What age do you think you will die?

[Jabberwocky]

its only depressing if theres an afterlife. otherwise, its just asking when we'll finally be free of all this shite, quite a comforting prospect even if you have to give up the none shite too.

 

[Myshkin]

its only depressing if theres an afterlife. otherwise, its just asking when we'll finally be free of all this shite, quite a comforting prospect even if you have to give up the none shite too.

Tsk. Another snub for the Kingdom of Heaven. Well don't say that Jesus didn't try.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

its only depressing if theres an afterlife. otherwise, its just asking when we'll finally be free of all this shite, quite a comforting prospect even if you have to give up the none shite too.

If there is an afterlife and it conforms to Christianity I don't see what could be depressing about that? What would be depressing is if the Hindus were right and you got reincarnated into an even shitter life as someone in the 3rd world.

 

[Cornishman]

If things carry on like they are I'll be lucky to see 50.

Would be nice to see a fit and healthy 70 and become the next EBM (epic beard man) but that'll never happen.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If there is an afterlife and it conforms to Christianity I don't see what could be depressing about that?

that all christians i know say you have to explicitly state that jesus is your saviour to go to heaven.

its not enough to 'have us much fun as you like whilst helping others have as much fun as you're having; be kind to those you love, be kind to those you don't, for gods sake, you gotta be kind; and respectful, because we're all one soul, be the best fucking person you can be.' (ajj lyrics) no. that is not sufficient for heaven. hence my problem.

in the hindu scenario i'm fairly sure i'd do fine as i try to apply the above lyrics to my life. unless you're a bastard to me. even then i'm not that vindictive.

 

[APH]

I reckon if I don`t change my lifestyle I will die at 39. (Im 33 years young I have thought this for quite sometime.
If I give up drinking and smoking my body might repair somewhat but it would be god damn hard to give up, especially alcohol, more than cigs.

I have had a few near misses in the past where I thought my number was up. My encounter with what I thought to be MDMA when in fact it was PMA back in 2000 in Australia springs to mind.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

that all christians i know say you have to explicitly state that jesus is your saviour to go to heaven.

its not enough to 'have us much fun as you like whilst helping others have as much fun as you're having; be kind to those you love, be kind to those you don't, for gods sake, you gotta be kind; and respectful, because we're all one soul, be the best fucking person you can be.' (ajj lyrics) no. that is not sufficient for heaven. hence my problem.

in the hindu scenario i'm fairly sure i'd do fine as i try to apply the above lyrics to my life. unless you're a bastard to me. even then i'm not that vindictive.

But even if you do that, and most people like to think they do, nobody is perfect. An instrinsic part of Christianity is trying to follow roughly those rules, and being genuinely sorry when you fail. Is it the believing in Jesus you take exception to, or the exclusionary door policy or what?

The Hindu scenario seems to only say you will be reincarnated as xyz animal because of how you behaved in your previous life, but it doesn't seem to say where you as that animal will end up. You could be a cow in India where you'll be worshipped, or you could be a cow in America where you'll be pumped full of growth hormone in a dark environment for 2 years then shot in the head.

 

[Jabberwocky]

the exclusionary door policy.

undiscovered tribes are sent to hell automatically because they never even got a chance to hear about jesus. fair?

plus how stupid you have to be to accept jesus as your saviour, and that he died for our sins, was resurrected and ascended directly to heaven, with no evidence. i read an entire book about the supposed evidence once and it was insulting to someone with a vaguely scientific background. i totally believe that jesus was probably a good bloke, had a decent grasp of psychology, and a horrible death, but this isn't sufficient along with being nice for me to go to heaven.

so its a religion where only the blind/dumb get to heaven and those with the intelligence to assess situations on the basis of present evidence rather than some old book are punished with eternal damnation. yet god loves us, gave us freewill, and is omniscient so knew some of us wouldn't believe in him. yet he still sends us to hell. for literally no reason.

as for karma- i don't know too much about it but i'm fairly sure they make sure you end up nice. only people who eat those cows should end up as those cows, hopefully having died from one of the antibiotic resistant diseases caused by factory farming.

 

[parttime crackhead]

the exclusionary door policy.

undiscovered tribes are sent to hell automatically because they never converted.

plus how stupid you have to be to accept jesus as your saviour, and that he died for our sins, was resurrected and ascended directly to heaven, with no evidence. i read an entire book about the supposed evidence once and it was insulting to someone with a vaguely scientific background. i totally believe that jesus was probably a good bloke, had a decent grasp of psychology, and a horrible death, but this isn't sufficient along with being nice for me to go to heaven.

so its a religion where only the blind/dumb get to heaven and those with the intelligence to assess situations on the basis of present evidence rather than some old book are punished with eternal damnation. yet god loves us, gave us freewill, and is omniscient so knew some of us wouldn't believe in him. yet he still sends us to hell. for literally no reason.

