Warning: 6-ABP NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE (serotonin syndrome)

[SurgeonGeneral]

Just thought I should warn people of very close call that occurred with 6-APB (benzo fury), and that a significant risk of death from serotonin syndrome arises if you take this drug with any other (eg MAOIs, SSRI and several other antidepressants including St Johns Wort and 5-HTP also other drugs such as tramadol) which acts to increase brain levels of serotonin. The two or three in combination can easily (& did) lead to the development of serotonin syndrome that has a death rate of approximately 10%. A dangerously high level of serotonin builds up the CNS such that your body can no longer effectively regulate your autonomic nervous system leading to hyperthermia, sweating, confusion, hallucinations, delerium, coma and finally death by multi system failure a la Leah Betts.

Seriously this is going to be the next Ivory Wave, in my opinion it is only a short period of time before people start dying fom it. So A) don't use it unless you have a death wish B) if you must use it do not take it with anything else eg Antidepressants or 5-HT which also increases serotonin levels or you run a high chance of developing extremely unpleasant and potentially fatal serotonin syndrome c) if you or one of your mates has taken this drug and becomes increasingly hot, bothered, irritable, confused or hallucinating you must take them to A&E immediately due to a 1 in 10 chance of death.

Sorry to spoil anyones fun but I seriously thought I should get this out before people start dying. Approximately 1/3 of people presenting with serotonin syndrome req admission to ITU and approx 1/3 of them die from it.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Mods, I moved this over from the TDS Anonymous Posting thread. Please feel free to move it elsewhere if you wish

 

[rickolasnice]

No offense but mixing research chemicals such as 2 serotonergics is obviously askinf for trouble.. especially 6-APB as far as i can see.. it seems to cause some SS symptoms in higher than single doses / people that are sensitive to it.

You say if you or one of your mates has taken the drug and becomes increasingly hot, bothered, irritable and confused or hallucinating you should take them to ER. I'm not saying you're wrong but from alot of trip reports the drug causes most of these affects anyway.

Also, would just like to point out Leah Betts died from water intoxication / water poisoning / hyper-hydration.. not serotonin syndrome.

And! in the interest of harm reduction! What did you mix it with? Come on don't be shy

Glad you are ok though! And thanks for the warning.

 

[Shambles]

I don't doubt for a second that 6-APB could easily cause SS in combination with tramadol or an MAOi cos everything along the lines of 6-APB is pretty dodgy on the SS front with stuff like that. Not so sure about SSRIs cos they usually block the effects rather than cause SS. An SSRI combined with an MAOi probably wouldn't be a wise move with or without adding 6-APB.

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience - have had SS myself and was probably the most agonising and terrifying experience of my life. To be honest though, anyone who took the time to research 6-APB would know not to combine it with tramadol, MAOi's and so on. Sadly, not everyone would even think to check and those are the ones at risk... and they won't be reading a warning like this if they're not researching anyway. Research is a Good Thing and glad you got through the SS okay

 

[pofacedhoe]

more info please? it would be helpfull


what did you see?

you haven't described what acctually happened so please do

 

[sandman_i_am]

Do you work in the medical field or did you go to a hospital and were told that this happened to you? If not, how do you know that it caused this condition in you? I don't know how or why people here believe that they have suffered from serotonin syndrome unless they went to a hospital and a medical professional said "You suffered from serotonin syndrome". Otherwise, it's all just speculation, no? Not to trivialize the terrible experiences that people have obviously had, but to leap to the conclusion that "It was definitely serotonin syndrome" seems a bit naive to me.

I admit that it sounds likely that the combination you mentioned could very well cause serotonin syndrome, but you can't very well go about diagnosing yourself and saying "Yeah, most definitely, it was serotonin syndrome and it brought me near to death".

Whatever happened to you I am sorry that it had to be so, and I am glad that you are OK, but you must understand why I am skeptical of your claims.

 

[chasing_s]

.Seriously this is going to be the next Ivory Wave, in my opinion it is only a short period of time before people start dying fom it.

that's frankly bullshit. ivory wave was a branded product of powerful stimulants (pre/post cathinones ban) which people would take massive overdoses of because they didn't know what was in it and assumed mephedrone style dosing was fine.

so moving on. 6-apb is no more dangerous than the user taking it. if a user takes it in conjunction with a MAOI then yes serotonin syndrome is a likely outcome, being a serotonin releaser. however this as far as I can tell is the first reported hospitalisation with 6-apb, assuming you did go to hospital that is rather than as possibly suggested self-diagnosed. (there were some reported for b-f but they were based on people who had taken capsules prior to the actual arrival of the pillets so it's likely they had taken something else). to say it's going to be the next ivory wave and people are going to fall down dead seems to go against the 6 months or so far's evidence.

of course I could be wrong on the hospitalisations from it but certainly I haven't seen anything about them, with the pillets or powders that have been available, on here.

 

[rickolasnice]

that's frankly bullshit. ivory wave was a branded product of powerful stimulants (pre/post cathinones ban) which people would take massive overdoses of because they didn't know what was in it and assumed mephedrone style dosing was fine.

I think it had more to do with the fact the active chemical changed from MDPV to 2-DPMP(?) which lasts ALOT longer with less of a buzz (causing people to redose) leading to 5 days bouts of insomnia and paranoia delusions.

