Weightloss

[modern buddha]

^ I have to ask, then, if you're not eating animals and you're not eating animal products, but you don't eat a lot of grains, how are you getting enough calories each day?

Also, I have followed a vegan diet for a short while (about six months?). I ate a lot of beans and I felt bloated and tired a lot.

 

[Libby]

I eat a lot of veggies and fruit, and I eat legumes and I do eat some grains, and some oil or occasionally nuts/seeds. My calorie intake is probably a bit lower than it should be as I am underweight and I am trying to lose weight (not a lot, I like to be 47kg-50kg and I was 50.4kg when last weighed couple days ago). I could get more calories by eating more food without changing the structure of my diet, I am just restricting at the moment because, well because I am a bit too strict on myself to be honest and It'd probably be healthier if I could losen up a bit more about my weight. However I am only mildly underweight there are people this thin naturally who are healthy so I figure as long as I get all my nutrients (and I do take a potent multi-vitamin just in case I could do with an added boost, it's easier to assimilate nutrients from food than pills I know, I am not relying on it, it's just a safeguard) I can be healthy and maintain my weight at a range I can live with, oppose to gain weight closer to "normal" then freak out and get stuck in the cycle of starving and binging that results, and also not feel the need to continue losing weight beyond my set low point, 10 years on from AN, though I bet it still sounds a bit not quite right, I am healthier than I've ever been.

6 months is a pretty good stint I would have expected you to be feeling good after six months on a vegan diet. Were you just eating too many gassey type foods when you were vegan perhaps?, too many beans broccoli cabbage etc (all these foods are healthy but too much can make some people gassey and bloated), Also were you eating a lot of white flour, sugar, breads? Stodge can bloat people up. Maybe probiotics could have helped?

A vegan diet is high in fibre, usually this helps with elimination but if you weren't drinking enough water to flush through the fibre it can't do it's job and can cause constipation, bloating and abdominal discomfort.

The feeling tired a lot isn't a good sign, maybe this was caused by the digestive problems or maybe you were missing something from your diet. Were you taking a B12 supplement? Did you eat a variety of veggies at least 4 serv including dark green leafy and yellow/orange? At least 3 servs fruits, what about legumes, were you eating 2 servs? did you only eat beans or was there a variety of beans, peas, lentils, tofu, hummas, etc.? Did you get essential fats? linseed for the essential omega-3? sunflower oil or seeds for essential omega-6? Were you getting enough calories in general? Were you getting too many calories/eating a lot of junky vegan foods?

Some vegans can develop dietary deficiencies (as can omnivores), it's generally the ones who are vegan exclusively for ethical reasons that don't really pay enough attention to what makes up a nutritionally balanced vegan diet and basically just end up eating a lot of pasta, bread, potato wedges, fruit juice, fake meat products, immitation cheese products, vegan cakes and sweets, basically whatever they think would be tasty, provided it's vegan, becomes their meals. But in some cases vegans who do try to eat balanced and healthfully and take a B12 can have low iodine or low vit D levels. People may not think to get enough sun exposure, they may wear a lot of high SPF everyday, live in a region that has low sun intensity. Now days most soymilk ricemilk soy yoghurts are all fortified with vitamin D for this reason, but someone who is trying to eat whole unprocessed foods could still miss out. And iodine seems to be low for most people that's why they add it to salt, a lot of people are cutting down on salt however you can also eat kelp like nori seaweed or spirulina for iodine.

If you were getting all the nutrition above, and you still felt unhealthy like you say, considering what you've said about how well you're doing on a paleo diet, I would guess you have a wheat/gluten allergy or intolerance. You'd need to see a doctor to diagnose that obviously, but if you are happy with your current diet and had a bad experience with previous attempt at veganism, I understand you probably want to continue to cut out all grains and legumes, and even though I think meat is unhealthy in a lot of ways (too much fat, too much cholesterol, too much protein, etc.) cutting it out if you weren't going to add legumes back in at least I fear would leave you lacking in necessary nutrients, can not possibly recommend!

So, keep up what you're doing I guess? Well done on losing weight and gaining health!

