Weightloss

[Pagey]

Thanks for your answer S_L!
I'll try to get myself motivated to do those exercises. I'd kind of stopped doing push-ups because between that and the ~10h of judo I did every week I was getting massive shoulders...but I should probably start up again. As for the sprinting, I'm curious as to why this is better than jogging? Not saying you're wrong, I just hadn't heard that before!

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

Do you mean going to the gym that much is unhealthy because I'm pysically overworking myself or were you referring more to the psychological aspect?

I'm pretty sure he just means you're wasting time, when you could be minimizing your time at teh gym.

what is this "high impact trianing is good for your constitution" nonsense? unsure what someone's "constitution" is.. i guess i hear that as some antiquated word, and didn't know it was still in modern usage (ie, "this tonic is good for the constitution")
/cannot fathom what the thinking is behind recommending high-impact training to someone tho... if they need it for specific reasons (ie a sport or whatever) then yes, but didn't know that was relevant to pagie.
//also unsure why an old diet for yogi's would be advisable (or even relevant) to her. Your eastern ways = everything you need schtick holds weight in some yoga stuff, but not wrt training/diet. i cringe thinking what kind of diet/training routine you would put together for her, and the logic you'd use in creating it

Don't tell me what I am saying is nonsense when you have no idea what I am talking about, and lose your arrogance boy, as it is not based on anything real other than ignorance.

I have never said and would never say eastern ways are everything you need, that would be retarded; except in a lot of instances they have what we need SIMPLY because their civilizations of old had more extensive knowledge of diet, medicine, exercise, and how to live in tune with our planet, than we do in the west today on average.

Obviously we have technological advancements on so many levels they never had, but when it comes to the fundamentals, they had everything and more than we had, and we are still learning from them today, their ways are seeping over here, because our civilizations are less evolved.

I tell her high impact exercise appears to be what she needs simply because of her build. If she provided me with the information I could help her way more than you ever could because you know next to nothing about her, other than what exercises she is currently doing, which could be totally wrong for her mind-body type, and therefore in the long run damage her health.

 

[Pagey]

^Chill dude, he's just trying to help

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

Me too, if you didn't see my post to you.

 

[modern buddha]

Thanks for your answer S_L!
I'll try to get myself motivated to do those exercises. I'd kind of stopped doing push-ups because between that and the ~10h of judo I did every week I was getting massive shoulders...but I should probably start up again. As for the sprinting, I'm curious as to why this is better than jogging? Not saying you're wrong, I just hadn't heard that before!

Jogging... Oy. Here's a story I'll share with you:

Whenever I used to jog, I'd notice my skin become very red and hloated looking. I always wondered if that was safe until I read a fantastic book on whu jogging all the time might actually be doing you harm. It causes inflammation in your body as your body fights the fatigue. I won't go into too much detail here, but sprinting, on the other hand, forces your body to work every muscle it has simultaniously. It is probably one of the best, if not the best, exercise you can perform. It's a total body shred, helps you to become faster, stronger, leaner and more defined.

Have you ever taken a look at the difference between an endurance runner's body and a sprinter ( or other high intensity, short time sport)'s body? The endurance runner usually looks thin, on the fragile side and can sometimes be pale! The sprinter looks lean, ripped, strong...

 

[Pagey]

Hmm okay that's interesting, I didn't know that - thanks.
I had indeed noticed the difference in appearance between endurance runners in sprinters, but I just sort of figured that's because endurance runners need the lean muscles whereas sprinters need the stocky ones so that their bodies will react faster.
The thing with sprinting is that I'm not too sure how I could do it enough for it to actually change something? I mean I suppose you'd probably have to do a fair number of sprints a day for it to make a difference considering they're so short?
What I've been doing is jogging for about 20mn, increasing the speed every 2 or 3 mn, and in the last 1 minute I usually sprint as fast as I can so I guess that's something but given what you jsut said about jogging I might substitute it with swimming.

I've also added the push-ups & squats to my routine.
I forced myself to weigh myself this morning and I've lost about half a kilo since the beginning of the week, so if I lose about a kilo a week I think that should be a good, healthy pace

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

Borj, the aggression is unnecessary. We all have different ideas and that's OK - in fact the variety of opinions makes BL the hive of information it is.

Pagey - I'm exactly the same when it comes to using a scale. I refuse to have one in the house, as for me personally, it causes unhealthy obsessing. I also have issues with calorie counting - but again that's just me.

My point is, only you know what is best for your own body and mind. Feel free to do things your way and ditch the scales - I think judging the way your clothes fit is a perfectly legitimate way of monitoring your progress.

Also re: jogging being "bad" for you - you can find data on any opinion there is.

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

^ it was not aggression, aggression is unjust. This is called righteous passion. There's a difference - unfortunately there's only so much you can really convey with writing and not the spoken word.

