Ways of quitting cannabis

[BiG StroOnZ]

^Cannabis withdrawal syndrome, exists just as much as Bacon Withdrawal Syndrome, or Chocolate Cake Eater Withdrawal Syndrome.

I don't care what your documented reports say. My own personal experience smoking on and off for years, as well as other users experiences proves that people who report these symptoms create them psychologically. They used Cannabis for long periods of time, then suddenly stopped using it. The body got used to the schedule or regimen from using the Cannabis and therefore when they discontinue it. They imagine most of these symptoms, because their bodies are continually waiting for the substance.

All those symptoms you noted, can be explained using logical reasoning. For instance, lack of appetite. What happens when you've been using a substance such as Cannabis for a long period of time before you eat? Then one day just stop? Obviously, the body is going to wait for this substance, to know when it is time to eat. Sleeplessness? Most Cannabis users use it to go to sleep, or the frequent smoking helps them ease into sleep. Then you suddenly stop using it? What's going to happen? Again, the body and mind are going to wait for the intake of the substance. Gastrointestinal disturbances? LOL if that isn't obvious enough. With all the random food (variety and quantity) people eat when they get the "munchies" then they suddenly stop smoking. I'm sure switching to a normal diet will be very awkward on the body (plus before hand they were high and probably didn't notice it).

Need I continue? I don't have it documented, or some high-dollar funded experiment to figure out the obvious. I'm just using logical reasoning, and personal experience. There's not much too it, really...

These are imaginary symptoms that people created for themselves from abusing Cannabis on a daily basis. These symptoms will without a doubt only be found in a small percentage of habitual users, and most likely not at all in leisure smokers (once or twice a week smokers).

Also, to the guy that mentioned NA for Cannabis, you've got to be kidding me right? NA, and AA is one big brainwashed cult that thinks they have no will power or self control over themselves. If you need to go to NA for Weed, that's just insane and I feel sorry for that person.

 

[puckboy]

I think cannabis withdrawal can sometimes/usually be confused with a hangover effect from heavily smoking for a while.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Some people really seem to not want to recognize that weed can have negative effects. It screws up their view of it as a miracle plant. Just like any other drug, the amount of pull it has on your psyche as far as habituation goes varies depending on your personality and potentially even your neurological make up.

I love weed but I have found that if you do not moderate your usage it can have bad effects. I just think it is kinda bad that so many people will insist that weed is completely non-addictive.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

They used Cannabis for long periods of time, then suddenly stopped using it. The body got used to the schedule or regimen from using the Cannabis and therefore when they discontinue it. They imagine most of these symptoms, because their bodies are continually waiting for the substance.

Ummm, isn't that what addiction is? You body gets used to something and then when you take it away it has to readjust to it's normal set point, which causes various symptoms depending on the drug. How exactly are these symptoms "created in our minds"? I would like you to explain to me how I imagined my body going from being extremely hot and sweating bullets to freezing and shivering in a matter of seconds?

Who are you to say it is imagined? Just because you don't happen to have much physical discomfort when quitting doesn't mean that others wont. Drugs effects people differently and so does their withdrawal.

Edit: sorry for the double post

 

[The Winner!!]

Ok that's it. 5 Pages?? 3 Was enough..

In this thread, I've seen people get off topic and start to argue and try to prove points inside of their main point and get side tracked, and even misunderstand people. Now look everyone.

Cannabis can be addictive if you have problems in the first place, and if you do, you shouldn't be taking drugs in the first place.

Just because there is minor withdrawl symptoms has nothing to do with addiction really, the only reason withdrawl has anything to do with addiction for other drugs, like opiates. Is because it is so severe that they would do anything to get rid of it- more drugs.

Whether or not this person is a troll, it is not worth debating, because either way. It has created arguement.

That person who fucked for weed most likely did not do it because they really needed to get high.

Also, big stroonz last point there that Delta has just flamed, most of those symptoms are made up in their heads, unlike opiates, where barfing for hours in the toilet is not made up.
Once again, no problems before hand, no addiction, whether or not there is minor withdrawl.

