What do you guys think - Dependence/Physical harm chart

[Mr Blonde]

Found this on wiki in the Drug Addiction article.

Now, one of my favorite quotes has always been that if you took three people - an alcoholic, a lifelong smoker and a pharmaceutical grade heroin addict, that chances are the junky would be the healthiest one physically.

And this diagram says that the physical harm of alcohol and tobacco is lower then that of heroin, benzos, ketamine and cocaine. What!? How the hell are they reaching these conclusions? It's well known that cigarettes are WAY bad for you, that alcohol in chronic use will trash your liver...I thought that benzos were relatively safe though, as long as you didn't combine them with alcohol and opiates...ketamine I thought was also pretty safe.

Any thoughts?

ETA: At least they have cannabis and LSD on 1 in terms of harm.

 

['medicine cabinet']

uhh i dunno about this...i dont get how "street methadone" would be under cocaine considering heroin is at the top. they are both opiates and addictive. granted heroin is shorter acting and all, but why would cocaine be inbetween those?

 

[51fifty]

I have seen this before and it is one of the stupidest, and most incorrect drug propaganda I have seen.

Amphetamines are less harmful than Heroin. And MDMA is way too low on the scale. Also solvents are not that phisically harmful? Bull shit! Also LSD can permanately fuck your mind.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

i have this chart saved on my comp and disagree with MANY of it's statements. unless they are talking about IV'ing street heroin theres no way alcohol is safer....

 

[silentscience]

totally wrong. there's no way ketamine would be more harmful than solvents! WTF?!

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

and how is LSD more harmful than cannabis? LSD is the least toxic recreational drug (as far as i know). not that cannabis is dangerous... but LSD is ridiculous safe (physically).

 

[burn out]

i agree it's totally wrong. i've said this before but i'll say it again:

comparing the harms of different drugs is extremely difficult and really not all that useful unless you're doing it in a very specific context. there are simply too many factors that come into play.

 

[iameatingjam]

I didn't think heroin would be that far up in terms of physical damage, unless the chart takes into consideration lifestyle changes.

 

[burn out]

and how is LSD more harmful than cannabis? LSD is the least toxic recreational drug (as far as i know). not that cannabis is dangerous... but LSD is ridiculous safe (physically).

well while i agree with you that cannabis is much more harmful than LSD, maybe they are making the argument that LSD has a greater chance of inducing some type of damage like HPPD than cannabis. i've heard of some people developing symptoms of HPPD after using LSD once but i've never heard of anyone getting HPPD from smoking marijuana once.

but i just think that not only the chart but just the whole premise of creating such a such with such unspecific criteria is so flawed that it's pointless to discuss.

 

[iameatingjam]

and how is LSD more harmful than cannabis? LSD is the least toxic recreational drug (as far as i know). not that cannabis is dangerous... but LSD is ridiculous safe (physically).

Dunno
it kinda gave me a lifelong vision problem >.>
and I've only done it once
Will be year in two weeks that I've had hppd.

 

[phr]

The heroin dot is completely wrong. I didn't care enough to look at the other ones after seeing that.

 

[burn out]

I didn't think heroin would be that far up in terms of physical damage, unless the chart takes into consideration lifestyle changes.

the chart is probably taking into account things like shared needles and crap like that but that's my point about how the very premise of making the chart is flawed. unless they specify precisely what they are basing it on, it's useless. we can't be left to "guess" what it means.

 

[Mr Blonde]

i agree it's totally wrong. i've said this before but i'll say it again:

comparing the harms of different drugs is extremely difficult and really not all that useful unless you're doing it in a very specific context. there are simply too many factors that come into play.

Damn straight, I say.

Good to know that everyone thinks this is a piece of shit. I didn't even notice the solvents until someone pointed it out. Solvents less harmful then tobacco, alcohol and benzos and everything? WTF!?

Yeah I've got that HPPD thing as well, but I wouldn't consider it particularly harmful...to me anyway. Plus, it's a hell of a talking point

 

[burn out]

Dunno
it kinda gave me a lifelong vision problem >.>
and I've only done it once
Will be year in two weeks that I've had hppd.

thanks for providing an excellent example that illustrates one of the points i was making in my other post. that was right on cue.

 

[Ham-milton]

HPPD is far more severe than "it kinda gave me a lifelong vision problem"- it's a disorder, not a mild problem.

HPPD is the hip new disorder among users of psychedelics.

 

[Jackal]

Tobacco, Alcohol, Heroin and Amphetamine should be lower lever 3 IMO

Solvents should be at the tip top of this chart.

Steroids should be mid level two IMO, Ket slightly lower than it is.

The rest are not to badly highlighted but I guess each person will have a different view.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

the bottom line is PHYSICAL harm.. HPPD = mental disorder

no?

therefore i stick with my position that LSD is safer than cannabis physically...

but this chart doesn't take into account dosages or MoA... etc.

this whole chart is bullshit IMO. i mean it says benzos are MORE physically harmful than alcohol!!! i know they are very similar but common, alcohol is MUCH worse for ones body than benzos, heroin, bupe, etc...

 

[Tsukasa]

Uh guys...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5230006.stm

 

[burn out]

the bottom line is PHYSICAL harm.. HPPD = mental disorder

no?

therefore i stick with my position that LSD is safer than cannabis physically...

but this chart doesn't take into account dosages or MoA... etc.

well according to the erowid faq on hppd http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/health/hppd/hppd_faq.shtml#explained, there is evidence that hppd has a physiological bases.

this whole chart is bullshit IMO. i mean it says benzos are MORE physically harmful than alcohol!!! i know they are very similar but common, alcohol is MUCH worse for ones body than benzos, heroin, bupe, etc...

i agree there, i just don't understand how they conclude benzos are more physically harmful than alcohol. i could take an entire months prescription of xanax tonight and most likely survive with no adverse affects. but if i tried to drink five fiths of vodka tonight, well good bye. also over the long term, alcoholism causes cirrohsis of the liver, potentially severe brain damage, gastritis, pancreatitis (which is potentially fatal), heart disease and increases your risk for esaphogical cancer, stomach cancer and possibly other forms of cancer. not to mention the link between alcoholism and heart disease. sudden death from heart attacks has been noted in alcoholics. i've never heard of benzos causing any of these things. in fact doctors actually PRESCRIBE people relatively high doses of benzos to take every day in some cases. i've never heard of a doctor advising a patient to drink a fifth of whiskey a day. what are these devastating physical affects benzos supposedly cause you that are worse than alcohol? someone please tell me?

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

burn out - did not know HPPD had any physiological basis, my bad...

but i'm glad we agree about the benzos being safer than alcohol....

the chart says that buprenorphine is more physically harmful than benzos AND alcohol AND tobacco...