What do pharmacists see when you purchase codeine OTC

[pharmarat]

I am not from Australia but am a licensed pharmacist. I would be interested in hearing some of your ideas on this as where I practice we do have tools, very under utilized ones, that could make this a real possibility.

I am also curious as how strict your privacy laws are as here in the US we have HIPAA and others but peer to peer conversation or cross discipline sharing of info is not restricted everywhere. So some do feel it is necessary to share info on what they feel are problematic patients and can do so with impunity.

Hey Sounds interesting, what kinds of tools do you have? I guess the type of thing I'm thinking of is pretty simple (to begin with at least). For example, having contact details for various AOD services on hand, better education for pharmacists regarding addiction, and training for pharmacists on how to communicate respectfully and effectively with people who may be 'misusing' OTC or prescription meds. As I said, I'm still just a student, and I feel like the only reason I have some basic understanding of these concepts is because harm minimisation and drug use are of interest to me. Maybe we could also look at providing packs for withdrawal/detox...A few days worth of low-dose suboxone and maybe some other things to help with symptom management.

Regarding privacy laws, I find all this MedASSIST stuff a bit iffy to be honest. I think it's rare that pharmacists fully explain how and why a driver's licence is used and recorded. At the very least it needs a bit more publicity, like the Project STOP signs that used to be all over the place. I've raised this as an issue but was largely dismissed, although it is only in a trial phase at the moment In terms of peer-to-peer conversation, I've only ever seen information shared between staff at one pharmacy, and usually it is to do with problematic patients...generally those who will try to pull the wool over our eyes or have threatened staff. Any other passing-on or access of info to/from other pharmacies, doctors etc. is done with the patient's permission. Legally, very strict, and for most pharmacists I've met I'd say it's second nature.

 

[psytaco]

I quit a 300mg a day codeine habit this weekend (combined with a hangover and a slight MDMA comedown). Wasn't too bad except a bit of discomfort yesterday - running nose and aches.


Going to do a session at the gym today. I had to quit anyway, as I'm moving to a country where this is definitely not otc.

 

[swilow]

^How long were you on that dose psytaco?

Codeine withdrawal is mild to the extent that it can be hard to learn from. For me, at various times, the withdrawal was well worth a few weeks of being high constantly. It does get worse the more you go through it though...

 

[Quixote]

I wonder if the government is actually doing this to curb codeine use or to generate revenue for the MedAssist program. Pharmacies will lose a lot of money if codeine preparations become strictly prescription it'd make sense that pharmacies would be so willing to implement the system if it means that they can continue selling codeine productions OTC. Shady shit IMO.

Anyway, if you're in Melbourne try pharmacies in Asian majority suburbs (think south east, westside, etc) and look for independent or small chain pharmacies - a bunch have still not implemented the ID system.

 

[mister]

I got asked for id today when buying a packet of 15mg codiene tabs.

I think this will make some people turn to the black market or consider using heroin.

Thanks nanny state

 

[bunnny]

I went cold turkey from a approx 1300mg CWE codeine habit a day eight days ago- at most three 40 boxes of Panadeine Extra a day. I'm in Melbourne and I had no issues obtaining them even after MedsASSIST was implemented around me. I would swap a couple of student cards, licence and my passport once every ten days but generally, it was really easy to get them just handed to me. I found saying they were for my mother stopped interrogations from pharmacist assistants. At most, I'd get a lecture about getting not my mother to a GP from the pharmacist at the pharmacies I went to every 2-3 days.

Even eight days later, I'm still suffering nasty withdrawals. Sharp, intense pain in the middle of my back that won't disappear, difficulties sleeping (even with 30mg Valium, I can't sleep for more than three hours a night), nausea and hot and cold flashes. My pupils are constantly dilated and it looks like I'm walking around on speed. From what I've read in this thread, this doesn't seem to match everybody else's experience but it seems like I used it way heavier. I'm on a fairly high dose of an antidepressant so maybe this is has something to do with how prolonged this withdrawal is.

I honestly regret making the decision from using it every couple weeks just for fun to hardcore daily use. I thought 'fuck it, it's just OTC codeine' and it took my life over. All my time between work was either sourcing pills, extracting the codeine and sleeping. Miserable existence but it's even harder trying to get clean and knowing the solution to all your pain is literally down the road, packaged neatly at the pharmacy.

 

[swilow]

4 boxes of panadeine extra is 1800mg. How long were you on that high dose?