Now lets see, the people who use weed as a social crutch, I seen somebody make the point of people getting together then smoking weed then seperating. That is called unhealthy relationships, which is a pretty severe problem.

"Especially when you mix tobacco." What the fuck? That is not WEED, that is nicotene, and for somebody to taint a beautiful herb like marijuana with tobacco is stupid as it is.


Just a few things that I thought would really help ease this thread out. When is this bullshit going to get closed?

Edit: Reading that post below mine made me realize I need to state a few things that will make people not attack me personally. Me calling the people who mix tobacco with weed stupid, it is my opinion, used to show that the nicotene has nothing to do with marijuana addiction, though I didn't need to call him stupid, I believe he is.

 

[Roger&Me]

These are imaginary symptoms that people created for themselves from abusing Cannabis on a daily basis.

No these are very real symptoms that heavy users of cannabis developed after continually agonizing the endocannabinoid system before abruptly ceasing that agonism. When exogenous cannabinoids are continually administered, as in the case of everyday smokers, the body ceases to produce its own endogenous cannabinoids such as anandamide. The withdrawal syndrome is present because the body is not making the necessary endocannabinoids to properly regulate certain processes such as appetite and sleep. Cannabis withdrawal is firmly routed in physiological processes within the brain. Just because you deny its existence, it doesn't make it any less real. Cannabis withdrawal syndrome is a real, albeit mild, condition -- that results from the abrupt cessation of cannabis intake in heavy daily users.

 

[The Winner!!]

Some people really seem to not want to recognize that weed can have negative effects. It screws up their view of it as a miracle plant. Just like any other drug, the amount of pull it has on your psyche as far as habituation goes varies depending on your personality and potentially even your neurological make up.

I love weed but I have found that if you do not moderate your usage it can have bad effects. I just think it is kinda bad that so many people will insist that weed is completely non-addictive.

Sorry I just gotta... GOTTA flame you.

I'm not sure the people here who say cannabis is non addictive are saying it CANNOT be... Simply saying that from their experience, their peers experience, that it hasn't been addictive. Because the people that don't find it addictive are the ones without major problems that could effect their habits, and don't hang out with people who oppose respect for the plant.

Which pretty much says they are "better" at handling life, and therefore opinion worth more (using the same sick moral that the people are trying to prove them wrong are.)

That last paragraph, I will admitt I don't know how to word that in the way that everybody will understand me. Though I'm sure there are some here that share the same thinking patterns as me and could explain it better?

 

[The Winner!!]

Please roger, you know you are right about that one thing, which proved us both wrong, but like you said "albeit mild".. So withdrawl from weed really has nothing to do with it's addiction potential.

Unless it is being abused by the, truly, truly, truly FUCKING weak. Which brings us back to the point that you shouldn't have severe problems before drug use, seeing as weed IS a drug and should be respected.

Why can't we just end this at the fact that everybody here already knows, that drugs must be respected in order to not cause problems.

 

[Roger&Me]

I never said anything about addiction potential, I was just saying that cannabis withdrawal syndrome exists -- it's documented and real. Of course in comparison to the withdrawal syndrome from more addictive substances like opiates and benzodiazepines, its very mild.

 

[The Winner!!]

Exactly, and arguing about this isn't really helping the real point of the thread- addiction potential, and to the people with less of a brain they will think you are saying it has something to do with physical addiction, which that I guess you could call a physical addiction, but really it is a misunderstanding if you think about it because it's not causing you to smoke/eat more weed.

If we are going to continue with this major fail of a thread can we atleast discuss something that matters?

Ok i'll start. What are some things that make marijuana potential for psychological addiction and ways to prevent that psychological addiction while maintaining a healthy marijuana habit? I think this whole 5 page thread could have been avoided if their organization was called "addiction prevention" which it really should be all about, and which is the reason why I disagree with the organization in the first place, so anyways. Go wild!!!


