what do you think are the differences between recreational use/dependance and addicti

[Harambulus]

also is there a differences between dependence and recreational use since any kind of using a foreign substance is dependence of a kind isnt it rather than relying on your 'God Given Sobriety'?

Like these days, since im t total most of the time i find it really fucking boring most of the time as i have very little to look forward to. on the one hand i wonder if i should just be 'strong' and endure the boredom and learn to appreciate this 'straight' lifestyle or whether just taking something a cpl ties a year is ok- like mdma and a bit of weed.

I still havent found an answer bt i do know sobriety has been fucking boring the periods i do it and that im always 'waiting for the payoff' of life which never seems to materialise.

The way i currently see it is- taking drugs a cpl times a year and at least having a little pleasure now and then but feeling guilty and like a failure for using some foreign substances to enjoy life or on the other hand live in indefinite boredom and malcontent at at bleak and humdrum existence always moving on the treadmill with the fruit of life just being out of reach to touch.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

If you define dependence as use of any kind of substance than 99% of the world's population is dependent on drugs...

 

[pasha]

Recreational use of drugs has less major consequences as opposed to addiction or dependence. Dependence and addiction manifest themselves in negative symptoms that have more long term neurochemical, physiological, and psychological repercussions on the user.

Recreational use, psychological reinforcement, psychological dependence, psychological addiction, and physical dependence, all may lead to one another but are entirely different junctures of drug use.

 

[Harambulus]

if your are saying recreational use leads to all the others then your implying that any kind of use will over time lead down the road to fullfledged addiction hence any use at all would be deemed an inevitable decline into oblivion.

 

[Harambulus]

If you define dependence as use of any kind of substance than 99% of the world's population is dependent on drugs...

i wouldnt deny this was the case, my question is whether it is better not to have anything at all or not. ie is any use abuse? besides for medical purposes of course- not elabourate mental gymnastics of how getting loaded is 'medicinal' for 'spritual reasons' or w/e.

Not pointing fingers im asking myself as much as anyone as ive been at a crossroads for a long time withut having gained any insight int the matter.

for example i may be painfully bored at home and call up some dude for some weed and sit down lookign at rnadom things in my room and not be bored. or i could endure the boredom long enough to find some creative way not to be bored. it could be argued neither are better but the one which relied on least outside influence would be superior in practical terms no?

 

[RobotRipping]

any use is not abuse, that is absurd. What if you just broke your back and were IVd morphine? guess you'd be fucked then?

dependence and addiction are well defined already.

addiciton = negative consequences in your life despite the fact you are still using that particular drug or set of drugs

dependence = purely phyiscal, your body is used to a certain amount of a certain drug(s) in your body and will flip the fuck out if it doesn't have them.

recreational use is just using drugs or whatever for fun. Does that help?

I don't think you can say whether relying on cannabis for fun is any better than waiting around bored in your room by yourself. There is no better or worse in these situations. Why are you analyzing this to death? that's the biggest sign of addiction there is. I don't even think about these things and i'm highly dependent on benzos. I also recreationally use other drugs but don't really fall into the addiction category ie. i am functional in life.

 

[XThexXTank]

Recreational is using drugs to get fucked up n have fun.

Addiction is when yer body physically needs the drug and if ya don't get it you'll withdraw.

Dependence one step before addiction. Ya talke the drug almost everyday ya sorta do and don't need it but take it anywayn that just paves the road onto full addiction.

 

[Siccness909]

Well I'm a meth addict, I know that lol.

 

[Harambulus]

i analyze it to death cos i always think of 'logical conclusions' to nearly all my decisions in life.

i have this little saying i made to myself 'if you wouldnt do it all day every day why would you do it at all'. Now i dunno if this is the best thing to live by or not..

 

[Harambulus]

any use is not abuse, that is absurd. What if you just broke your back and were IVd morphine? guess you'd be fucked then?

Well I said in the op or one of them that unless its for medicine.

