Misc What are the best supplements to help mimic an opioid or benzo high/content feeling?

[simstim]

Kratom
Kava kava
Valerian root extract
L-theanine

Possibly a combination of those would be ideal.

 

[anonymouse77]

Kava is amazing, when used right, never tried fijian varieties but seem to be good for daytime, strong/heavy vanuatus and some other varities (those called "heavy") are not good for daytime activity.
I never found a supplement that can mimic that, I would like to...
heard good things about magnolol-honokiol (magnolia bark extract), semax, and also phenibut (but it's withdrawal inducing and addictive), pregabalin is not a nootropic but well..
same can be said of tianeptine, but that's pretty serious habit forming (I guess more than phenibut).
If you like different types of "content" like "choline content" seems that phenypiracetam + alpha GPC or noopept + alpha GPC can ring that bell.
Ashwagandha is good for withdrawal but it's not a craving killer nor euphoric in my experience. It can be nice when going for a walk or to kill anxiety or sleep (in higher doses). Kava is quite craving killer for me, and +600mg of NAC also kills dopa cravings.
ah, forgot about mucuna, mucuna + light stimulants (like caffeine) is very good, yohimbe low dose is also very rewarding, but probably not suited for withdrawal times if you're not experienced with the plant.

What does choline really do and is there a way to off-set the hangover that happens the day after taking piracetam and alpha GPC. I only tried this once 2 days ago and had yesterday off but could barely function yesterday. I took a lower dose of piracetam today with a standard "dose" of alpha GPC. Does more alpha GPC just on it's own help? I don't really understand it all and hope someone could kindly explain.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

What does choline really do and is there a way to off-set the hangover that happens the day after taking piracetam and alpha GPC. I only tried this once 2 days ago and had yesterday off but could barely function yesterday. I took a lower dose of piracetam today with a standard "dose" of alpha GPC. Does more alpha GPC just on it's own help? I don't really understand it all and hope someone could kindly explain.

Choline taken with Piracetam will greatly increase it's effects.

 

[anonymouse77]

Choline taken with Piracetam will greatly increase it's effects.

Thank you for your reply. I have heard this and was taking normal standard choline supplement but then bought some alpha GPC (which I only just discovered is another form of choline) and it greatly helped the effects of piracetam more than the regular choline. I was extremely tired the next day though and want to avoid this again. Will taking more choline (either form) help without taking the piracetam, do you think?

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I would feel tired the day after taking Piracetam and Choline for a while, but it wouldn't be too bad.
Choline by itself, in larger doses, has a more subtle nootropic effect. Kind of headachy for me, though.

 

[anonymouse77]

I would feel tired the day after taking Piracetam and Choline for a while, but it wouldn't be too bad.
Choline by itself, in larger doses, has a more subtle nootropic effect. Kind of headachy for me, though.

Thank you for letting me know. I think because it was my first try of the piracetam with the alpha gpc it had more of an effect the next day. Also I am sensitive to the effects of drugs and medications.

So you wouldn't take an anticholinergic the next day as you want more choline. Is that right?

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Thank you for letting me know. I think because it was my first try of the piracetam with the alpha gpc it had more of an effect the next day. Also I am sensitive to the effects of drugs and medications.

So you wouldn't take an anticholinergic the next day as you want more choline. Is that right?

Well, goodness. Maybe someone who is more of an expert on pharmacology can weigh in, but since anticholinergics block the action of acetylcholine and since Piracetam increases the action of acetylcholine I would think that, at least, it would increase any rebound lack of clarity.
I mean, hell, anticholinergics make my brain more muddled on a good day.

Piracetam's action is not completely understood. It's well known by people taking it that Choline greatly enhances it's effects, though.

Piracetam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mechanisms of action​

Piracetam's mechanism of action, as with racetams in general, is not fully understood. The drug influences neuronal and vascular functions and influences cognitive function without acting as a sedative or stimulant.[4] Piracetam is a positive allosteric modulator of the AMPA receptor, although this action is very weak and its clinical effects may not necessarily be mediated by this action.[22] It is hypothesized to act on ion channels or ion carriers, thus leading to increased neuron excitability.[20] GABA brain metabolism and GABA receptors are not affected by piracetam[23]

Piracetam increases the action of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine via muscarinic cholinergic (ACh) receptors[citation needed], which are implicated in memory processes.[24] Furthermore, piracetam may have an effect on NMDA glutamate receptors, which are involved with learning and memory processes. Piracetam is thought to increase cell membrane permeability.[24][25] Piracetam may exert its global effect on brain neurotransmission via modulation of ion channels (i.e., Na+, K+).[20] It has been found to increase oxygen consumption in the brain, apparently in connection to ATP metabolism, and increases the activity of adenylate kinase in rat brains.[26][27] Piracetam, while in the brain, appears to increase the synthesis of cytochrome b5,[28] which is a part of the electron transport mechanism in mitochondria. But in the brain, it also increases the permeability of some intermediates of the Krebs cycle through the mitochondrial outer membrane.[26]
Piracetam inhibits N-type calcium channels. The concentration of piracetam achieved in central nervous system after a typical dose of 1200 mg (about 100 μM)[29] is much higher than the concentration necessary to inhibit N-type calcium channels (IC50 of piracetam in rat neurons was 3 μM).[30]

When I first started taking Piracetam, I was taking 400mg a day and found it's effect at that level subtle, hardly noticeable. I added 500mg Choline one morning after reading that it would help and I was suddenly "on". I was zipping through work and bantering to the point where I realized I would have to tone it down so as to not attract attention. Big difference.