Note: Either way, the person who made that organization is either on the side of false information (with intent or without intent) or is incredibly stupid. Or maybe the OP could have elaborated abit more, maybe some of you now see why I think that the OP could have been a troll?? Or atleast worth a "fuck you"? I really hate how to get people to understand my points of view I need to post like 10 times in different ways untill the last, and most impractical (to me) works for them.

 

[nearjat]

I think this whole 5 page thread could have been avoided if their organization was called "addiction prevention" which it really should be all about,

Lol, this is true. Our argument was valid and both sides had good points, but the entire thing was pretty much irrelevant to the thread topic.

 

[The Winner!!]

Which is why I thought it was a troll and I thought people here had enough brain capacity to elaborate why I think the way I do.

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

No these are very real symptoms that heavy users of cannabis developed after continually agonizing the endocannabinoid system before abruptly ceasing that agonism. When exogenous cannabinoids are continually administered, as in the case of everyday smokers, the body ceases to produce its own endogenous cannabinoids such as anandamide. The withdrawal syndrome is present because the body is not making the necessary endocannabinoids to properly regulate certain processes such as appetite and sleep. Cannabis withdrawal is firmly routed in physiological processes within the brain. Just because you deny its existence, it doesn't make it any less real. Cannabis withdrawal syndrome is a real, albeit mild, condition -- that results from the abrupt cessation of cannabis intake in heavy daily users.

If this was true, then that means it would be an undeniable and proven event in every single habitual user; meaning they would all experience this without question. Everyone who smokes to the extent that would result in the process above, would have the same symptoms (Cannabis Withdrawal Syndrome) that you mentioned 99.9% time.

Since this isn't accurate (everybody experiencing these "withdrawal symptoms" from Cannabis) then everything you wrote is nothing more than a theory. Am I saying it doesn't happen? No. It means the end result of the whole scenario is nothing more than a theory on how the mind and body reacts to constant intake of Cannabinoids. The reality being, since not everybody experiences the same withdrawal effects, and the amount of people who do being the minority. Means, again, it is not proven and merely skepticism founded on science. Whereas everybody who is a habitual Opiate user or habitual Benzo user cannot avoid the withdrawal symptoms. Are there people who cope with it better than others? Of course, but 99.9 percent of all those habitual and long-term users will experience the same type of withdrawal effects, period as a result to their long term Benzo and Opiate usage.

Since this isn't the case with Cannabis, nothing is definite.

 

[swilow]

^exactly, who needs biased statistics when you have word of mouth




lol swilow breaks out information from government resources, the same people who said that MDMA causes Parkinson's disease

So you don't trust any source counter to your own views? Anyhow- the study re: MDMA and parkinsons disease is known to be a fuck up; the perpetrator the study used methamphetamine, not MDMA.

I'm done here. I know what I believe.

Ha not done-

Unless it is being abused by the, truly, truly, truly FUCKING weak.

I guess I'm weak and have emotional problrms because I have found weed difficult to quit at times? See, I don't actually think so. But your correct in using the term "abused"- thats when things go haywire. But, that said, many people abuse weed. Are all of them weak? It seems really funny to divide the world into weak and strong; kinda facistist to my mind.

 

[Roger&Me]

If this was true, then that means it would be an undeniable and proven event in every single habitual user;

That's a ridiculous assertion.

Every body reacts to cannabis abuse differently; some people will develop the withdrawal syndrome and some people won't -- additionally, some will develop the withdrawal syndrome and just not notice they have it, because its usually exceedingly mild. It is true, however, that cannabis withdrawal syndrome is an undeniable and proven event in a sizeable population of heavy users. There are definitely people who find it very uncomfortable to quit cannabis due to the symptomology of the syndrome -- why try to assert that these people are either lying, or don't exist? (When they clearly aren't lying, and clearly do exist.)

I'm really done arguing with you guys, its like talking to a wall. Cannabis certainly does have potential for addiction; like any substance that substitutes for endogenous compounds within the brain, it can cause negative feedback and thus withdrawal.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Sorry I just gotta... GOTTA flame you.

