☠ WARNING ☠ *WARNING* Chronic ketamine/dissociative use causes bladder/organ damage

[Vastness]

Just a further update on my recent DCK escapades... while I did get very sick for a short time after, in fact the bladder issues faded within 2/3 days from my heavier dosing sessions.

A short time later, because I'm just a degenerate disso addict I guess, had some DCK left, and just wanted to escape reality momentarily... I decided to dose again. This time though, I dosed much more lightly, like lines of between 5-10mg, up to 20mg as the days went on, never more than 30mg (this dose I did exactly once). I literally went on using like this for about 5 days, using about half a gram in that time... actually, 460mg, so an average of 92mg / day. Always spread out over the course of the day, with an hour or 2 between doses.

This time... I did NOT get any bladder issues, either during or in the aftermath.

I'm not sure what is going on here, possibly a factor is that as I was essentially conscious and mostly lucid, I drank water, remembered to eat, and even engaged in light exercise from time to time (basically just walking around in all honesty, but good to just get outside sometimes). I also continued to take an ECGC supplement daily, and was more liberal with taking D-mannose throughout and for a few days after (honestly I'm still not exactly sure what it's supposed to do).

It does seem though that, potentially, light, infrequent doses of DCK are easier for the body to clear and less likely to cause any lasting damage compared to the heavier, all in one DCK-holers, like 50mg+ or whatever which I think is closer to what I was doing the first time round. Although I've probably gone up to 100mg or more historically.

Finished my lil DCK baggie now anyway and honestly, am kind of relieved. But these inconsistent bladder effects are bizarre and I wish I knew what was really going on.

 

[MsDiz]

I don't have feeling in my bladder left after using MXE for about a year. I'm indifferent to it, it hasn't caused any loss of life quality. If something doesn't feel quite right, I shake my lower body to check whether there's inertia from a full bladder, and then I know it's time to go. I can't do long, intense, confusing trips anymore though. I simply forget the need to urinate, which translates to a heart and kidney load.

Chris, may I ask if you have feeling in it now? I know this was from 2019.

 

[Chris Timothy]

A little feeling has returned, but it's largely still numb. It had become almost a little bothersome, having to keep the hydraulic pressure down and the blood optimally clean to minimize the tinnitus. It happened a couple of times that I got stuck in a flow state escaping the ringing and only noticed I forgot to empty after noticing noise increase. But I'm still content with it. I used to have an oversensitive bladder, feeling like having to empty right after having emptied, stuff like that. A fibrotic bladder is much preferable.

@LucidSDreamr
They're not talking about ketamine bladder in that study, they're talking about "interstitial cystitis", with mystery cause. Then they hypothesize the mucus layer might be disintegrating on its own. Well yeah, if it's spontaneously degenerating then of course it isn't regenerating.

Gotta be careful with the medical word games. Sometimes sesquipedalian polysyllabics are thrown around just to give a facade of expertise, heh.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Just a further update on my recent DCK escapades... while I did get very sick for a short time after, in fact the bladder issues faded within 2/3 days from my heavier dosing sessions.

A short time later, because I'm just a degenerate disso addict I guess, had some DCK left, and just wanted to escape reality momentarily... I decided to dose again. This time though, I dosed much more lightly, like lines of between 5-10mg, up to 20mg as the days went on, never more than 30mg (this dose I did exactly once). I literally went on using like this for about 5 days, using about half a gram in that time... actually, 460mg, so an average of 92mg / day. Always spread out over the course of the day, with an hour or 2 between doses.

This time... I did NOT get any bladder issues, either during or in the aftermath.

I'm not sure what is going on here, possibly a factor is that as I was essentially conscious and mostly lucid, I drank water, remembered to eat, and even engaged in light exercise from time to time (basically just walking around in all honesty, but good to just get outside sometimes). I also continued to take an ECGC supplement daily, and was more liberal with taking D-mannose throughout and for a few days after (honestly I'm still not exactly sure what it's supposed to do).

It does seem though that, potentially, light, infrequent doses of DCK are easier for the body to clear and less likely to cause any lasting damage compared to the heavier, all in one DCK-holers, like 50mg+ or whatever which I think is closer to what I was doing the first time round. Although I've probably gone up to 100mg or more historically.

Finished my lil DCK baggie now anyway and honestly, am kind of relieved. But these inconsistent bladder effects are bizarre and I wish I knew what was really going on.

I've been telling you wants going on. You're doing irreversible damage to your bladder and trying to rationalize continued use by assessing whether you feel pain after certain doses or with certain supplements that aren't going to do shit to prevent ketamine cystitis.

Your symptoms starting are exactly how it went for me. 3 weeks ago I had an electrical simulator implanted into my pelvic nerves to try amd stop the pain. This is what continued disso use holds for you. I haven't eaten pizza or citrus fruit or dranks soda in 4 years...I could go on.