Great post.

 

[theotherside]

Great post.

I agree...post of the month right there.

 

[Myshkin]

so its a religion where only the blind/dumb get to heaven and those with the intelligence to assess situations on the basis of present evidence rather than some old book are punished with eternal damnation. yet god loves us, gave us freewill, and is omniscient so knew some of us wouldn't believe in him. yet he still sends us to hell. for literally no reason.

Now come on, at least Christianity offers that. Plenty of other religions demanded that you worshipped daily with no payoff at all at the end whatsoever. Surely hanging out with the Son of Man, Elvis and Peter Falk holds at least a little appeal for you?

I'll admit that it's hard to see Christianity objectively given its hegemony as the major religion of 'the West' (not to mention its solid presence in 'the East' too). I've met plenty of intelligent Christians and an awful lot of stupid-as-shit atheists, so to play devil's advocate (you see what I did there?) I'll suggest that equating intelligence with atheism (or even agnosticism, which is in my view the more 'intelligent' choice) is a fallacy right up there with worshipping a supposedly omniscient being of whom there is no proof.

Was Pythagoras an atheist? Was he stupid?

Before anyone asks, I'm not a Christian either. Despite some heavy faux-preaching on this site and in real life. Okay?

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

the exclusionary door policy.

undiscovered tribes are sent to hell automatically because they never converted.

plus how stupid you have to be to accept jesus as your saviour, and that he died for our sins, was resurrected and ascended directly to heaven, with no evidence. i read an entire book about the supposed evidence once and it was insulting to someone with a vaguely scientific background. i totally believe that jesus was probably a good bloke, had a decent grasp of psychology, and a horrible death, but this isn't sufficient along with being nice for me to go to heaven.

so its a religion where only the blind/dumb get to heaven and those with the intelligence to assess situations on the basis of present evidence rather than some old book are punished with eternal damnation. yet god loves us, gave us freewill, and is omniscient so knew some of us wouldn't believe in him. yet he still sends us to hell. for literally no reason.

People who have never heard about Christianity are actually automatically given a free pass, just like infants/children/mentally deficient people. There are lots of cases of people being saved in the Old Testament who had never heard of Jesus. Like you say God loves us. The bible can hardly say 'do whatever you want and i'll just let you in any way, nothing is wrong' because then everyone would just run amock. It does state that hell is a place without God, so presumably if you reject God you can't be with him and you wouldn't actually want to be?

Having done a history degree I can say that the historical sources are almost entirely made up (things like Josephus). But a lot of people wrote about what they saw him do and teach, some of those probably also lies, and much the authentic accounts now form the bible we now read today. I don't really know what sources there could be beyond personal accounts of this happening? It's not like they had digital cameras back then. And if such sources did exist wouldn't that jeopardise our freewill somewhat?

The way I see it is that I definitely believe in God, and from there I decided which religion I should follow. Islam is totally ridiculous to me, given there are actual historical sources that state Mohammed married a 6 year old and consumated when she was 9. Hinduism sounds nice but it's a bit crazy, and doesn't acknowledge a universal creator. And I like Buddhism, but I don't see what the end game of it actually is. And I will never be a Jew because I wasn't born one.

Sorry for sidetracking the thread, I do enjoy a good debate.

 

[Acidtek]

I reckon if I'm lucky I might make it to 60, especially if I continue to go the same way going at the moment!

 

[Cornishman]

God is an anagram of dog.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And if such sources did exist wouldn't that jeopardise our freewill somewhat?

yes. you are right, the sciency bits were more about recent archeological digs etc, i don't remember.

but doesn't being told to mindlessly accept some dude as our saviour or we can go to hell jeopardise our free will somewhat?

and yes, we are derailing the thread, i shouldn't. though i also think that a discussion of whether we actually truly die is relevant to when we'll die and an eternal soul, as implied by christianity would state we never die.

maybe you can make another thread about how you came to your religion? i am genuinely interested. funnily enough one of the people i love and respect most in this world was brought up as a hindu and converted to jesus, i'm not just taking digs, i respect you and your opinions (especially since you've clearly thought them out) and also enjoy these debates.