I'm not sure the people here who say cannabis is non addictive are saying it CANNOT be... Simply saying that from their experience, their peers experience, that it hasn't been addictive. Because the people that don't find it addictive are the ones without major problems that could effect their habits, and don't hang out with people who oppose respect for the plant.

Which pretty much says they are "better" at handling life, and therefore opinion worth more (using the same sick moral that the people are trying to prove them wrong are.)

LOL, I never flamed you or Big Stroonz at all. How was my response inflammatory? Just because I disagreed with you? Did I ever personally attack big stroonz? No.

Some of your posts(both The Winner and Big Stroonz) reek of arrogance. If anything, you guys are the one making inappropriate and unhelpful comments that do nothing to further a debate.

You seem to think you are smarter than everyone else but you really just look less credible when you post things like:

Big Stroonz:

I feel like some of you are taking the "It is addictive side" just so you can be different, and not because you want to be logical...

(If you haven't noticed, there atleast as many people who agree that it IS addictive posting in this thread.)

Plenty of people have quit successfully after smoking for LONG periods of time without any problems. Other people do have a problem, you know why they do? They lack discipline. Blaming it on the plant, is just ridiculous. There's more people who can quit without a problem than there are who cant...

/thread

(Isn't that how any addiction starts, with a lack of self control? There is nothing inherently wrong with ANY drug. Neither cannabis or heroin. No one is blaming the plant. We are just discussing how the drugs contained within in it affect us mentally and physically. I love how you possess the authority to declare an end to a debate.

^You're clearly smoking too much pot bro. She works for the National Cannabis Prevention Center. Read before you write.

This is a flame if I ever saw one.

Back to The Winner:

Sorry I just gotta... GOTTA flame you.

I'm not sure the people here who say cannabis is non addictive are saying it CANNOT be... Simply saying that from their experience, their peers experience, that it hasn't been addictive. Because the people that don't find it addictive are the ones without major problems that could effect their habits, and don't hang out with people who oppose respect for the plant.

Which pretty much says they are "better" at handling life, and therefore opinion worth more (using the same sick moral that the people are trying to prove them wrong are.)

Some of the most intelligent and creative people have had drug problems. People are human and they have flaws. Are you perfect? I seriously doubt it but you seems to have no problem accusing other people with minor vices of being somehow worse people and not worthy of your company. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Get over yourself.

One more thing I would like to say is that smoking pot =/= eating ice cream. This is the same old and broken argument that I remember reading on erowid a few years back and even I would spout it to prove my point that cannabis isn't addictive. It is really not a sound argument. First of all, where not talking a single joint a night here either.

At those levels pretty much everyone would have little trouble taking a break. You only begin to experience these WD symptoms with prolonged heavy usage. We are talking several times a day, every day. Ice cream is not a drug and thus it is not a sound comparison.

EDIT: Just thought I would comment on this too:
The Winner-

Just because there is minor withdrawl symptoms has nothing to do with addiction really, the only reason withdrawl has anything to do with addiction for other drugs, like opiates. Is because it is so severe that they would do anything to get rid of it- more drugs.

Tobacco is still considered an addiction but you don't see people stealing and scamming for their next smoke. It is the same way with cannabis. It is addictive but it is nowhere near as detrimental as harder drugs. The fact is that you CAN become addicted to marijuana and like other drugs, their effects on you and any potential withdrawal will vary. Not everyone will react the same to a drug and the same is true of it's cessation. This is not exclusive to marijuana. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that it is "all in their heads" which is pretty much the basis of everything you are arguing.

I tend to think that part of the reason that some people experience more withdrawal symptoms than others is because they have a higher degree of anxiety in their daily lives. If you tend to use weed as a way of counteracting anxiety then when you quit you are going to have a rebound effect and you are going to experience more anxiety than you did before you even started smoking pot to ease it. The same is true with other anxiolytics.