I know we all have our own opinions and knowledge and way of doing things - I have tried a lot of things over the past 8 years - I just appear to have more holistic knowledge than him, hence why him saying MY advice is ridiculous nonsense is hilarious - I would've given the same advice as him about 4 years ago, before I really tried a whole lot more things, and learnt a lot more.

I totally agree with you about the scale thing - from my observations women put waaaay too much obsessive compulsiveness into weighing themselves - almost every gal I known more than casually, bar maybe a handful or 2.

Jogging is not good for the knees - power walking or running are THE WAY - however if you don't have an irregular digestion+poor circulation+prone to anxiety(and therefore probably prone to arthritis and knee troubles), chances are it's not AS bad for your knees.

I would never recommend ANYONE goes jogging though . Running for mid-heavy set people, power walking for slender/irregular metabolism people.

EDIT:I didn't wanna post this in the nudie thread because they're a bunch of animals BUT Pagey ***SNIP***throw away that scale, pick up a victory smoothie or something healthy to celebrate with - you are looking seriously hot - I don't think you need to lose any weight at all if this was taken in the past week, M - I will say if there's ANYTHING you could do, toning would be it, but mmm very beautiful. The healthiest I have seen you looking yet.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm pretty sure he just means you're wasting time, when you could be minimizing your time at teh gym.

isolation moves are a waste of time relative to compound moves; given her current volume, i'd definitely recommend dropping them (or...replace them w/ proper work ie compound lifts for anaerobic work, and hiit-styled work for cardio/conditioning[hiit; crossfit; p90; intervals/crosstrain; *whatever* you wanna term it])
I don't see you needing more work pagie, i'd drop the inefficient isolation work (or move it in the schedule, and use it as more of an 'active recovery' type time, IF you have the equipment easily accessible ie at home/office)


Re running v. jogging- running short bursts ('HIIT' style) is superior to steady-pacing for htings like calories burned in a given time; increasing V02max; recruitment of typeI fibers (which are only of little use in regular-paced jogging). Basically, you work your heart and body better, so you can fit 20min of roadwork into 10-15min, or get far more out of a given 20min.

Don't tell me what I am saying is nonsense when you have no idea what I am talking about, and lose your arrogance boy, as it is not based on anything real other than ignorance.

how i come across is based on 'ignorance'. you're "more holistic".
okay dude, you're entitled an opinion- just state yours and i'll state mine, and we can leave it at that. ppl can usually figure it out from there ;]

except in a lot of instances they have what we need SIMPLY because their civilizations of old had more extensive knowledge of diet, medicine, exercise, and how to live in tune with our planet, than we do in the west today on average.

Obviously we have technological advancements on so many levels they never had, but when it comes to the fundamentals, they had everything and more than we had, and we are still learning from them today, their ways are seeping over here, because our civilizations are less evolved.

i'll never understand the line of thinking that these old civilizations had 'more extensive knowledge' of anyhting. modern society is more advanced and, due to the nature of advancement in general, these advances retained what they needed from many/most older periods. how you can see our dietary (or medicinal or most any) knowledge as being less extensive or less advanced than older cultures just boggles my mind. i wonder if our definitions of "extensive", "knowledge", etc are not the same..

If she provided me with the information I could help her way more than you ever could because you know next to nothing about her, other than what exercises she is currently doing, which could be totally wrong for her mind-body type, and therefore in the long run damage her health.

if she provided you with info? by that, i presume you mean if she filled out that yogi-questionnaire you asked her to, then you'd write her a diet? real thorough.
/actually, i do know most of what i'd need to help pagie.. it's actually weird how much you find out about ppl just being around a bit.

I know we all have our own opinions and knowledge and way of doing things - I have tried a lot of things over the past 8 years - I just appear to have more holistic knowledge than him, hence why him saying MY advice is ridiculous nonsense is hilarious - I would've given the same advice as him about 4 years ago, before I really tried a whole lot more things, and learnt a lot more.

and i never would've given your advice, ever.
you would've given advice like i do, 4yrs ago? but then you learned 'past' that, and have moved onto and stuff like this:

I tell her high impact exercise appears to be what she needs simply because of her build.

Jogging is not good for the knees - power walking or running are THE WAY - however if you don't have an irregular digestion+poor circulation+prone to anxiety(and therefore probably prone to arthritis and knee troubles), chances are it's not AS bad for your knees.

I would never recommend ANYONE goes jogging though . Running for mid-heavy set people, power walking for slender/irregular metabolism people.

something tells me this path of learnin didn't hold things like 'credible'/objective/book/science/etc in too-high regards.