I spose the only one i am concerned with of them all is whether its justified recreationally or not. the mian thing in my mind is that the more you do something is the more pathways you make in your mind to do that behaviour in future. so each time you take a substance does it not take you clsoer and closer to dependence/addiction? not saying ti does but the quesiton i am posing and what im trying to figure out.

 

[LOGan1314]

I disagree that to be an addict you will go through withdrawl without the drug. It's really hard to define whether a person is a rec. user or an addict.

 

[Howzat?]

i analyze it to death cos i always think of 'logical conclusions' to nearly all my decisions in life.

Nothing logical about worrying about what Jesus or any other imaginary being thinks about your life. Except when you are lying naked playing with your self.

 

[pasha]

Well I said in the op or one of them that unless its for medicine.

I spose the only one i am concerned with of them all is whether its justified recreationally or not. the mian thing in my mind is that the more you do something is the more pathways you make in your mind to do that behaviour in future. so each time you take a substance does it not take you clsoer and closer to dependence/addiction? not saying ti does but the quesiton i am posing and what im trying to figure out.

You're asking us to outline for you whether or not your path of drug use will lead you to addiction. There are many variables that are biological/nature vs. nurture/behavioral that we could not define if we tried. You know your personality, it's your job to do the risk assessment.

 

[Harambulus]

please lord shiva help me on this lonesome path to salvation!!!

 

[alovesupreme]

simply put, recreational use is when you control the drugs, dependence is when the drugs control you. healthy drug use (imho) is all about having fun, exploring new states of mind, enriching your life, not blotting things out, running away, or trying to escape from reality. i don't think you should be at all guilty about getting high occasionally so long as you're responsible about it and it's not messing up your ability to lead a functional life.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

This is pretty much how I define them:

addiciton = negative consequences in your life despite the fact you are still using that particular drug or set of drugs

dependence = purely phyiscal, your body is used to a certain amount of a certain drug(s) in your body and will flip the fuck out if it doesn't have them.

recreational use is just using drugs or whatever for fun.

Although I would add with addiction there has to be a certain frequency of use, if someone uses a drug once a year despite the negative consequences I wouldn't consider that an addiction. And recreational use can be much more vague and harder to define, and there is overlap between recreational use, addiction and dependence of course.

Recreational is using drugs to get fucked up n have fun.

Addiction is when yer body physically needs the drug and if ya don't get it you'll withdraw.

Dependence one step before addiction. Ya talke the drug almost everyday ya sorta do and don't need it but take it anywayn that just paves the road onto full addiction.

^Actually I think addiction and dependence are generally considered the other way around. Like "addiction" means a mental addiction, where you don't necessarily get withdrawals when you stop, whereas "dependence" means a physiological/physical dependence, where you get withdrawals if you stop. You can have one without the other, or both at the same time. For example, I was physiologically dependent on antidepressants, because I got withdrawal symptoms when I quit, but I was not at all mentally addicted, (and hence it was a lot easier for me to stop than stopping something I was mentally addicted to). With physiologically dependence-causing drugs, most people get mentally addicted before they get dependent, that is how people end up dependent on drugs like opiates that they know full well are dependence-causing and that they should avoid using too often, but they get mentally addicted and use more and more often until they are physically dependent as well. A person can also get mentally addicted to using drugs in general, where they are not really addicted to or physiologically dependent on any one particular drug but feel the need to use drugs all the time.

These terms are complicated by the fact that different people use them differently, some people use "addiction" and "dependence" interchangeably, some people use either term to mean a mental addiction and some people use either term to mean a physiological dependence. And some people use both terms solely to mean a physiological dependence and think they aren't addicted to something if they don't get withdrawals on the days they don't use it. I like to say "physical" or "physiological" dependence in order to makes things more clear.

Wikipedia defines physical dependence as:

Physical dependence refers to a state resulting from chronic use of a drug that has produced tolerance and where negative physical symptoms of withdrawal result from abrupt discontinuation or dosage reduction.