There are several models of addiction. One of them is based on the idea that we have mental 'set points' which are kept at specific values by homeostasis. When we do a drug for a long period of time on a regular enough basis, our brain tries to return to this set point. It does this by making changes in brain function to counter act the drug's effects. This causes us to require more of the drug for the same effect (tolerance). When you quit CT it is like one side of the tug-o-war going on in your brain just gives up and we are left with an imbalance. This is the cause of withdrawal symptoms. Your brain must undo the changes that where caused by regular intake of a foreign substance.

This is why people can actually go into psychosis when quitting a heavy alcohol habit. They have been muting their brain function for so long with depressants that their brain has been stimulating it to counter-act this constant sedation. When the person stops drinking this balance is broken and their brain swings from being sedated to extremely stimulated which can cause a psychotic break.

I love how the OP made one post that started this big debate and never posted again.

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

Roger&Me -

How is that ridiculous? You're the one who made the claim. Claims like that mean they're unavoidable and happen every time because of the way the mind reacts. If you can understand the science behind it, then you can understand the obvious fact that it isn't always the case. You even said in the opening statement, "

Every body reacts to cannabis abuse differently

Meaning, again, it's not proven or fact as people in this thread are trying to assert.


Delta-9-THC -

Everything you said is no different than anyone else in this thread trying to prove that Cannabis is addictive.

I'm very credible, you know why? I believe what I see from my own personal experience, and others around me who've quit multiple times without problems. That's enough for me to know how much addictive potential is present in Cannabis.

You wasted your time with that huge rant. The side that claims Cannabis is additive, has about as much credibility you are claiming we do.

All I've seen in this thread so far are opinions. One side that is trying to prove and convince people that, "ADDICTION POTENTIAL INEVITABLY EXISTS IN CANNABIS" and another side that says, "NO, IT HAS TO DO WITH THE USER ALONE." Yet we're the arrogant ones? 8)

How are you going to say that all I'm doing is flaming, I'm inappropriate and not helpful? Could you make an oxymoron out of yourself any more? Seriously, your opening ASSUMPTION was that we reek of arrogance (This is a flame if I ever saw one)...

 

[Delta-9-THC]

I didn't say that all you where doing is flaming. You seem to be ignoring all my points. Did you even read my post? Why don't you actually respond to some of what I said above? I don't really think it was a rant. I was discussing the mechanics of addiction and made several new points. A long post is not a rant.

I was only pointing out my experience of reading your posts. I didn't say all your posts where bad. I was just pointing out how SOME of you comments have no place in a debate.

Only opinions? I mean someone did post medical studies. That is the closest we are going to get to facts here. I don't think you have posted any facts either. It is all about personal experience. I think what I posted above shows how WD severity can vary fairly well. How am I an oxymoron? What have I said that is contradictory? I don't even think a person can be an oxymoron, it is used to refer to a phrase that contradicts itself no?

I think you meant to call me an hypocrite by saying that my posts are inappropriate themselves but that isn't really true because I responded to quite a few of your points and made some new ones. Either that or you where just calling me a moron at which point this debate has really degenerated.

Also, Could you elaborate a bit more on how these things are imagined? How come some imagine these symptoms and others don't? What are the causes of these false sensations? Can you please respond particularly to how I experienced feelings of hot/sweating and cold/shivering. (This was when I quit after prolonged oral THC intake which is even more powerful than smoked IMO. At high doses it has an almost opiate like effect).

 

[The Winner!!]

I'm not even going to defend myself to dumbass assumptions.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

You said it yourself. Because you have never had a vice you are "better at life". Anyone who has smoked a bit too much weed and had trouble quitting has "major problems" according to you.

"The greatest minds are capable of the greatest vices as well as of the greatest virtues."- Rene Descartes

Edit: I do agree with one thing you said. Cannabis is a powerful substance and like any other drug it must be respected. I think we can all agree on that. If you go overboard with it then it starts to lose all its positives and all the negatives increase. I think that we just disagree to what degree this happens. I believe that it is both mental AND physical while you guys insist it must be only mental.