 

[Jen X]

Clonidine is my best friend for withdrawals. Helps quite a bit with anxiety and sleep

 

[anonymouse77]

Well, goodness. Maybe someone who is more of an expert on pharmacology can weigh in, but since anticholinergics block the action of acetylcholine and since Piracetam increases the action of acetylcholine I would think that, at least, it would increase any rebound lack of clarity.
I mean, hell, anticholinergics make my brain more muddled on a good day.

Piracetam's action is not completely understood. It's well known by people taking it that Choline greatly enhances it's effects, though.

Piracetam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mechanisms of action​

Piracetam's mechanism of action, as with racetams in general, is not fully understood. The drug influences neuronal and vascular functions and influences cognitive function without acting as a sedative or stimulant.[4] Piracetam is a positive allosteric modulator of the AMPA receptor, although this action is very weak and its clinical effects may not necessarily be mediated by this action.[22] It is hypothesized to act on ion channels or ion carriers, thus leading to increased neuron excitability.[20] GABA brain metabolism and GABA receptors are not affected by piracetam[23]

Piracetam increases the action of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine via muscarinic cholinergic (ACh) receptors[citation needed], which are implicated in memory processes.[24] Furthermore, piracetam may have an effect on NMDA glutamate receptors, which are involved with learning and memory processes. Piracetam is thought to increase cell membrane permeability.[24][25] Piracetam may exert its global effect on brain neurotransmission via modulation of ion channels (i.e., Na+, K+).[20] It has been found to increase oxygen consumption in the brain, apparently in connection to ATP metabolism, and increases the activity of adenylate kinase in rat brains.[26][27] Piracetam, while in the brain, appears to increase the synthesis of cytochrome b5,[28] which is a part of the electron transport mechanism in mitochondria. But in the brain, it also increases the permeability of some intermediates of the Krebs cycle through the mitochondrial outer membrane.[26]
Piracetam inhibits N-type calcium channels. The concentration of piracetam achieved in central nervous system after a typical dose of 1200 mg (about 100 μM)[29] is much higher than the concentration necessary to inhibit N-type calcium channels (IC50 of piracetam in rat neurons was 3 μM).[30]

When I first started taking Piracetam, I was taking 400mg a day and found it's effect at that level subtle, hardly noticeable. I added 500mg Choline one morning after reading that it would help and I was suddenly "on". I was zipping through work and bantering to the point where I realized I would have to tone it down so as to not attract attention. Big difference.

Thank you so much for the good info. I believe my piracetam were 800mg per tablet and I started with half a tab like I always do and didn't feel much also. Then I went to 1 and maybe once or twice I tried 2 at once. I noticed some increased ability to think clearly and better but no euphoria. More depression which I realise now might be the cholinergic effect.

Also I read this site I will link below about cholinergic meds and it mentions heart problems and I definitely noticed a heart-related thing the next day when it wore off. Felt like my heart was blocked or something. Not good. I have heart palpitations regularly and think I have a weakness there so I am going to be weary with it. When I noticed that I took the alpha-gpc with it and dissolved half a tablet under my tongue as I read about that somewhere with them. I also took a whole tablet. So only 1 1/2 in total but maybe taking it sublingually made it different.

Thank you for reading. Here is the site:

Cholinergic Drugs: How Do They Work?

Cholinergic drugs have a wide variety of clinical indications. How do cholinergic drugs work?

www.nursingcenter.com

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Probably not a great thing for "quitting" but IME GBL/BDO/GHB/1.4 batanediol mimics the finest of both the benzo and alcohol buzz without the associated drawbacks (EXCEPT ADDICTION THAT IS VERY REAL!!).

Actually the drawbacks could be pretty serious but it is easily sourced in most places still. FFS if you do go this route use great care with drug interactions, dosing (dosing varies depeding on what you can grab where you are) and all that. Shit might be worse than benzos really but my cpu is hacked so no bitcoin for me lol

For quitting benzos clonidine; or at least benadryl is a must have to keep BP safe. Kratom won't help withdrawls but you may still 'feel better' again careful not to trade addictions without assessing your personal variables.

 

[anonymouse77]

Probably not a great thing for "quitting" but IME GBL/BDO/GHB/1.4 batanediol mimics the finest of both the benzo and alcohol buzz without the associated drawbacks (EXCEPT ADDICTION THAT IS VERY REAL!!).

Actually the drawbacks could be pretty serious but it is easily sourced in most places still. FFS if you do go this route use great care with drug interactions, dosing (dosing varies depeding on what you can grab where you are) and all that. Shit might be worse than benzos really but my cpu is hacked so no bitcoin for me lol

For quitting benzos clonidine; or at least benadryl is a must have to keep BP safe. Kratom won't help withdrawls but you may still 'feel better' again careful not to trade addictions without assessing your personal variables.

Could clonidine help for quitting lyrica, do you think?

 

[fairnymph]

Hello! I finally made a log in after maybe a decade of on & off lurking..

I think you guys are great.

Anyway I need help finding relief through supplements that may help with my decade long opioid and on and off benzo use. Because besides the physical withdrawal I think the worst part is my headspace, depression and anxiety.

Right now I have been taking the 8mg/2 naltrexone(?) But only in small quarters at a time my guess is maybe 2-4mg tops per day. My DOC is oxy and hydrocodone and of course doesn't feel the same thanks to damn subs....anyway if you guys can assist me in a direction of the best supplements that at the least will help with relaxation and better overall being. Never tried Kava but have heard good things & how well does Ashgwanda work?

Long distance running! 7-15 miles 6 days a week, ideally.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Could clonidine help for quitting lyrica, do you think?

I have never been 'on' lyrica....that being said in the US they are calling in a "gabapentanoid" which is false but if you have trouble sleeping without it, your heart goes fast, obviously high blood pressure.....than yes probably. I don't see why it wouldn't