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Opioids water to hydrocodone ratio of maximum point of saturation for CWE

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bayhead415

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Aug 24, 2012
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What is the limit of saturation of hydrocodone for 1 ml of water? I remember seeing it was 1ml to 36 mg I think, but I am not sure.
 
i found that hydrocodone bitartrate has a water solubility of about 60-62mg/ml from the sigma aldrich site.

if you have the hcl, the general rule of thumb i go by for a cold water extraction is 5-10ml per pill. it depends what end of the scale the cwe is.

are you wanting to inject it? a lot of subjective reports liken the experience to that of codeine, unpleasant, but inconclusive as yet whether pulmonary edema is a risk.
 
Honestly I was originally thinking of plugging or up the nose, but realized it is less effective than oral as well as a prodrug so I didn't pursue further. I have generic Watson so I am guessing they are the bitrate.
 
For cold water extraction I would take 12 vicodin 750s and crush them up into a beer size tall glass. Then I would do the CWE and I would drink the whole glass. It worked just fine for me that way, so I think your fine to do up to that amount into a tall glass size....
 
bayhead415 said:
Honestly I was originally thinking of plugging or up the nose, but realized it is less effective than oral as well as a prodrug so I didn't pursue further. I have generic Watson so I am guessing they are the bitrate.
Click to expand...

Hydrocodone isn't really a prodrug, but you're correct that a percentage of it does metabolize into hydromorphone.

I'm not sure what the rectal BA is, but sometimes I find that even if a ROA is lower than another for a certain drug (I'm thinking about plugging methadone in this instance), the experience of the quicker onset and peak can lead to a stronger felt experience (even if less is actually being absorbed). That being said, unlike methadone, hydrocodone hits rather quickly when taken orally so I would recomend just drinking it still.
 
SethTheBest said:
For cold water extraction I would take 12 vicodin 750s and crush them up into a beer size tall glass. Then I would do the CWE and I would drink the whole glass. It worked just fine for me that way, so I think your fine to do up to that amount into a tall glass size....
Click to expand...
Worst advice ever.... There is no such thing as a "750" vic as 750 mg of hydrocodone is just unrealistic as well as 12x that amount. Of course you are referring to 7.5/750 hydrocodone/acetemitophan combo. Still 12x 7.5 is an extreme amount and if you are taking that you need some serious help to manage your use. I only take 10 mg at most every 4-12 hours thanks to being able to get a good night sleep with a morphine based opiate and potentiation due to medical cannabis as well as a healthy mindset. Seriously seth I say this cause I care for ya.

As far as being a prodrug I know it was refereed to it. I thought any drug that is broken down into another active drug is considered a prodrug. Damn now I gotta do more research.

edit: http://taimapedia.org/index.php?title=Hydrocodone#Prodrug_Debate It seems to be a hot button debate! I am just going to say it is up to ones opinion. As far as mine I think it is a prodrug that itself is also active in the opiate receptors itself. It also mentions plugging increases BA, but IMO it is not worth it unless it is a morphine based compound.
 
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Prodrugs are not "up to one's opinion", nor is it really up for debate.

Hydrocodone isn't a prodrug, a prodrug is a drug that is inactive (or much more inactive than the metabolite) on it's own but is metabolized into something active, or much more active. For example, carisoprodol (Soma) --> meprobamate (Miltown). diacetylmorphine (Heroin) --> morphine and & 6-MAM which is also metabolized into morphine. Lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) --> Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine)
 
As I said it's up to ones personal opinion. I believe it is partly a prodrug as it metabolized into hydromorphone, which I believe is more active. I am not very well educated so I can not really say this as fact.

Also by your theory tricomb would heroin also not be a prodrug? If I am not mistaken when used via IV/IM it bypasses the body function that converts it into morphine leading to the MUCH stronger high. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Just throwing this in would 4-aco-dmt be an example of a prodrug? As if I am not mistaken it converts into 4-ho-dmt before reaching the synapse
 
if taken orally, yes, heroin is considered a pro-drug as it has to go through first pass metabolism via deactylation into the main active morphine. other routes it crosses the BBB rather efficiently.

a major metabolite which just happens to be stronger does not distinguish a pro-drug. it's exactly as tricomb said. it is administered essentially inactive and metabolised in vivo to the active metabolite - bioactivation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodrug
 
Are you really going to argue about prodrugs?

Yes, a very small percentage of hydrocodone consumed is converted to hydromorphone. If you wanna call that a "pro-drug" then yes, it is a partial pro-drug. There's no debate.

Let's stay on topic here. Flaming and inciting flaming will not be tolerated.
 
bayhead415 said:
As I said it's up to ones personal opinion. I believe it is partly a prodrug as it metabolized into hydromorphone, which I believe is more active. I am not very well educated so I can not really say this as fact.

Also by your theory tricomb would heroin also not be a prodrug? If I am not mistaken when used via IV/IM it bypasses the body function that converts it into morphine leading to the MUCH stronger high. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Just throwing this in would 4-aco-dmt be an example of a prodrug? As if I am not mistaken it converts into 4-ho-dmt before reaching the synapse
Click to expand...

My post was correcting you being wrong, re-read it, I already said that heroin was a prodrug. The definition of a prodrug is not up for debate, nor is it up to one's personal opinion. I'll get the official definition even though I did explain this in my post.
Wikipedia said:
A prodrug is a pharmacological substance (drug) administered in an inactive (or significantly less active) form. Once administered, the prodrug is metabolised in vivo into an active metabolite, a process termed bioactivation
Click to expand...

(Source)
 
I think that because it is a less active form than its metabolite by your definition it is a prodrug. I have nothing else to say please close this topic before it becomes a pointless argument. Everything that was questioned was essentially answered.

the 4-aco-dmt q was not, but the answer is obvious at this point.
 
The definition of a prodrug is not up for debate, and it's certainly not "up to one's personal opinion". That's not how science or medicine works.

/thread
 
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