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

..there are people this thin naturally who are healthy so I figure as long as I get all my nutrients (and I do take a potent multi-vitamin just in case I could do with an added boost, it's easier to assimilate nutrients from food than pills I know, I am not relying on it, it's just a safeguard) I can be healthy and maintain my weight at a range I can live with..

I would counter that by saying there are people who's bodies are naturally that way, ie: they don't have to micro-manage their diet to stay at that body weight or size unlike yourself, who is forcing your body to try to be something it naturally doesn't want to be.

You have to make some allowances.

I would love to have a slimmer nose, smaller thighs and a smaller ass. But, to a certain extent I'm stuck with them (unless I invest in plastic surgery) because of genetics and the way my body was designed to be. It functions the best this way. I eat a healthy diet and exercise, and I feel energetic and 'well' most of the time. Yet I'm never going to 45kg no matter how much I want to be. Besides, weight is just a number - but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

The point of this long, rambling post is that you do have to operate within your bodies' limits (to a certain extent). A lot of your body's capabilities come down to genetics - and you can actually do your body harm by trying to change and compensate for that.

 

[Libby]

I see where you're coming from, I just feel like if you're not happy with something, it doesn't have to be that way. If you work hard you can fix it. If you were dealt a shit gene card and have to work harder than someone else to get what you want, well then you suck it up and work harder. I've been dealt a lot of shit cards but nothing I can't overcome. I've learnt my lesson not to take things to extremes because it compromises my health. I agree it'd probably do me good to loosen my grip a bit here, but I'm too afraid. Doctors aren't concerned with it unless I present with dietary deficiency, drop below 15% underweight, or lose my (.) none of which are issues I've faced for years. I eat a healthy diet, and have started up exercise, I feel energetic and 'well' most of the time too, I'm sure I am in very good health overall.

 

[modern buddha]

Below 15% underweight? Why do you want to do that?

 

[Libby]

I don't.
That's why I have a low-weight set point as well as a high weight one.
I don't let myself go below 47kg, I don't want to get sick again, I won't let myself fall below 15% underweight.
And I weighed myself today, I am 48.2kg, I am within my goal weight range, so I won't be on 'restricting' plan now, I'm on 'maintance' so my calorie allowance is going up a bit, yay & yum!

 

[Gyrospeck]

I just wanted to post an observation I've made regarding diet.

I am a firm believer that every person has their own "best diet." The problem with all of these different diets is that they preach effectiveness for everyone. There is no "one-size-fits-all" with diet/exercise (also true of drugs/supplements/herbs). Everyone needs to learn their own dietary needs through self exploration, research, and the help of others. I think that many of the diets mentioned above are excellent options to explore, but shouldn't be preached as universally effective because no one is capable of that kind of claim.

That said, there are a couple universal truths. All things being equal, less calories and more exercise will lead to weight loss. Everyone shares certain micro/macro nutrient needs (although I believe the proportions needed may vary). Different drugs will influence weight and have an impact on appetite.

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

^Great post! I totally agree with the individuality of diet requirements.

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

There is no one exercise that is better than any other. You simply need to do something you enjoy, and/or will continue doing that raises your heart rate.

This can include any form of activity from team sports, to running, to hiking to bike-riding etc. it's completely up to the individual.

Also don't forget the importance of a good diet on your weight and health.

 

[Jabberwocky]

"There is no one exercise that is better than any other"
o cmon you don't believe that!

 

[modern buddha]

What do you mean, bmxxx? Share some of your input on exercise with us.

 

[Jabberwocky]

just meant that '30m exercise' isn't some homogenous unit. 30m running is clearly /= 30m walking.

generally speaking, you get what you give. my typical approach focuses on maximizing efficiency so i don't have to train as much, so i'm almost always going at higher intensity and there's no doubt it's more effective than lower intensity.

It comes down to your goals, and while it's hard to use subjective words like "better", they're still clearly 'different'.