 

[Shambles]

Indeed. I enjoyed desoxy but I also knew what I was taking, how much to take and what to expect. If I'd bought it as a "meph replacement" and hoofed a 200mg line I suspect hospital would've ensued. Even knowing about it it was 72 hours after my last dose before even getting close to sleep - got some long ol' legs has desoxy :D

It doesn't cause SS though. And 6-APB is certainly not even remotely comparable to the Ivory Wave flap. There is very good reason to avoid branded RCs like the plague and only use pure chems after doing the research that would prevent things like SS being an issue.

 

[Sega420]

you should never blame the drug, for a lot of people they are simply dangerous.
some people are just too stupid to be allowed access to certain chemicals.
you know the type i mean.
the type who "rack 20 bangin lines mahn, cuz it getz ye propur dunted, innit".
(when you only really need a certain amount for desired effects)
these stimulants and their boom in popularity, cases of people having adverse reactions,
are a class example of why we should have regulation and strict controls put on the manufacture and distribution of drugs.
(i mean from a trade standards and health&safety standpoint. like with food and drink and medicines)

ideally you should be able to buy some accurately measured out dosages of the pure chemical of your choice in gel capsules,
be it MDPV, 4mmc, LSD-25, MDMA, 4-HO-DMT, etc.
it would have its own wee packaging, like when you buy nurofen, with dosage instructions, detailed info on the drug, tips & warnings.

also the license idea, whereby youd need to pass a small exam and have yourself mentally assessed before recieving it,
if you want to buy something like psychedelics for example.
prohibition hasnt and doesnt work, why not give this a shot?

 

[FrequentFlyer]

Just like to add something on the SSRI statement:

I'm on 20mg Sipralexa/day (SSRI) and haven't found any problems with 6-apb. After a few trials my dosing is just the same as before the SSRI regimen. Unexpectedly 6-apb still gave full effects despite the SSRI (only less eye-wiggles).

Completely off topic but strangly enough 5-apb doesn't give any effects at all with an SSRI. (just some annoying stimulation). I would have thought the method of action (not sure how to call this in english, i mean the effect on neurotransmitters) of these two would be somewhat similar. What does this say about 6-apb, does this mean it takes a totally different route than mdma/mda and 5-apb? An idea on which that could be?

 

[kace]

) if you or one of your mates has taken this drug and becomes increasingly hot, bothered, irritable, confused or hallucinating you must take them to A&E immediately due to a 1 in 10 chance of death.

I'm skeptical about this.. the side effects of those drugs directly cause those symptoms in pretty much all users?

 

[Shambles]

Ya, although those would also be similar to SS symptoms on paper the reality is somewhat different. With SS it's complete delirium, convulsions and agony. The afflicted person would very obviously need urgent medical treatment to anybody who saw them whilst they themselves are totally unaware of what's happening cos they're convulsing in agony and completely delirious.

 

[helium-4]

I don't doubt for a second that 6-APB could easily cause SS in combination with tramadol or an MAOi cos everything along the lines of 6-APB is pretty dodgy on the SS front with stuff like that. Not so sure about SSRIs cos they usually block the effects rather than cause SS. An SSRI combined with an MAOi probably wouldn't be a wise move with or without adding 6-APB.

SSRI's can cause SS if the other substance in question is serotonin releaser. SSRI's can block the effect of 5-htxx agonists as the serotonin obviously bind to the same receptors.

 

[pofacedhoe]

SSRI's can cause SS if the other substance in question is serotonin releaser. SSRI's can block the effect of 5-htxx agonists as the serotonin obviously bind to the same receptors.

as far as i am aware the big danger of ssri's is combining them with maoi's, having taken mdma and mdea with citalopram in my system i noticed that they blunted the md__ effects. anyone with any experience of mephedrone and ssri's wann chime in. i knew someone who was taking mephedrone along with citalopram and was no worse than before they started citalopram. mephedrone, mdma, mdea are all serotonin releasers.

maoi's are the most dangerous category in general as combining them with releasers or reuptake inhibitors leads to SS or hypertensive crisis

 

[helium-4]

of course, I still would be careful with the idea of combining something that release serotonin as well has having something that prevents it evacuation from the synapses. I haven't read to much into this to give examples of SS from combo of SSRI's and a releaser, but still something to atleast be weary about.

 

[sjw]

So is 5-htp a MAOI? Last time I took 6-apb I took four 5-htp capsules afterwards, before going to bed, with no ill effect.

I also thought 6-apb was similar to MDMA in the way it acts, and people often recommend taking 5-htp after using MDMA.. so I'm a bit confused.

 

[Xamkou]

What does SS feel like?

 

[windowpaine]

I call shenanigans. This has the classic hallmarks of anti-drug propaganda. Yes, there is danger from unregulated drugs but posting as if 10% of the people will die if they "become hot" under the influence of a drug is bullshit at best and fear mongering at worst.

 

[chasing_s]

So is 5-htp a MAOI? Last time I took 6-apb I took four 5-htp capsules afterwards, before going to bed, with no ill effect.

I also thought 6-apb was similar to MDMA in the way it acts, and people often recommend taking 5-htp after using MDMA.. so I'm a bit confused.

nope but 5-htp is a precursor for serotonin. taking it after is not that much of a problem, apart from if you take fuck tonnes and give yourself SS that way. the problem could be taking them at the same time as they both raise levels of serotonin in your system. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some MAOI activity from 6-apb as there is some from amphetamine or mdma but it reasonably weak in comparison to something like PMA, however that's just by the by.