West Australian cover story - EZ kit blasted

[Coconut]

Pacman,
Thank god you do give a shit. I was getting a bit worried with the line
"to the point were I dont give a fuck anymore". Thats what really pissed me off.
Now I see you are specifically referring to the police and the media. Its in the context of the EZ Test kit that got me hot under the collar.
But even you have to admit that an open discussion, in the media, here in this forum or face to face, be it good or bad only has to encourage the process to move forward with some positive outcomes. Just look at Nick Miller's article in Tuesdays West(13/6) to see what I am getting at.
So how exactly would you adopt a harm reduction stategy for the casual drug bunny, who just wants to pop the occasional E without doing to much injury to him/her self in the process. If one were not using a kit and did not have access to a forum or the net or a "Pacman" in the know ?
You have a right to your opinion, and so do I. We may agree to disagree. And not everyone is perfect. Thats life and I can live with that. I apologize If my last post seemed a little excessive. It is just that with the Dance and drug culture spreading and becoming more popular, we all must make an effort to ensure that all users are armed with some facts about drug use. If a casual user sees an article about drug use in the mainstream media, and if only for just one fleeting second, they think about what it could be doing to their body, then I think that can only be a positive thing. If it triggers them into digging deeper and finding out the true facts, I am all for it.
BTW How did you know I turn Orange when on E. I am sometimes purple also. But never yellow. Cause I know how you like yellow. Being a Pacman and all.
Hey do you want to F...OFF with me and get out of the scene for a while together, so we can pull a bit of Mary Jane and talk tripe as one, or is that bloody brick wall in place.
Talk to you later dude after I have finished rolling with my "nutty" (very good) freaky mates. Takes a long time to look at the BIG picture.
[This message has been edited by Coconut (edited 14 June 2000).]

 

[GoNeGoOsE]

let's get back to why E-Z kits should be sold and not be blamed as an "accessory" of drug use.
1) Using the test kit will enable users to know what they are throwing into their mouths. True? I should think so, it has been mentioned more then once in this forum
However, the acceptance of E-testing in Australia and in ANY part of the world will lead to the general wide spread use of the kits and even booths/labs outside clubs to test Es. I have heard that this is avail. in Amsterdam and London. Some people decide to read up about Ecstacy before popping it, some others like us are in constant contact with the information of pills floating around, now, How about those people who ignorantly pop it without research?? either on impulse or sheer stupidity??
My point? the acceptance of E-Z kits will eventually lead to the convienance and availability of E testing and THAT will lead to harm reduction and hopefully we will not see anymore E related deaths. A definite win-win situation if u ask me.
Pacman, don't take this personally, but sadly the media AND police CAN and WILL influence public opinion and therefore should we all collectivly decide "not to give a f*^k" then who wins in the end??? it would result in a lose-lose situation.

 

[pacman]

For those that are having trouble understanding my point, know this.
I dont think that the test kits commonly available do any harm. I also dont think they do a great deal in the way of letting the user know if a particular pill will fuck them up or not.
Therefore, I can understand the police, or whoever else, wanting something done about them. Test kits may slightly encourage drug use in the way that a dip shit first timer may mistakenly think that this kit will solve their worries on wheather an E is a danger to them. By this I mean that if someone who hasnt tried ecstacy due to fears of it killing them, then sees a kit like this, they may stupidly think that this kit will prove undeniably that a particular pill is safe. While it will give a general indication as to what the majority of the pill is composed of, its hardly hard fact.
The same may go for a novice who is getting worried about hearing that people are dying from taking ecstacy. Say he gets worried to the point of thinking about giving up ecstacy all together. A test kit may give him false confidence in continuing to use.
Both long shots, maybe. These problems wouldnt bother me or you, but looking from an outsiders point of view, these may have some merit. But you have to remember that ecstacy use, right or wrong, is illegal. While a kit wont entice someone straight out to use, it may in these or other ways.
The police are always talking about their tough stance on drugs and ecstacy, its hardly going to help that appearance if kits that test for ecstacy are readily available.
Users of this kit, thats most of you I know, have evry right to be pissed that its might be taken off the market. Your pissed because you find it helpful in your recreational use of drugs. Dont go hiding behind some bullshit reasons like its a life saving breakthrough.
And no I dont give a shit what the police and media think and say about drugs and their use anymore.
Gonegoose, you say they can and will influence public opinion. I realize that. But they wont influence my opinion because I dont just take a bias article and take it as gospel. I get my beliefs and opinions out of information I gather myself, from whatever sources I see fit. I cant see why, that if there are more people out there who are open minded and who arent just sheep who follow everyone elses thought and opinions, that somehow, there is all of a sudden a lose-lose situation? And its hardly going to cause society to crash if anyone else thinks for them selves either.
As for my opinions to reduce harm to users or solve any problems, I dont know. Thats not what this post was about. I made a suggestion in my first post as to what I would do, but I dont know of a solution. I just dont think that the E-Z test kit is a solution though and I dont think it should be looked at that way.