Honestly I would recommend an IV heroin and crack addiction to you over continued dissociative use with your symptoms in terms of potential damage you could do if you continue.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

A little feeling has returned, but it's largely still numb. It had become almost a little bothersome, having to keep the hydraulic pressure down and the blood optimally clean to minimize the tinnitus. It happened a couple of times that I got stuck in a flow state escaping the ringing and only noticed I forgot to empty after noticing noise increase. But I'm still content with it. I used to have an oversensitive bladder, feeling like having to empty right after having emptied, stuff like that. A fibrotic bladder is much preferable.

@LucidSDreamr
They're not talking about ketamine bladder in that study, they're talking about "interstitial cystitis", with mystery cause. Then they hypothesize the mucus layer might be disintegrating on its own. Well yeah, if it's spontaneously degenerating then of course it isn't regenerating.

Gotta be careful with the medical word games. Sometimes sesquipedalian polysyllabics are thrown around just to give a facade of expertise, heh.

Jesus im glad im done with academia and ppl that speak like you. We just fire ppl that act like that in the real world even if you're good.

Ketamine cystitis as a formal diagnosis also involves degradation of the epithelial layer of the bladder wall. Does
it regenerate in the specific case of ketamine induced cystitis vs IC? You haven't cited any source saying that it does regenerate in KC. I don't really care enough about winning a dick sizing scientific debate with you about it either to go look up papers showing that it doesn't regenerate in the case of ketamine cystitis because I get paid too much for reading science papers to do it for free to win an argument with you. But let us know if you find out.

The only thing worth my time here is to warn ppl that this is dangerous, not try to rationalize the use of supplements and theorize as to why the damage can be fixed to give ppl reasons to keep using.

It's been a while but I also remember reading papers discussing that the mechanisms of IC and KC could be similar in terms of immunological cascades ultimately resulting in the physical damage. Again, not going to dig those up for you now but you can look into it, find them, then compile a thesis as to why the two diagnoses aren't identical and win the day. They are however treated identically (ie with GAG replacement compound introduction to the bladder).

 

[Vastness]

I've been telling you wants going on. You're doing irreversible damage to your bladder and trying to rationalize continued use by assessing whether you feel pain after certain doses or with certain supplements that aren't going to do shit to prevent ketamine cystitis.

Your symptoms starting are exactly how it went for me. 3 weeks ago I had an electrical simulator implanted into my pelvic nerves to try amd stop the pain. This is what continued disso use holds for you. I haven't eaten pizza or citrus fruit or dranks soda in 4 years...I could go on.

Hard to read but no doubt somewhat true. I am trying to rationalise continued use of dissociatives, if very rarely. I am addicted, by most definitions of the word.

The only thing I would somewhat dispute is that supplements aren't going to do shit, there seems evidence that some of them are surely doing something, even if, arguably, maybe not much.

I'm also -- and I freely admit this is most likely the addiction talking - something I just want to be true - not entirely convinced of the absolute irreversibility of the damage - at least, that it applies to everyone. It seems to me there are some instances in which it has been reversed, although to what extent, perhaps, is debatable.

I appreciate your reasons for stressing this point so strongly, of course. I guess there's not much need for me to say anything else, these substances are irrefutably known to damage to an organ most people would like to keep in good condition, so even in the edge cases where people are fortunate enough to avoid life changing symptoms in the long term, it's perhaps irresponsible to try to give anyone else an excuse to keep on using when they're already getting warning signs.

If I could, I'd get the most thorough analysis of the health of my bladder that current medical science could provide, I would obviously like to see objectively the damage I quite possibly have done, even if I don't entirely accept the seriousness of the situation just yet, in all honesty, as much as I'd like to... and as irrational as I know that is. Dissociatives almost never give me anything good in the aftermath.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

...the only way for them to see the damage objectively is to stick a camera up your D (cystoscopy). Not a fun procedure and it's done while you are awake. They typically don't do that until your symptoms are chronic and or severe.

 

[Vastness]

Hmm... that does not sound pleasant. I think I could do it if it wouldn't be near impossible or probably very expensive to arrange.

Just to play devil's advocate though (and to find a reason to keep on rationalizing my addiction ), or actually partly out of wanting to just understand better... I DO seem to recover. I do not experience any symptoms of cystitis for more than a few days of the few occasions that mild, and nonetheless of course extremely concerning, bladder awareness has occurred.

Typically, the more frequently I abuse dissociatives, the slower the recovery (longest was I think 5-7 days after a sustained period of ketamine, DCK and a few others for about a week). But most recently after a solid 6 months of abstinence, they faded far sooner, and took longer to develop (first time round I was essentially just binging for days, but taking the odd day off which is usually when I'd expect the bad stuff to start... this time round I had a full week in between sessions). This to me points to SOME recovery, even if arguably not complete recovery... I'm sure if I'd made that 6 months into a year, after which maybe I'd have even got past the grip that dissos seem to have on me, the bladder reaction, if any, would have been even less. What does this mean?

Obviously EVERYTHING I've described still means I am now at risk. But equally, is there recovery of some sort occurring, or is this just an illusion? What's recovering, and what isn't? I know you said you have little interest in digging up science papers for people but I'd really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction.

 

[Chris Timothy]

Jesus im glad im done with academia and ppl that speak like you. We just fire ppl that act like that in the real world even if you're good.