 

[customs]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Paracetamol/A[/FONT]cetaminophen[FONT=arial, sans-serif] aka APAP will fuck your inside up real good - I dosed 30 N+ 6 days a week for a month, 4-5-6 days the rest of the year - 200mg ibuprofen/12.8mg codeine (you all know nurofen plus).[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]CWE will do the trick - yeah - but after my repeated stupidity (dosage) of N+, I took like four tabs of 500mg paracetamol/15mg codeine and the paracetamol I felt did considerably more damage than all a weeks worth of 200mg Ibuprofen x 30.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]So make sure CWE correct - CWE Ibuprofen doesn't work so well - it works, but you've gotta be patient and willing to do a few re-washes if you want a solid dose for your moneys worth.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]p.s. I took 30 N+ today, and on Wednesday - I had a checkup re: polyps (genetic) (prevention) and my insides were quote "not too flash - maybe take it easy on the fizzy drinks".

Either I have an iron stomach, or do not fuck with APAP.[/FONT]

 

[bunnny]

Swilow, sorry I should have clarified. 1300mg was what I needed to maintain the habit without being sick. The four boxes (1800mg) was what I needed to get any feeling from it. I've read codeine has a ceiling dose but I never noticed it until I built up a tolerance. I maintained myself on 1300mg for about six months.

Customs, I've been told by my GP to use paracetamol rather than ibuprofen for chronic pain. The reason being that ibuprofen and other NSAIDs are linked to all sort of nasty stomach and intestinal issues like ulcers and bleeding. I've never tried to CWE ibuprofen so I don't know how well it works but paracetamol is much easier on the stomach. The issue with paracetamol is that you can easily overdose and overload your liver. It produces a toxic compound that can throw you into acute liver failure quickly so if you fuck up your CWE, you're in big trouble. That being said, I had days where I went to a dark place, stupidly skip CWE because I didn't care if I lived or died and took 80-90 pills throughout the day. I've had extensive liver testing done and luckily my liver was unharmed- they called it a 'miracle' but both drugs carry their own separate risks. Stay safe

 

[Xander2020]

Hi everyone, been addicted to codeine for 12+ years, I was lucky and had begun to slow taper a few weeks before MEDSASSIST came into play. All pharmacies here in southern NSW ask me for ID now so I can only safely buy 1 packet every 3/4 weeks.

How I get around this is to purchase Codral Day Cold and Flu tablets. These contain 9.5mg codeine phosplate....and come in packs of 48. I can even buy 4 or 5 packs at a time ( tried and tested)

My question is why one pack of N+ (384mg of codeine) requires ID when I can buy 5 Codral packs (2,280mg of codeine) without it???

Side note, MEDSASSIST is one of the best things to ever happen to me.

 

[Poss]

Hi All,

There seems to be a be a huge amount of confusion around this I have checked with my trusted pharmacist as I did have a problem with codeine and have now been almost 4 weeks done with it (thank god) anyway he advised there are currently two systems in use Project Stop and MedsAssist - NEITHER is a legal requirement at this stage it is at the decision of the actual pharmacy which is why you are all finding different things. I have noted that MOST places using MedsAssist will somewhere display a sign explaining the program - it will just save you the horrible look and bitchy attitude. From what I can see if you stick to the small independents they dont seem to be using, when I made my last purchase (which was almost 4 weeks ago) there were still 5 - 6 places within 10 mins from my place not recording.

For anyone interested in getting off the stuff - honestly will tell you its the best thing I have ever done and I wish I had done it much sooner, please dont get me wrong it certainly was not easy and I'm lucky to have had full financial and emotional support from my family allowing me to take time off work to get through, as well as support from my GP and some people on here helped me through and I cant thank them enough - I know not everyone has those options, I tapered right down and then ordered elimidrol (expensive but worked for me) the worst was over in about 2 days maybe 3 days and I'm now in therapy.

Bunny - i know the feeling I got to the stage that I felt it was taking over my life I hope your feeling a bit better soon x

 

[EthnoFreak]