My recommendations for training? Initially / for newbs, i'd recommend not worrying about details so much as just being damn sure you're putting in the time. Choose activities based on what you like doing, *not* efficiency. Once you're in a groove and actually adhering to it, it's time to up your intensity. Whether you're running, swimming, whatever, once your body has adapted to a new routine the idea is to focus on improvement (your body will basically plateau if your training plateaus. In the beginning, "run 30m 4X weekly" is sufficient. Months later, ya gotta start looking at it as "run 30m 4X weekly, running a measurable amount further each time")

 

[Perpetual Indulgence]

output>input for weight loss
eat well and often
exercise daily

real simple although it took me years to put it into practice

 

[Libby]

"There is no one exercise that is better than any other"
o cmon you don't believe that!

The best exercise is the one you enjoy because you will do it regularly, as oppose to everyday for first 3 days of diet/lifestyle plan and then never again.

No exercise, no matter how superior, can deliver results if it is not undertaken regularly.Example: exercise programmes/equipment sitting unopened in original boxes in basement. Clearly not doing any good.
And ALL exercise, no matter how un-sophisticated delivers SOME benefits for health and weightloss.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Breast milk, the ideal food for human babies since humans began, provides 6% of calories as protein - far less than cow's milk, which has 22% of calories as protein.[/B]

Bloody hell

 

[modern buddha]

^ Think about it. Babies don't need much protein until they start to REALLY grow. Cows need to be able to stand up on day one of life!

 

[Libby]

Protein is used for construction and maintenance of tissue; it is not used for energy, except under extreme emergency conditions. The human infant is growing new tissue at the most rapid rate of its entire life; therefore, its protein needs are at the maximum of its entire life! Relative to their size.

And no-one needs milk once they are weaned at like 2yrs old and are eating solid food.

Babies certainly have high protein needs for their size. They require almost 0.7 grams of protein for every pound of body weight. Vegan adults need far less—around 0.4 to 0.45 grams of protein per pound of ideal body weight. But when it comes to getting enough protein, infants have a distinct advantage: They are little eating machines. A 13-pound baby can consume as much as 500 calories per day. Although their food has low protein density, babies get plenty of protein simply because they eat so much of that food. (An additional advantage is that the protein in breast milk has high bioavailability.)
Unless you’re on a mission to gain weight, you can’t eat quite as enthusiastically as the average one-month-old. A young infant needs around 9 grams of protein per day and 500 calories. A 135-pound vegan woman may need about 6 times more protein than an infant, but only around 4 to 4 ½ times more calories. Obviously, her diet needs to be more protein dense than the baby’s diet.
A person who is very physically active and eating a high calorie diet will meet protein needs on a diet that is less protein dense. In contrast, if you are eating a low-calorie diet for weight control, you’ll need to pack more protein into fewer calories, which means you need a more protein dense diet.
As a result, protein density of optimal diets varies quite a bit among individuals. Depending on calorie intake, vegan adults generally need diets that are between 9 and 12 percent protein to meet recommended intakes. The number may be somewhat higher for those who are dieting.
It’s not the least bit difficult to meet protein needs on a vegan diet. Vegans who are consuming enough calories and eating a variety of foods including legumes will meet requirements with ease.

http://www.theveganrd.com/2011/03/meeting-protein-needs-on-a-vegan-diet-the-calorie-connection.html

Protein paranoia
http://www.ecologos.org/pp.htm

Getting enough protein is not an issue for balanced vegan diets, and it certainly is not an issue for diets high in animal products (and as you know, I believe the opposite -too much protein, to be the real issue. That is part of the reason why I aim for a vegan diet. If you don't agree, don't go vegan, simple)

Simply_Live - Guess what I have stumbled upon? http://paleovegan.blogspot.co.nz/ Yup Paleo-Vegan. I shall be giving it a read, you may or may not be interested also.
Edit: oh it is not exactly what I thought, I thought it was a merge of vegan and paleo diets, but it is a vegan paleontologist's blog. Informative...still reading... entries tagged 'paleodiet' http://paleovegan.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Paleodiet oh and "A definitive critique of the paleo diet" heads entries tagged 'debunking' http://paleovegan.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Debunking
so blog's position quite obvious lol.. *isn't expert, is suspending judgement pending further investigation*

This website supports my prior assumption that paleo diets were mostly vegetarian/vegan and that our bodies evolved to a vegetarian diet. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/ancient-humans-vegetarians-paleolithic-diet_n_1695228.html