/does her 'build' = 'her constitution'? are you referring to her build now, her build as an athlete, or her build at her skinniest?[am unsure how many pics of her you've seen]
//the textbooks, they don't have a definition for "constitution"..

your contrasting of walk/jog/run is off-base and makes a mess out of their pro's/con's. your linking to digestion/circulation/anxiety (and further linking of anxiety to knee pain) is without merit and, frankly, reads like quack-nonsense. this co-opting of the term 'holistic' is the reason that fact-based / objective practitioners fear using the word 'holistic', despite how holistic they approach their work or how important a concept it is to them. the lay person sees it more akin to 'energy' and 'homeopathy', than a true, respectable approach (am sure you're quite into "energies" and homeopathy as well..)

pick up a victory smoothie

is that a 'chi' thing? or more like freedom fries?

I will say if there's ANYTHING you could do, toning would be it, but mmm very beautiful.

'toning'?
/do not think that word means what you think it does. i promise you her muscle tone is fine.

 

[Pagey]

COTB - thanks for your answer! I should have stuck with what we both said and not weighed myself - I gave in this morning and appeared to have actually put on 300g (?!) which really annoyed me. I don't really understand as I've been following my diet perfectly for the last week, 1700-1800 calories eaten a day and 300 burned at the gym. I guess it just takes time for it to kick in?

bmxxx - I think I'll drop the isolation work then. I feel pretty good about how this exercise pattern is going, I feel more in shape and it's not exhausting me too much or anything. I am kinda worried about that weight gain thing though

I also had a question - I've read on a few different diet websites/message boards that having a day of 'binge' eating once every week or so is all right - like a day where you don't count the calories and can indulge more. Apparently this si good because it boosts your metabolism and will make you more likely to lose weight afterwards. Does anyone have any experience with this/ know if it's true? I do have a history of compulsive eating (I am using binge-eating in the literal sense of eating gigantic amounts, feeling sick afterwards and hating yourself) and although I'm doing much better with it now, I'm not sure I'm going to manage to avoid that during the whole duration of the diet so it would certainly be great for me if allowing that once a week weren't counter-productive

 

[Jabberwocky]

if you take in an extra 1-2k calories during that day, you'd need to eat that much less through the other 6d of the week.. honestly, there's no reason that wouldn't work, but in practice i wouldn't recommend a diet like that.

 

[Pagey]

Okay thanks

 

[Serotonin101]

eat clean, lift big, sleep well, get your macros/micros in, repeat. I think that about covers it for us bmxxx
then for cutting (trimming in my case) make sure calories in<calories out.
also give up all sweets and fight through the cravings for a couple weeks and you wont crave them anymore (the thought of sweets doesn't even cross my mind anymore). ill stand puzzled in the kitchen after eating dinner going "hmm what should I have for dessert?" and grab some bread and peanut butter and make a sandwich. that's my dessert. Idk what it is, but after cutting back on sodium I been getting salt cravings more than any sweet cravings. I guess it too shall pass.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^you're getting the point for the most part ;] (for ppl looking to bulk)

why the fuck are you cutting back on sodium?

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

having a day of 'binge' eating once every week or so is all right - like a day where you don't count the calories and can indulge more. Apparently this si good because it boosts your metabolism and will make you more likely to lose weight afterwards. Does anyone have any experience with this/ know if it's true? I do have a history of compulsive eating (I am using binge-eating in the literal sense of eating gigantic amounts, feeling sick afterwards and hating yourself) and although I'm doing much better with it now, I'm not sure I'm going to manage to avoid that during the whole duration of the diet so it would certainly be great for me if allowing that once a week weren't counter-productive

This is what animals who hunt their prey, or scavenge, do in the wild. I wouldn't advise it - you are a human being!

I can't see how it would boost your metabolism, other than that your digestive fires would need to try and burn off a lot of excess, your body would waste a lot of that food next day through excretion, whatever it couldn't immediately deal with would turn into toxins, your body would then digest the toxins over the days you are more or less fasting (body burns fat/whatever it can get after 4 hours of not eating), then intermittently go into starvation mode.

It would be much healthier to just eat 2 (or 3) fine sized meals per day. For breakfast I would highly suggested a big bowl of stewed fruits, with a touch of demerara sugar/honey drizzled after, if you don't like/feel the immediate urge to eat hefty breakfasts.

You want to boost your metabolism? Eat properly combined foods - your exercise regime alone is giving it the boost you need.

Also a day of binge eating will just strengthen any remnants of a hold this compulsive eating you used to indulge in has over you.

All in all - I wouldn't do it unless I was living in the wild, and had no idea when my next meal would be - you will be much sleepier, feel toxic, need to nap (slows down metabolism) more etc

 

[Serotonin101]

^you're getting the point for the most part ;] (for ppl looking to bulk)

why the fuck are you cutting back on sodium?

