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Well versed in Magic and Psychedelics.

The Catholic Church = Magick? Man, would Catholics ever have a Holy Cow over that equation. And I think there are probably practitioners of Magick who would seriously balk as well.

Catholics I think feel what they are doing normally is operating at a metaphorical and spiritual level, with only God Himself rather rarely breaking normal physical laws to intervene via supernatural action on the physical universe, which are termed "miracles." These are NOT ordinary occurrences, but the exception rather than the rule, to the extent that the Vatican investigates such purported occasional events and declares them true miracles or not.

Whereas Magick as I thought I understood it seeks to and believes it invokes supernatural forces much more directly manipulated via the participants themselves via their mental and ritual mastery of the forces of nature and the higher level spiritual Law beyond these rules to break or bend normal events and processes of physics and change physical reality on a routine and frequent basis, at least that is the intent, I thought, so I would think most would see the two as extremely different things. I have read Crowley's "The Book of Lies" (actually a rather beautiful work of philosophy and poetry), and some things about the nature of Magick, and that is what I though was meant.

But perhaps I have it all completely wrong.
 
This really isn't the place to start up this debate but when I said go to a Catholic church, I meant look at their ritualistic way of doing things. Candles, the rosary, these are all tools to enhance their prayer, which is an active form of magick.

The connection with "God" as it were is something that is innate in all of us and we all have the capability to access that "God" energy. Some people need more push than others to find "God" within themselves. Mainstream religion stole pretty much every Pagan holiday and made it their own. The best example is Halloween - everyone gets all dressed up and goes out to celebrate the Pagan new year without even realizing it. Look up Samhain and the origin of Christian holidays. You might be quite surprised.

There is nothing supernatural about magick - magick comes from within - the energy to perform the magick is what doesn't.
 
maybe a bit OT, but: I came to the conclusion, that psychedelics are the philosopher's stone (at least) alchemists have been searching for hundreds of years. alchemy is not about turning shit into gold, it's about turning something coarse into something noble. it's about inner transformation.
did anyone read c.g. jung on the topic?

psychonauts are the alchemists of our time. :)
 
Roll up a druid, cleric, bard, wizard, sorcerer, ranger, or paladin and you will see how much magic has to do with Dungeons and Dragons.
 
I find all of this very interesting indeed,i have mixed thoughts and feelings on it,one half of me is completely cynical and the other half is open and knowing,i`m torn.

But having had bad experiences with certain people that purport to be what they are not i.e healers,clairvoyants,shamanic pratitioners etc etc it has made me of late become really anti spiritual,even though deep down i do believe.I think that i`m a closet believer,but my rational mind and firm logic in my thinking tells me different...I think i could go mad on the subject lol.
 
Hey MagickalKat777 - yea, I know all that. Now I understand what you were saying was not so much about the philosophical content of the rites, but about the trappings being not too far off... special garments, candles, spoken phrases, gestures, incense, etc. Also I am well aware of the origins of Halloween. And also of the routes to be in touch/communion with Higher Consciousness that are an innate part of all of us.
 
It's important to understand that the difference between "stage magic" and "magick" is really a difference in degree and not in quality. "Magick", i.e. ritual, ceremonial magic, is itself not about violating natural law but about manipulating perception and manipulating consciousness. Any practical effects that it brings about in the world are due entirely to the effects on the mind of the practitioner, not to anything spooky (unless you're willing to grant that the human mind is itself a spookier thing than most people will ever know).