 

[entropope]

I've recently changed my views on E-Z testers. I used to think of them in a pretty similar way to pacman. And I still understand those views.
Just because a pill tests black doesn't necessarily mean its very good.
But for me, the people I know that use pills, are no longer an experienced crowd that I find the opinions of trustworthy. Previously I cound just get peoples opinions and descriptions of pills and know pretty well what they were like.
Now the people I'm socialising with do not have such qualified opinions. Some have only been pilling since the shyte run of pills around, less than a year. So if they tell me a pill is excellent, it might be a pill thats good, for a speed bomb.
But if they rave about a pill, and I test one black, then I know that it will have a decent dose of MD**. If its tests orange (or anything non black/purple) I politely tell the DD I won't be seeing them for a while, and neither will many of the people I know that go to them.
Pacman I realise you don't have this problem, and if I was in a better situation, I wouldn't be bothered with test kits.

 

[johnboy]

the ez-test is not a solution but it is part of the solution.
the reason why i jumped up and defended this article in the firs place was because it raised some very valid points that we cant ignore.
it has always been exactly what aj wrote on the bottle, a test tat will give you an indication of whether or not an "xtc" like substance is present. no one should be betting their life on it.
but for once we can use the tests existence as proof tha we are making an informed decision on taking MDMA.
we all know that MDMA is not like any other drug and part of the battle to get the wider public to realise that is to create a mature and informed culture around it.
EZ Tests are part of that culture.
Bluelight is part of that culture.
Dancesafe is part of that culture.
you, me and everyone who reads and posts here is part of that culture, and ultimately part of the solution. taking any one of those elements and putting it above the rest is ultimately counter productive, especially if we are anything but completely honest about that element, and any possible problems it might have.

 

[Drave]

Pacman, if u have a better way for me to prevent myself from buying 60 pills full of K please let me know...
I don't think anyone has ever claimed that the ez tester will tell how good a pill is, its pretty fuckin obvious that it only gives you a rough idea of what is in the pill...

 

[pacman]

I never wanted to get into this that much so this will be my last say.
Since my last reply, there has been 3 more replys from other people. All making good points as to how a test kit is valuable in seeing what the generally make up of a pill is. Im not arguing that it doesnt give a fair indication of that. I think it probably does.
You all seem to think im arguing that point. Im not. The fact is, and I think we all agree, the test kit will probably not save anyones life. Therefore its main use, which it is, is to let users know wheather an E is good or not. Surely you all can understand that this hardly discourages ecstacy use. And as ecstacy is illegal, this is going to be frowned apon by the authorities.
I dont want the test kits banned. I was just pointing out that while all you users love them, this is the way the police and media are going to look at them, and maybe something I have written may help some of the more open minded people here understand this.
I hope this clears up what my views are. I dont expect anyone to agree with me. Just try and understand my points for what they are, and look at the issue without a clouded judgement because you use and like test kits.
And finally to Drave, for a novice like yourself a test kit will probably be of great use. But unfortunately im lead to believe that a test kit will not let you know if a pill has ketamine in it or not, which will render it useless for that particular excercise. Sorry.
And I say novice because everyone that I know that is buying as much as 60 pills, would get a few testers to try before they fronted with any large sum of cash.
That generally works.