Ketamine cystitis as a formal diagnosis also involves degradation of the epithelial layer of the bladder wall. Does
it regenerate in the specific case of ketamine induced cystitis vs IC? You haven't cited any source saying that it does regenerate in KC. I don't really care enough about winning a dick sizing scientific debate with you about it either to go look up papers showing that it doesn't regenerate in the case of ketamine cystitis because I get paid too much for reading science papers to do it for free to win an argument with you. But let us know if you find out.

The only thing worth my time here is to warn ppl that this is dangerous, not try to rationalize the use of supplements and theorize as to why the damage can be fixed to give ppl reasons to keep using.

It's been a while but I also remember reading papers discussing that the mechanisms of IC and KC could be similar in terms of immunological cascades ultimately resulting in the physical damage. Again, not going to dig those up for you now but you can look into it, find them, then compile a thesis as to why the two diagnoses aren't identical and win the day. They are however treated identically (ie with GAG replacement compound introduction to the bladder).

Whoa whoa.. where's that coming from? I'm not interested in competition either, I'm here to collaborate, which is also possible under non-bureaucratic standards. But not if you give me that attitude, or treat me as your research slave. I gave you my view, put a little joke under it under the assumption you're not a salty sandy who can't take one. And you can take it or leave it, but keep your other complaints.

 

[higherconciousness]

Damn I didn’t know ket could cause this type of damage and I just ordered a considerable amount. A few years ago I was sent fentanyl instead of 4-fa. It killed my girlfriend and left me in a state of kidney and liver failure. As such, I’m concerned that I might be more susceptible to these pernicious effects.

 

[Xorkoth]

Oh man, I'm so sorry. That right there is exactly the reason why everyone should be testuing every new batchthey get from a vendor, even if they've used that vendor before. And start with an allergy test. I admit I do not always do this myself, but your experience really drives home the need.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[higherconciousness]

Now I’m gonna be paranoid while using it. The duration is so short which leads to compulsive redosing so hopefully I can limit my usage and be reasonable. So this applies to all arylcyclohexylamines? This is about the only Dissociative I can find at the moment.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah it does, but ketamine seems to be the worst, since the dose is so high compared to the others. I wouldn't worry about it too much, but just be wary, don't binge on it, and if you feel bladder discomfort or pain, stop using it entirely. It is hard on your kidneys though so be aware of that. But occasional use shouldn't be too bad.

 

[higherconciousness]

Oh man, I'm so sorry. That right there is exactly the reason why everyone should be testuing every new batchthey get from a vendor, even if they've used that vendor before. And start with an allergy test. I admit I do not always do this myself, but your experience really drives home the need.

Sorry for your loss.

Yeah I did not expect an amphetamine to be sold as fentanyl, but here we are. I believe the only reason I’m alive is because I was on suboxone so perhaps my tolerance prevented me from dying. Up to 20 other people died from this single vendor.

 

[Xorkoth]

I hope the vendor faced repercussions from that, that's terrible.

 

[higherconciousness]

I hope the vendor faced repercussions from that, that's terrible.

This actually happened in 2016, though it feels like last year and the trial is still ongoing. One of the cops involved in the case was dirty so he might get not even face time in prison. It’s maddening.

Since the incident I’ve been in great physical shape but my kidneys are scarred from failing. I’ll just be careful and try not to binge.

 

[Bare_head]

There has been talk of some other arylcyclohexylamines to cause similar problems but the dose for those is lower than k. The burn test is a good one with k if you dont have reagents.

Blood red is the colour of the residue it leaves behind after heating up on foil.. something really dark/black or yellow/white isn't what you want for ketamine. There is some info in another thread but may put ur mind at rest as to its actual ketamine before trying to buy it/sniff it

 

[polarthedog]

i used dxm everyday for a lose to a year at doses between 400-1000 mg a day, I’ve been using it lately at doses of at least 60 mg a day, if I wanted to go to the doctor to get periodic testing some to see if I’m causing organ damage, what tests should I ask for?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Damn I didn’t know ket could cause this type of damage and I just ordered a considerable amount. A few years ago I was sent fentanyl instead of 4-fa. It killed my girlfriend and left me in a state of kidney and liver failure. As such, I’m concerned that I might be more susceptible to these pernicious effects.

That's awful
.may I ask how fent caused kidney and liver failure? Was it result of an overdose and being unconscious or dead for a while or how exactly does fent do that? I didn't think fent was hard on organs.

I am OP and I will tell you that during my worst bladder pain flares the bladder became so swollen that it causes nephritis (I think) where the kidney basically gets backed up with water amd the kidney hurts.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

i used dxm everyday for a lose to a year at doses between 400-1000 mg a day, I’ve been using it lately at doses of at least 60 mg a day, if I wanted to go to the doctor to get periodic testing some to see if I’m causing organ damage, what tests should I ask for?

Medicine is not advanced enough to detect early stages of many types of damage. The only definitive test for bladder damage is to have them stick a tube with a camera up your dick and view the inside of your bladder (cystoscopy). Highly painful and they won't do the test unless you have been in chronic pain and uti tests are all negative.

You basically won't know until you start noticing changes in urinary function followed by pain