As to the OP

also is there a differences between dependence and recreational use since any kind of using a foreign substance is dependence of a kind isnt it rather than relying on your 'God Given Sobriety'?

It's not dependence if you're just using drugs once in a blue moon. A dictionary defines dependence as:

de·pend·ence
noun
1. relying on or needing someone or something for aid, support, or something else
2. reliance; confidence; trust
3. being conditional or contingent on something, as through a natural or logical sequence: the dependence of an effect upon a cause
4. being physiologically dependent on a drug after a prolonged period of use

But I think even if you used a non-drug definition that it usually implies a constant or frequent reliance.

Like these days, since im t total most of the time i find it really fucking boring most of the time as i have very little to look forward to. on the one hand i wonder if i should just be 'strong' and endure the boredom and learn to appreciate this 'straight' lifestyle or whether just taking something a cpl ties a year is ok- like mdma and a bit of weed.

I still havent found an answer bt i do know sobriety has been fucking boring the periods i do it and that im always 'waiting for the payoff' of life which never seems to materialise.

I think you need to create payoffs in life instead of waiting around passively hoping for them to materialize.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with doing drugs a couple times a year, you have to consider whether it causes negative consequences for you. For example, do you take risks with drugs that are not really worth it? Does your drug use cause problems in your life or make you feel like shit afterwards? Does using drugs make you want to use more drugs and worry you will get addicted? Do you spend all your time thinking life sucks without drugs and waiting/hoping for those occasions when you do use them? All of these things are much more important then what term you use to describe your drug use.

 

[Harambulus]

Good points thanks.

As to your quesitons...

I think the main issue is that the drug use itself doesnt cause me problems in my life- i have used them a cpl times a year and no binging (except if i accidentally took too much being a new substance), just single doses. but the mental guilttrip i give myself for having used them, for feeling like a failure and weak for using substances to enjoy myself is what causes me the pain.

of course there is comedowns form drugs and that is antoehr issue of whehter it is worth it- i think its sort of a skill to manage a comedown and whehter or not it is worth the high. part of this related to my previous point of feeling guilty. i would take drugs and deliberately punish myself by trying to give myself a bad comedown- like deliberately not taking 5-htp after mdma even tho i knew it would help, or l tyrosine after a dopa jaunt, like i had to punish myself to prevent further use in future because id been naughty. In the past i retionalized this would prevent further use but it didnt so i wont do that again. So if i have anotehr blast ill be interested to see how i feel if i take drugs and then use harm reduction properly on the comedown- weed, and supplements.

I would think to myself 'if the comedown is too easy ill have gotten away 'scot free' and jsut want to be high all the time'. Is this an unrealistic projection? Ie even if you dont have a bad comedown are there natural motivations in place that would prevent you form wanting to be high all the time? that i think is the crux of my concern...like if i can just take a drug and not have any considerable comedown what would stop me from just neglecting my day to day activities because i got a reward 'scott free' by taking a drug rather than having to toil day in day out at something in 'real life' with no surety of ever getting a reward.

^So this is the root of the issue for me i think and what id like to home the discussion in on.

This is pretty much how I define them:


Although I would add with addiction there has to be a certain frequency of use, if someone uses a drug once a year despite the negative consequences I wouldn't consider that an addiction. And recreational use can be much more vague and harder to define, and there is overlap between recreational use, addiction and dependence of course.



^Actually I think addiction and dependence are generally considered the other way around. Like "addiction" means a mental addiction, where you don't necessarily get withdrawals when you stop, whereas "dependence" means a physiological/physical dependence, where you get withdrawals if you stop. You can have one without the other, or both at the same time. For example, I was physiologically dependent on antidepressants, because I got withdrawal symptoms when I quit, but I was not at all mentally addicted, (and hence it was a lot easier for me to stop than stopping something I was mentally addicted to). With physiologically dependence-causing drugs, most people get mentally addicted before they get dependent, that is how people end up dependent on drugs like opiates that they know full well are dependence-causing and that they should avoid using too often, but they get mentally addicted and use more and more often until they are physically dependent as well. A person can also get mentally addicted to using drugs in general, where they are not really addicted to or physiologically dependent on any one particular drug but feel the need to use drugs all the time.