 

[Darkblade]

I must say that after readimg all of Pacmans posts and those in rebuttal, I have a few good points to make:
Pacman, our knowledge that pills claim very few lives, and of those most of them are not due to bad pills, the media and average person out there doesn't. This works for us. It doesn't matter what the 'real' motivation of buying a tester is for, it's the game that we play witht he media, police and the public that matters. We have to convince the majority of parents that if their kids are going to take ecstacy without their consent, then at least they should be able to do so responsibly, ie let them have the ability to test.
Secondly, it is much quicker, easier and morally standing to use a chemical tester than use human testers. At least it can distinguish some harmful substances and prevent people from having a bad experience. If you want to thest the strength of the pill, let someone take it after you test it.
I don't purchase 60+pills at a time, but I've been pilling for 6 years now, does that qualify me as a novice?
This is not a flame, just my point of view.
DB
------------------
Doesn't "expecting the unexpected" make the unexpected expected?

 

[Drave]

real cute pacman....
i have tried not to make any of my post personal, but fuck it, u r starting to sound like a real wanker...
Re. your point bout testing for K, if a pill manufacturer has gone to the trouble to put MDxx in a pill, its unlikely that they have put ketamine in it. So by testing a pill black/purple i feel a shit load safer if/when i do take the first pill. I am amazed that an self proclaimed "expert" like yourself is happy either accept someone elses judgement on a pill, or try an untested pill yourself. U obviously don't care too much bout what shit u swallow.
Put simply: i don't think that we all agree that pill tests couldn't help to save someones life.
Finally, I don't really give a fuck whether these test kits r for readily available or not, i got mine via mail order, i just thought it might help someone else who doesn't have a credit card or a mailing address...

 

[Biscuit]

not buying into the current argument but since this orginally was about what the West was saying about pills and testers, here is a little gem from Geraldine Mullins of the family council of W.A.
"Pure XTC is an amphetamine derivative which has hallucinogenic and stimulant effects, causes seizures and vomiting, loss of reality and irrational behaviour. Users can become addicted...other drugs are often used to dry and bring them down and make them feel normal??!!
of course she mentioned anna wood.
i am just like f%%%%%%CCCKKK
she has highlighted the most rarest of side effects which occur only if u r silly and take multiple pills. not to mention some statements which r fundamentally wrong.
i mean couldn't u say similar things about alcohol and what happens when u overindulge in that.
I know what u guys will say..shes just some idiot that doesnt know what they're talking about and its come to be expected.
That is true but what irks me is she has been given a massive 20cm long spiel in the letters to the editor column with a big fucking headline. so thousands of uneducated people r gonna read this bitch's shit and take it as gospel.
it really really pisses me off. id love to give her a piece of my mind but sadly i've already had my say.

 

[GoOsH]

hmmmmm.... interesting topic

my 2 cents. I support the use of EZ-test kits, and I'm not gonna say they're great because they save lives, fact is, they tell me if the real deal is in my pill, and with the amount of ppl spouting shit about some of the speed bombs and K pills around atm, I'm gonna trust a chemical reaction a shitload more than the guy selling me the pills, or even other ppl who have taken them. btw, if u bother to put MD** in ur pill i'd be very surprised if u'd bother to put any other shite in it, so i figure the reaction is my safest bet, i know i'm getting what i am looking for.
And as far as the life saving quality of these kits, well the less bunk pills i take the more i reduce my chances of dying don't u think? though it's not a certainty, nothing in life is, it definitely lessens my chances of dying, whether it saved my life, only popping that bunk pill would have told me...
most of the pills around atm don't come in huge batches, u usually only hear about the pill for a couple of weeks, thats the nature of the game. So, in a lot of cases you don't have the luxury of having a couple of testers before the buy, so having something like the ez tester makes life a hell of alot ezier, even if u don't know the strength u can be certain on the substance, which is a good thing.
As far as the police's opinion on the subject, well they're not gonna read this (probably) so they can lick my hairy balls, they're stance on drugs and drug equipment is not gonna change so fuk em i say

I wish my opinion could make a difference but with those guys i'm afraid it ain't gonna happen
ah well, least i got 1 of those sweeeet white mitsis left (and it tested black too, surprise surprise hehhehehe)