I guess I was eating too much of it (I really like salt lol) and was retaining a bit of water.

 

[Jabberwocky]

This is what animals who hunt their prey, or scavenge, do in the wild. I wouldn't advise it - you are a human being!

I can't see how it would boost your metabolism, other than that your digestive fires would need to try and burn off a lot of excess, your body would waste a lot of that food next day through excretion, whatever it couldn't immediately deal with would turn into toxins, your body would then digest the toxins over the days you are more or less fasting (body burns fat/whatever it can get after 4 hours of not eating), then intermittently go into starvation mode.

It would be much healthier to just eat 2 (or 3) fine sized meals per day. For breakfast I would highly suggested a big bowl of stewed fruits, with a touch of demerara sugar/honey drizzled after, if you don't like/feel the immediate urge to eat hefty breakfasts.

You want to boost your metabolism? Eat properly combined foods - your exercise regime alone is giving it the boost you need.

Also a day of binge eating will just strengthen any remnants of a hold this compulsive eating you used to indulge in has over you.

All in all - I wouldn't do it unless I was living in the wild, and had no idea when my next meal would be - you will be much sleepier, feel toxic, need to nap (slows down metabolism) more etc

^that's exactly the kind of shit i mentioned to you before. "whatever couldn't immediately deal with would turn into toxins". that is not remotely accurate; it's not just 'not true', it's dead-wrong. as is a lot of other stuff in that post [not going to bother breaking it down]

the idea of IF/intermittent fasting is an excellent approach for many reasons, pagie, but if you google you'll find proper approaches and see why the binge-day, at least as you wrote of it, isn't close to as on-point as you could be (leangains website is a great spot for a ton of 'intro to IF' principles. IF underpins most of teh great diets i know of, for instance if you wanna get reallll hardcore, bulletproof IF is pretty hard to beat [a highly modified/superior paleo-type approach; IMO this is overkill for 99% of ppl, who would benefit tremendously just from understanding/implementing the basic principles of things like IF, understanding macro's and food qualities, proper training[ie sufficient but not too much; smart, efficient moves; understanding of / application of progressive-overload principles, etc etc etc]

I guess I was eating too much of it (I really like salt lol) and was retaining a bit of water.

if you're getting salt cravings- EAT SALT! it's a very important (and undeservedly hated) nutrient. better to have too much salt than too little, plz plz remember that ;]

 

[Serotonin101]

I used to salt literally everything. its like something is missing when I eat. craving was too strong of a word I suppose. I eat a lot of eggs and I salt the fuck out of em. pasta- add salt. corn- add salt all vegetables I add salt, all meats I use high sodium condiments. so basically I'm settling for a healthy sodium intake now lol. the desire to salt everything has diminished a lot though. now I just salt my eggs.

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

The NEED for more information to diagnose

^ It's true.
Anything sitting in your GI tract is going to fester and ferment or putrefy. Your body just eats away at whatever it can get when fasting.

Hence why going on a fast for 2 days, will cleanse you - your body breaks down and digest or excretes the toxins you have accumulated.

Very simple concepts - very simple truths. Don't start - especially if you can't be assed to finish bruv.

I'm not saying you're a dumbass, you obviously know what you are talking about in your limited scope, but you overcomplicate things.

Intermittent fasting is what helped me put on weight with minimal efforts to gain and maintain.

But food that cannot be digested or excreted sits in your GI tract, and waits for somewhere to go - check your tongue every morning and you will see what I'm talking about, analyze your bowel movements and the colour of your urine and YOU WILL SEE just how simple it is.

Serotonin - I feel ya dude, it's hard to eat less salted food for a while, when you've conditioned yourself to eat too much.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ It's true.
Anything sitting in your GI tract is going to fester and ferment or putrefy. Your body just eats away at whatever it can get when fasting.

Hence why going on a fast for 2 days, will cleanse you - your body breaks down and digest or excretes the toxins you have accumulated.

Very simple concepts - very simple truths. Don't start - especially if you can't be assed to finish bruv.

I'm not saying you're a dumbass, you obviously know what you are talking about in your limited scope, but you overcomplicate things.

Intermittent fasting is what helped me put on weight with minimal efforts to gain and maintain.

But food that cannot be digested or excreted sits in your GI tract, and waits for somewhere to go - check your tongue every morning and you will see what I'm talking about, analyze your bowel movements and the colour of your urine and YOU WILL SEE just how simple it is.

Serotonin - I feel ya dude, it's hard to eat less salted food for a while, when you've conditioned yourself to eat too much.

honestly, i think you would really dig the wikipedia page on 'digestion' or 'digestion in humans', it really helped me understand the basics of digestion a while back (i'm not trying to be snarky or anything, just the way you write about what happens to food, i think you would find the page illuminating)