These terms are complicated by the fact that different people use them differently, some people use "addiction" and "dependence" interchangeably, some people use either term to mean a mental addiction and some people use either term to mean a physiological dependence. And some people use both terms solely to mean a physiological dependence and think they aren't addicted to something if they don't get withdrawals on the days they don't use it. I like to say "physical" or "physiological" dependence in order to makes things more clear.

Wikipedia defines physical dependence as:


As to the OP

It's not dependence if you're just using drugs once in a blue moon. A dictionary defines dependence as:



But I think even if you used a non-drug definition that it usually implies a constant or frequent reliance.



I think you need to create payoffs in life instead of waiting around passively hoping for them to materialize.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with doing drugs a couple times a year, you have to consider whether it causes negative consequences for you. For example, do you take risks with drugs that are not really worth it? Does your drug use cause problems in your life or make you feel like shit afterwards? Does using drugs make you want to use more drugs and worry you will get addicted? Do you spend all your time thinking life sucks without drugs and waiting/hoping for those occasions when you do use them? All of these things are much more important then what term you use to describe your drug use.

 

[RobotRipping]

This is pretty much how I define them:


Although I would add with addiction there has to be a certain frequency of use, if someone uses a drug once a year despite the negative consequences I wouldn't consider that an addiction. And recreational use can be much more vague and harder to define, and there is overlap between recreational use, addiction and dependence of course.

yeah that's a good point, still, if someone get so shitfaced drunk once a year that it ruins their lives, that is an obvious sign of addiction but in general i agree, there needs to be some frequency of use for addiction to occur.

The people that blur this line are weekend warriors, or binge drinkers. They aren't dependent but i'd say addicted in most cases. Yet some of them still handle their lives fine and are productive members of society (whatever that means), which would by definition make them not addicts. I guess it's stupid and very post modern of us to try to pidgeon hole people and put them into over simplified categories. Addiction, dependence and recreational use is complicated and has many variables and often overlap with each other.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I find it difficult to really distinguish between the three as well as there is so much at play with the terms. I think dependence is when a person finds themself unable to stop using drugs as it has horrible physical side effects upon cessation of the drug - whether unintentionally (through taking medication prescribed for long periods of time) or from an addiction to drugs which you've created for yourself. Therefore it's possible to be addicted to and dependant on drugs at the same time. Addiction for me is the mental side effect of drugs. You feel as if you cannot function mentally or emotionally without the drug at specific times, be it at night, daily, weekly or even monthly to be honest. A personal who uses a drug every month because they say they wil not be able to function or enjoy their life without it in my books is an addict - as it will usually go from every month, to each week so on so forth. They are simply at the start of their addiction.

As to a recreational user, I don't know. Perhaps a person who can control their intake of drugs at a level where they can control themselves and don't feel a need or urging to take them frequently or every so often. A perso who could effectively say okay I'm going to X drug today and never again in my life. I dunno. It's a hard one.

 

[THC_LSD_OC]

Substance abuse is considered when you take drugs that are known to be harmful and you know this, but take them anyways.
drug addiction is when you need a certain drug to function, and if you discontinue use mental and/or physical withdrawal will occur AND cravings for more the drug will occur.
Those are the technical definitions (at least in my own words)
That being said, in my own words I would just say recreational use is when you do something a few times a month, maybe a little more, and only on weekends when you do not have work or things to take care of.
I think substance addiction is when you cant go through a day without thinking of taking the drug and/or experience withdrawal symptoms from not using, whether it be mental or physical withdrawal.
for example, if someone wakes up in the morning (not myself of course, lol) and their stomach hurts, so after smoking weed their stomach feels better. Then they get into a habit, and before you know it if you dont smoke in the morning your stomach will hurt no matter what. It may seem like a physical withdrawal, but its all mental. Thats for weed anyways.