The diets of nearly all monkeys and apes (except the leaf-eaters) are composed of fruits, nuts, leaves, insects, and sometimes the odd snack of a bird or a lizard. They have the capacity for eating sugary fruit, the capacity for eating leaves and the capacity for eating meat, although that capacity tends to rarely be invoked. Sure, chimpanzees sometimes kill and devour a monkey, but the proportion of the diet of the average chimpanzee composed of meat is small, less than 3% by mass. Even with that modest preference for flesh, chimps are extreme. They eat more meat than any of the other apes or any of the monkeys. The majority of the food consumed by primates today–and every indication is for the last thirty million years–is vegetable, not animal. Plants are what our apey and even earlier ancestors ate; they were our paleo diet for most of the last thirty million years during which our bodies, and our guts in particular, were evolving. In other words, there is very little evidence that our guts are terribly special and the job of a generalist primate gut is to eat plants. We have special immune systems, special brains, even special hands, but our guts are ordinary and for tens of millions of years those ordinary guts have tended to be filled with fruit, leaves, and the occasional delicacy of a raw hummingbird3.

I keep feeling that this discussion doesn't belong in the "weight-loss tips" thread.. But also that in the paleo thread you said to only debate personal experience so it doesn't belong there, so I should STFU. and yet people continue bringing up points that if I don't reply I just look like some tard talking out my ass which is not the case. Solution?

 

[atara]

If you're at the low end of the protein intake scale, you have to start worrying about protein quality; poor digestibility or essential amino acid profile could compromise your health. If you're not, you have plenty of buffer so as not to worry. This is why the government usually recommends about 50 grams/day. Also, protein intake tends to increase the absorption of just about every sort of mineral -- calcium, iron, zinc, copper and manganese -- and that's generally considered a good thing, which is why my protein intake generally hovers around 100 grams/day. Also, your body uses methionine (via transmethylation) to synthesize the pseudovitamins creatine and choline, and tryptophan to synthesize niacin. If your intake of these is low, more protein can make up for it.

Protein and dietary fiber both play a role of providing satiety beyond their caloric content, so increased intake of one or the other is useful in dieting to stave off an inevitable reflex called "hunger". If you eat a lot of vegetables [except tubers], fiber may play a role for you that chicken breasts play for someone else.

This website supports my prior assumption that paleo diets were mostly vegetarian/vegan and that our bodies evolved to a vegetarian diet. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1695228.html

The Huffington Post is not a scientific publication, and the writer of that article is not a scientist. Without going into specifics, I'll just say he's wrong, and if you'd like me to tear him apart you can start a new thread. In the future, I suggest looking for reputable sources.

The human infant is growing new tissue at the most rapid rate of its entire life

False.

 

[Libby]

The Huffington Post is not a scientific publication, and the writer of that article is not a scientist

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com.../human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

About the Author: Rob Dunn is a science writer and biologist in the Department of Biology at North Carolina State University. His first book, Every Living Thing, told the stories of the sometimes obsessive, occasionally mad, and always determined, biologists who have sought to discover the limits of the living world. His new book, The Wild Life of Our Bodies, explores how changes in our interactions with other species, be they the bacteria on our skin, forehead mites or tigers, have affected our health and well being. Rob lives in Raleigh, North Carolina with his wife, two children, and lots of microbes. Follow on Twitter @RobRDunn.

Lol.
Okaliy dokaly.

As for part 2,

"False" back-atcha.

Dude, if the experts in these fields are in opposition of each other on the issue (which I think the very existence of palaeontologists who are vegan and not paleo evidences) then I, a non-expert, have no qualms in agreeing to disagree. I don't however believe a response of simply "False" to be a valuable contribution to a discussion of these issues. Indeed the only purpose I could fathom of such response is merely argumentative. Which I find distasteful and do not care to engage further.

 

[Stoned Immaculate]

Have lost 28 lbs since May. Post-breakup has done wonders for me. Appetite has decreased, time in the gym has increased. I feel like I've plateaued currently though.

I've been going to the gym about 3-4 times a week (45-60 minute sessions, mainly cardio)
It's day 3 of having cut out dairy (which I miss so much!) and I have immensely cut down on carbs/sugars for the last month or so.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to help this process continue to move? I feel like my body is stuck!