Hi All, There seems to be a be a huge amount of confusion around this I have checked with my trusted pharmacist as I did have a problem with codeine and have now been almost 4 weeks done with it (thank god) anyway he advised there are currently two systems in use Project Stop and MedsAssist - NEITHER is a legal requirement at this stage it is at the decision of the actual pharmacy which is why you are all finding different things. I have noted that MOST places using MedsAssist will somewhere display a sign explaining the program - it will just save you the horrible look and bitchy attitude. From what I can see if you stick to the small independents they dont seem to be using, when I made my last purchase (which was almost 4 weeks ago) there were still 5 - 6 places within 10 mins from my place not recording - all small independents. For anyone interested in getting off the stuff - honestly will tell you its the best thing I have ever done and I wish I had done it much sooner, please dont get me wrong it certainly was not easy and I'm lucky to have had full financial and emotional support from my family allowing me to take time off work to get through, as well as support from my GP and some people on here helped me through and I cant thank them enough - I know not everyone has those options, I tapered right down and then ordered elimidrol (expensive but worked for me) the worst was over in about 2 days maybe 3 days and I'm now in therapy. Bunny - i know the feeling I got to the stage that I felt it was taking over my life I hope your feeling a bit better soon x

Can you please clear your inbox, I'm trying to reply to you...

 

[Iskoh]

I've been addicted to codeine for a few years, can confirm NOT ALL pharmacies are taking ID at the time of writing this, at least not in my area, particularly smaller chains seem less likely to but the number that do take ID is increasing significantly. I suspect it's only a matter of time before they all do. Have been tempted to try using my passport instead of my license to see if my prior purchases come up but as others have said I can't know for sure which chemists have used project STOP to take my details and which have used medASSIST. According to the medassist website they do accept passports and only take down your card number, what you purchased, where you purchased from, when & why you purchased it, so in theory you should be able to use other forms of ID and not have your prior purchases show up... but I've also heard conflicting reports that some chemists will refuse to take anything but a drivers license.

All in all it's probably time to taper down & quit on our own terms lest we end up being forced to regardless of whether we're ready or not.

 

[swilow]

^At this stage, the program seems voluntary and is by no means uniformly applied. It seems to actual differ according to the pharmacist. I have 2 places that I get codeine from now, I cannot be fucked driving around obtaining this shit, and at one particular place, only one pharmacist accepts only drivers license; the other pharmacist either doesn't care or just takes my student card. My other go-to pharamacy doesn't give two shits, and it is actually a really big branch. I've bought p-extra on consecutive days, twice in one day and they appeared not to notice. They are very busy which is probably why...

I've never tried to CWE ibuprofen so I don't know how well it works

IME, CWE using ibuprofen is much less effective then using something combined with paracetemol. I don't know why this would be the case, but I get nice effects off about 600 mg (40x p-extra). If I CWE 80 nurofen/generic I get very little effect.

This did not used to happen. I used to only use ibuprofen combo's for fear of liver damage when I was using multiple times daily. I think CWE on ibuprofen plus products catches significantly less codeine; I don't know if its the binder, but CWE on nurofen often turns extremely sludgy unless you use a bit too much water.

I also think there is a difference in brands, but this could be placebo. The flagship brand of p-deine (trying to be subtle) works way better than generics. It dissolves quicker, and filters much clearer.

My question is why one pack of N+ (384mg of codeine) requires ID when I can buy 5 Codral packs (2,280mg of codeine) without it???.

Most of the additive ingredients would be dangerous at doses similar to nurofen plus. Often, they come with phenylephrine. High doses of that would be dangerous. Often it comes with an antihistamine or DXM too. AFAIK, there's no easy way to remove something like phenlyephrine.

 

[Weedmadventures]

Does rikodeine go under medsassist? How to go about asking if medsassist is in use at a chemist before purchasing? Because they're meant to ask permission to record your details but I've had chemists without any medsassist signs up ask for my license and enter it in the medsassist data base without a word of warning. I'm thinking if the chemist has a phone number just to ring and ask over phone before coming in.

 

[Weedmadventures]

What was your reasoning to the chemist as to why you wanted multiple packets of codral? And how expensive are they?

 

[Verybuffed]

This thread has been skirting the sourcing and availability discussion for some time now. New users are now asking for alternatives to ID to purchase drugs and for advice on how to buy multiple packets.

 

[Vyking]

This thread has been skirting the sourcing and availability discussion for some time now. New users are now asking for alternatives to ID to purchase drugs and for advice on how to buy multiple packets.

Codeine in Australia is available over the counter, so it's not like they're doing anything illegal.
The MedsAssist program is not a state or federal law either - some people dislike their personal info recorded, that's all.

 

[Verybuffed]

Codeine in Australia is available over the counter, so it's not like they're doing anything illegal.
The MedsAssist program is not a state or federal law either - some people dislike their personal info recorded, that's all.

I realise that. People are asking for advice on how to buy multiple packets and how to get around the ID recording system so that they can source more product. Bluelight is here for harm reduction, not to help people source drugs.

 

[Poss]

Cleared or should be!