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  • AADD Moderators: andyturbo

Welcome to the NEW new Bluelight!

Nice reply vurt :-)

Of course, I disagree on several points, which I'll cover quickly now - but thanks for taking the time to consider my post. I'd also like to say that I'm not against changes - nor am I advocating that all the changes are bad or even that I'm 100% correct in my views. I'm simply expressing a personal opinion, and I'm also suggesting that more thought needs to be put into how the features of the forum affect the community that builds around it. In the the article I referenced, it is very strongly concluded that "small [forum] implementation details result in big differences in the way the community develops, behaves, and feels", and I really think this has to be considered more.

On the topic of no. of posts, avatars, etc. You agree with my point, and yet your only rationale for keeping them is that other forums have them, that people can deal with them, and that there are social hierarchies already present. My response would be simple - just because other forums have them is not a good indicator of their usefulness, and just because social hierarchies will form in other ways, why should we add anything to the system to encourage it? And as for "fail[ing] to see why bluelight should be any different" to other places where there are strong social hierarchies - I counter, why should it be the same? I don't think bluelight has had a strong hierarchical aspect in the past, so why should we not strive to maintain that? Of course I agree that there will be social hierarchies emerge based on who is 'in the know' on certain topics and who is not, but there is not need to try and advertise it via (misleading) status symbols like post counts and avatars.

On the use of graphics, etc. My point regarding the reduction of 'quality' simply refers to the fact that I don't think fancy graphics, etc, really provide any additional quality of information or discussion for the page space they consume. By spacing everything else, the quantity and hence the quality is less.

As for users becoming "dry faceless san serif text on a flat forum page", I counter that a users comments will only become dry if that user has nothing interesting to say - and in that situation no amount of fonts or coloring will help. There is a good reason why books of all styles are still printed in a simple san serif or similar font on a flat printed page - because what is important is the content, not the way it is presented (the exception being to differentiate titles, subtitles, etc - and I would hope that we aren't encouraging too many posts of a length that requires that!).

I would also refer back to my original premise of why bluelight has a good community - because "the information is good". Fonts and colors do nothing to help improve the actual information that people are conveying. As for adding "personality and characteristics", I think that someone personality or characters are far more apparent by what they say rather than the style they use to say it.

The quote reply button. I'm rather glad that you didn't quote my post again. Because in reality it's just above your own post and I'm sure people didn't want to read it twice. My point with regards to this was that quoting text is not very useful to someone who has actually read the thread - and I would hope that anybody actually looking at a post would be considerate enough to read the original material leading up to it. Quoting text is useful if there is a specific comment or statement you wish to single out (and then only if it isn't more appropriate to actually write something like "as joe said..."), so I figure it shouldn't be made easy for people to quote more than they need to. But I agree this is nit-picking, but it's an example of the sort of thinking I'm trying to advocate.

I agree with your discussion regarding the ability to jump to the last page of a discussion, except for the conclusion that "doing so is detrimental to the user and it is his/her loss. unfortunately it is not something we can, or should, control". If a user posts into a thread without reading the prior discussion it is detrimental to the thread itself, lowering the quality of the discussion via repeated statements or statements that disregard previous material, and this is something that is a loss to everyone. I also fail to see why this isn't something we can or should try to control.

On private messaging, etc. Your correct, I didn't realise that I could only have 2 buddies on my list. Which really relegates that feature into the "entirely useless" category instead of the "not what bluelight is about" one. I'm also curious how the "online status" helps to bolster status as a community? All it really tells me is that very few people are actually online most of the time, whereas previously I thought everyone spent all day on bluelight ;-) And you didn't answer how you plan to monitor dealing via pm ;-)

Email notification / thread subscription. I agree that if a user chooses to only visit bluelight when there is a reply to their post, then it is their loss. But I think you miss the point that it is also a loss to the wider community because they spend their time answering someone who has no intent to reciprocate. If a user is forced to come back to see if there are replies it gives the forum additional opportunities to draw them into discussion and hence into the community. Of course it is arguable that bluelight already has a large enough community that it doesn't need to worry about drawing people in, but I wouldn't be too sure.

On post deletion - I don't think you actually need to remove post editing as well. Post editing can be useful although it needs to be done carefully. Post deletion is just plain annoying.

On a final note, more in reply to ~jerox~, I agree that adding a bit of 'spice' to the forum, on top of the already good discussion, is a nice thing. I just think it needs to be carefully considered and done in a way that doesn't encourage behavior that could change the community dynamic currently enjoyed.
 
Well, it appears mort has picked everything to hate, but ill answer these - theyll answer other peoples questions.


extra features: if the software comes with them, and our server can easily handle it, and it actually takes extra work to remove them, then im all for it.

avatars: Already done and finished. No longer a topic I care to even think about.

Number of posts, Join date, Avatars: while I do not personally care either way about these things, they were decided in public over the course of months. For now at least, the choice is made.

Quote button: has been here for ages. Once you get used to it, it is very useful for more things than quoting to the same thread. This software did not introduce it to this site.

Ability to jump to the last page: I didnt like this either. Earlier this week it reached the top of my "to do" list, and now the thread listing of long threads is much better following a quick hack.

Thread view count: Its there, we can. Wastes server load, but we have it to waste.

Status: Another one where its there... we can.

Subscribed threads: This is proving very useful for mods and other users... theyre finding uses for such things as subscribing to entire forums to build quick links that I never thought of.

Post deletion: Nothing new here - was the same before... if you dont like it then start a thread about it in the A&F forum and if others feel the same it can change.

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Pretty much it can be put like this:

This software comes with a *shitload* more features. When you also consider that we have a brand spanking new server, we have processing to burn. There's no point wasting our time by deliberately destroying features. For the time being, we're trying them out. Of various ones dont work, then we will know in the end instead of wondering.


----------------------------

hacks ive done this week, which might have been features ppl have mentioned:

- Forum headers system coded (we now have the best header system ive seen for this type of board... as far as i know anyway)

- Forum listing of long threads improved from "1 2 3 4 .. Last" to "1 2 3 4 ... 23 24 25 26"

- Link added to top right of posts to allow linking to specific posts again

- Fonts and tables reconfigured to relative measurements

:)
 
BTW... if you dont like all the features and graphics, you can always click the "show printable version" down the bottom... ;)
 
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