 

[strungout2010]

It's somthing that used to worry me when I was younger. Now I don't give a fuck !
Iv smashed drugs since my very early teens , and since I left the uppers (Stims) alone 15 years ago , I don't freak myself out about me heart givin out , or my brain popin. Iv had a gear habit 20 years and iv worked all the time 6/7 days everyweek,I eat quite well but my sleep is shit , 4/5 hours most nights . I'm as fit and healthy as I was at 18. (and I still act it ) I was 40 on June 13.
Also iv been 11 half stone for 18 years. The One thing that worrys me is my drinking, I drink to much everyday for it not to fuck me some how , so maybe that will be my down fall.
Other then that I'm as fit as fuck ( I hope ) I can prob still get away 25 apart from them fucking grey hairs.

 

[Myshkin]

And I like Buddhism, but I don't see what the end game of it actually is. And I will never be a Jew because I wasn't born one.

No need to apologise for sidetracking the thread. Threads like this tend to go off-topic by their very nature. It's probably a good thing.

With regard to Buddhism, a path that asserts that "everything is sorrow" could hardly have the gall to reward its followers with more sorrow, hence the omission of an 'afterlife' as such.

You can convert to Judaism by the way. It's entirely possible. Whether you'd want to is entirely your own business.

 

[Jabberwocky]

'll suggest that equating intelligence with atheism (or even agnosticism, which is in my view the more 'intelligent' choice) is a fallacy right up there with worshipping a supposedly omniscient being of whom there is no proof.

yes it is fallacious and i was equating them for brevity's sake. it would be better to say

One of these facts is the negative correlation between education and religion, and also between intelligence and religion

from here.

and i'll also say the guy i mentioned above is a lot lot cleverer than me. or anyone else i've ever met. to the point that i now respect some christians, before i met him i dismissed them as a load of idiots, a conclusion i came to after living with them for a month and being taken to a festival full of them.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Now come on, at least Christianity offers that. Plenty of other religions demanded that you worshipped daily with no payoff at all at the end whatsoever. Surely hanging out with the Son of Man, Elvis and Peter Falk holds at least a little appeal for you?

I'll admit that it's hard to see Christianity objectively given its hegemony as the major religion of 'the West' (not to mention its solid presence in 'the East' too). I've met plenty of intelligent Christians and an awful lot of stupid-as-shit atheists, so to play devil's advocate (you see what I did there?) I'll suggest that equating intelligence with atheism (or even agnosticism, which is in my view the more 'intelligent' choice) is a fallacy right up there with worshipping a supposedly omniscient being of whom there is no proof.

Was Pythagoras an atheist? Was he stupid?

Before anyone asks, I'm not a Christian either. Despite some heavy faux-preaching on this site and in real life. Okay?

Thank you for this post. I find it very frustrating when atheists with an IQ of about 80 (i'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, the problem is mostly in real life) get a superiority complex over me for believing - something which I tried numerous times not to have throughout my childhood and adulthood. As if they are cleverer than say Max Planc or C.S. Lewis or something.

At the end of the day I am not actually a particularly 'good' person (I score highly on NPD tests, almost the highest you can score actually, and reasonably highly on psychopathy tests but not quite high enough to be certifiable lol, so I think I lack empathy), and a belief in God/Heaven/Hell has stopped me doing quite a lot of bad things like stealing, and lieing and such. And it has also motivated me to give to charity, which I acknowledge I could have done as an atheist but I also acknowledge I probably would not have done as extensively.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

yes. you are right, the sciency bits were more about recent archeological digs etc, i don't remember.

but doesn't being told to mindlessly accept some dude as our saviour or we can go to hell jeopardise our free will somewhat?

and yes, we are derailing the thread, i shouldn't. though i also think that a discussion of whether we actually truly die is relevant to when we'll die and an eternal soul, as implied by christianity would state we never die.

maybe you can make another thread about how you came to your religion? i am genuinely interested. funnily enough one of the people i love and respect most in this world was brought up as a hindu and converted to jesus, i'm not just taking digs, i respect you and your opinions (especially since you've clearly thought them out) and also enjoy these debates.

I have had this debate with my wife a few times, and it becomes very philosophical and peppered with questions that are effectively deadends because it just comes down to opinion. Things like - doesn't being told you will face the worst punishment you can imagine for not doing 'x' sort of destroy freewill somewhat. But then we as humans face these sort of certainties all the time - for instance almost everyone on this thread knows full well they are going to die from smoking related causes, and it will be horrible and excrutiatingly painful, but they still decide to do it. So the freewill aspect is definitely there - some people will just do it any way, some people will do it a bit, some people see the risks and decide to never ever touch tobacco, so it is sort of a spectrum. That in itself seems unfair, because some people seem to have been born with higher self control.

I am a bit anxious about creating my own thread because I don't want to seem like I am trying to convert people. It will probably attract quite a few people who will act as if I have spat in their eye through my belief in God as well!