

Who dont spend more time in the bathroom getting ready than a goddamn woman.

Who respects animals and treats them well.

Who aint afraid to feel pain and admit it, but strong enough to know that there is a way out of the suffering if you keep ridin, and dont whine about it like a self-pitying little bitch.

Who can be the strong side of a woman if she wants him to. Who aint scared to be a little masculine and be the one to hold her and support her. But who can accept her love and comfort when HE needs it too.

Who will work for his money, no matter what the job may be.

Who will put honor in his life and live honorably.

Who will do what he gotta do and do it with strength and dignity.

Who can be REAL.

Who could teach his son how to live in those ways and be confident that his offspring will also become a man.

And,

i cant forget, someone who does not wear gay-ass preppy pink shirts and dress like a metrosexual.

thats it for me...
 
Awesome, thank you. I am now very happy to announce that I am androgynous.

Sorry if I pick on you Lacey, I generally appreciate your posts, and I find it rather odd that you cannot question the idea of a man.
 
The ability to care for someone, to open up and let someone into their lives.

To protect the people he loves, to forgive and receive help when needed.
 
men from the boys

i agree with these point dude!
although id like to add that a real man can be masculine without asserting a agressively macho front.

separating the men from the boys:
> repect other peoples opinions even if you dont agree.
> strength of character (rather than self inflated ego and arrogance.)
> honesty (liars & and players are scum)
> ability to show love and affection
> ability to control anger & use only when necessary
> integrity & reliability & (be true to your word and there for your friends/family)
> ability to use your brain as well as your brawn.

masculity is not all about muscles and ego. i think thats where most people get it wrong.

i also think men have a built in instinct to protect.
(im more protective of my friends/family than i am of myself.)

really this arguement is about nature vs nurture. lets compare what manliness is to a city guy Vs. a country guy...:D

this is my first proper post.
cheers


lacey k said:
To me a man is someone who is strong enough to know that its OK to respect a woman, yet not a pussy that gets run over by a strong woman.

Someone who can man up and take responsibility for whatever he does.

Who takes the hand that life dealt them and tries to make the best out of it.

Who dont give up when the times get hard.

Who aint afraid to throw down and fight if he gotta.

Who dont spend more time in the bathroom getting ready than a goddamn woman.

Who respects animals and treats them well.

Who aint afraid to feel pain and admit it, but strong enough to know that there is a way out of the suffering if you keep ridin, and dont whine about it like a self-pitying little bitch.

Who can be the strong side of a woman if she wants him to. Who aint scared to be a little masculine and be the one to hold her and support her. But who can accept her love and comfort when HE needs it too.

Who will work for his money, no matter what the job may be.

Who will put honor in his life and live honorably.

Who will do what he gotta do and do it with strength and dignity.

Who can be REAL.

Who could teach his son how to live in those ways and be confident that his offspring will also become a man.

And,

i cant forget, someone who does not wear gay-ass preppy pink shirts and dress like a metrosexual.

thats it for me...
Click to expand...
 
ability to use your brain as well as your brawn.
Click to expand...

that might be a bit too much, when do smarts come into being a man? Also, why must a man use his brawn? Does he have to be strong?
 
TruthSpeaker1 said:
that might be a bit too much, when do smarts come into being a man? Also, why must a man use his brawn? Does he have to be strong?
Click to expand...


using both is better than neither. dont you agree...
"strong" as in muscleman?> no. i wrote the above to skew the common perception of physical strength = masculinity.

cheers
 
How would you know I dont take things seriously enough? are you imposing your opinion on me? :D

Hehe now that Im looking back I see that I wasnt impeccable with my word, and I am sorry. I figure when in rome.... Ive relaxed myself in comparison to how I can be/operate. I like this place, its just a place. Its not some sacred dimension where I have to control my every move and thought, its just a place where people get together and share the love of community etc. So no, my word was not flawless. and I apologize :P

DONT MAKE ME POINT!!

negativity is the way of the past dood
 
Flowingbeyond said:
How would you know I dont take things seriously enough? are you imposing your opinion on me?
Click to expand...
how would you know i take things too seriously? are you imposing your opinion on me?

did you even read what you wrote first time round?

perhaps you need to (really) read the four agreements this time? :)

alasdair
 
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