It may be useful to hear it from the horse's mouth:

"There is the story of the American in the train who saw another American carrying a basket of unusual shape. His curiosity mastered him, and he leant across and said: "Say, stranger, what you got in that bag?" The other, lantern-jawed and taciturn, replied: "mongoose". The first man was rather baffled, as he had never heard of a mongoose. After a pause he pursued, at the risk of a rebuff: "But say, what is a Mongoose?" "Mongoose eats snakes", replied the other. This was another poser, but he pursued: "What in hell do you want a Mongoose for?" "Well, you see", said the second man (in a confidential whisper) "my brother sees snakes". The first man was more puzzled than ever; but after a long think, he continued rather pathetically: "But say, them ain't real snakes". "Sure", said the man with the basket, "but this Mongoose ain't real either".
This is a perfect parable of Magick. There is no such thing as truth in the perceptible universe; every idea when analysed is found to contain a contradiction. It is quite useless (except as a temporary expedient) to set up one class of ideas against another as being "more real". The advance of man towards God is not necessarily an advance towards truth. All philosophical systems have crumbled. But each class of ideas possesses true relations within itself."
- Crowley, Magick in Theory and Practice
 
Well said Psychodelerium,you totally hit the nail on the head with this one,i understand exactly what your saying :)
 
bluelightdotcom said:
I tried to play D&D the first time I took mushrooms. I ended up sitting on the floor the whole time pinching my arm with a pair of vice grips. Psychs are best saved for celebration after the dragon is slain.
Click to expand...

Heh, it's difficult enough to play stoned, let alone on a heavy tryptamine. It always sounds like a great idea, but you can't expect a group of people tripping to be able to concentrate on role playing.

mm, how to I calculate THACO again?
dude, have you looked at the 100 sided die? no I'm super serial, just LOOK at it!

you get the idea...
 
Tunnelfission said:
I can do some psychic stuff, but I don't know about magic...

oh and super-human martial arts, either that or i'm just incredibly powerful... :D
Click to expand...



The other day i watched a guy on tv roll up a frying pan like a burrito with ease, and wasn't totally jacked or anything. His strength to size proportion was way out of wack. They ran some tests on him and the muscular version of torque basically in his body is way stronger than usual, though it was pretty cool.

Although its not surprising considering our brains have a "block" against us being able to use a fraction of our true strength. That's where stories of people lifting up cars and shit to save people come from. The strength is reserved for insanely intense situations and in many people even then it wont be triggered. Although im sure we would all train our minds with enough meditation.

Enough rambling >.<
 
Humans arent particularly strong but we are potentially very smart, using the body in more efficient ways to exert force on an intent is much more effective than using animal strength against it...

Bruce Lee
 
Psychodelirium said:
It's important to understand that the difference between "stage magic" and "magick" is really a difference in degree and not in quality. "Magick", i.e. ritual, ceremonial magic, is itself not about violating natural law but about manipulating perception and manipulating consciousness. Any practical effects that it brings about in the world are due entirely to the effects on the mind of the practitioner, not to anything spooky (unless you're willing to grant that the human mind is itself a spookier thing than most people will ever know).

It may be useful to hear it from the horse's mouth:

"There is the story of the American in the train who saw another American carrying a basket of unusual shape. His curiosity mastered him, and he leant across and said: "Say, stranger, what you got in that bag?" The other, lantern-jawed and taciturn, replied: "mongoose". The first man was rather baffled, as he had never heard of a mongoose. After a pause he pursued, at the risk of a rebuff: "But say, what is a Mongoose?" "Mongoose eats snakes", replied the other. This was another poser, but he pursued: "What in hell do you want a Mongoose for?" "Well, you see", said the second man (in a confidential whisper) "my brother sees snakes". The first man was more puzzled than ever; but after a long think, he continued rather pathetically: "But say, them ain't real snakes". "Sure", said the man with the basket, "but this Mongoose ain't real either".
This is a perfect parable of Magick. There is no such thing as truth in the perceptible universe; every idea when analysed is found to contain a contradiction. It is quite useless (except as a temporary expedient) to set up one class of ideas against another as being "more real". The advance of man towards God is not necessarily an advance towards truth. All philosophical systems have crumbled. But each class of ideas possesses true relations within itself."
- Crowley, Magick in Theory and Practice
Click to expand...

Perfect. Even though I hate Crowley... That is the perfect description.
 
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