Voting on I-502 just beginning of long road for marijuana issue

slimvictor

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
6,477
Location
"Darkness cannot be dissipated with more darkness.
If the polls are accurate, Washington is set to become the first state to legalize the recreational use of marijuana for people over 21.

The University of Washington found 55 percent of likely voters were in favor of I-502. Their poll, conducted about one week before the election, found just 38 percent opposed the initiative.

The Washington Secretary of State's Office describes the measure this way:

This measure would license and regulate marijuana production, distribution, and possession for persons over twenty-one; remove state-law criminal and civil penalties for activities that it authorizes; tax marijuana sales; and earmark marijuana-related revenues.

Economics of Legalizing Marijuana

The financial issues might be even more complicated than either side realizes.

The first, obvious economic impact of I-502 is the taxes it would place on marijuana once pot is legalized. To figure out just how much money that will bring in, Professor Jonathan Caulkins at Carnegie Melon University says we first have to know the price of pot. He says that will change once it is legal.

"Marijuana is essentially an agricultural crop [...] there's no reason why it should be nearly as expensive as it is except for the prohibition," Caulkins says.

Caulkins compares the production of legal pot to the growing of crops like apples or tea. There are estimates the price could drop by as much as 50 percent.

The Washington initiative sets up a three-tiered tax system where it would be taxed at 25 percent at the production level, at the distribution level, and at the point of sale.

"The price decline would greatly reduce the revenues relative to what you would naively project if you imagined that it was still going to be $10 or $12 a gram," says Caulkins.

There is also a financial risk that comes along with legalizing marijuana. It could set up a battle with the federal government, which still considers the drug illegal.

While there might not be any large savings to the state by not enforcing the prohibition of pot, Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron says there would likely be secondary effects on our economy. For example, Washington's 8.5 percent unemployment rate might drop.

"The number of people employed wouldn't necessarily change very much. It would just be that someone who had been employed as an illegal marijuana grower would now be a legal marijuana grower," Miron says.

There likely would be a positive economic impact from the legalization of marijuana. Unfortunately, there are too many variables for anyone to guess just how much.

Miron and Caulkins agree the financial argument should not be the main consideration for people deciding whether or not to support legalizing marijuana.

Driving Under the Influence of Drugs

Legalizing marijuana could affect more than just where users buy their drug of choice. It could seriously impact how those users are prosecuted for Driving Under the Influence of Drugs.

Initiative 502 sets up a limit of five nanograms of THC per milliliter of blood. Any more than that and drivers could be prosecuted. While they would face the same penalties currently in place, some say the threshold set by the new rules would be unfair.

"I'm a medical marijuana user. I wake up at 3 to 4 times the legal limits when I wake up in the morning, and I guarantee you I'm not impaired," says Steve Sarich, spokesman for the No on 502 campaign.

Sarich worries the initiative to legalize recreational marijuana use in Washington state would result in the prosecution of medicinal users. While some users may be impaired at five nanograms, Sarich says he has built up a tolerance. He claims it takes a lot more of the drug to make him too affected to drive.

"At 50 nanograms I'm definitely not impaired," says Sarich, "It is such an individual thing."

While Sarich says studies are mixed on the effects of marijuana on driving ability, Forensic Toxicologist Dave Michaelson says it is clear to him. THC affects the hippocampus more than any other area of the body. Michaelson explains, that's the computer portion of the brain that controls reactions to outside stimulus.

"What happens is it starts affecting how fasts you can respond if a child jumps out into the road you ability to quickly slam on the brakes is going to be affected. It's going to take longer," says Michaelson.

With DUI laws applying to liquor on the books for decades, many drivers have become used to being able to measure their intoxication level and wait the appropriate time before getting behind the wheel.

One problem with marijuana, according to Michaelson, is that the math is not so easy.

Not only does THC add up in a person at different rates based on how frequently they've used the drug in the past, it also can dissipate at different rates. That's because alcohol is a water-soluble substance while THC is fat-soluble.

"If you spilled alcohol on your hands and washed them in the sink, that alcohol would be off in a matter of moments," Michaelson explains. "But if you spilled oil on your hands and you then put your hand under a water faucet, it's takes a lot of time if you're not using soap to get that oil off your hands."

For daily users of marijuana whose fat cells are already saturated with THC, Michaelson says it can take weeks or even months for the drug to get below the five nanogram limit set under I-502. Even though the user may not currently feel high, he says the THC is still affecting their ability to drive safely.

"Even though the driver won't necessarily feel high," Michaelson says, "the actual effect of that THC will continue on them to a lesser degree."

cont at
http://mynorthwest.com/11/2121310/V...for-marijuana-issue?google_editors_picks=true
 
"I'm a medical marijuana user. I wake up at 3 to 4 times the legal limits when I wake up in the morning, and I guarantee you I'm not impaired," says Steve Sarich, spokesman for the No on 502 campaign.


It will certainly be interesting to see how this turns out, I will be quite sad if we decide this is a better law for our state than I-514 would be though...
 
Compared to the previous criteria for DUI (*any* detectable THC) I think that the benefits far outweigh the risks here.

Glad to see some electorates have some sense in their heads. Maybe I will consider uncrossing some parts of the US off my vacation list seeing as they have realised jailing people over a goddamn plant is a waste of everyone's time.
Now whether or not the Feds decide to be a bunch of autonomy-denying turds is another issue.
 
Am I right in thinking that cannabis doesn't or hardly impairs your ability to drive?

It may make people seem a bit more dopey but it makes your train of thought more linear.. which would be good for most drivers?

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/05/study_marijuana_doesnt_affect_driving_performance.php

http://www.newser.com/story/91118/smoking-pot-doesnt-affect-the-way-you-drive.html

Anyone got a link to the study?
 
I would imagine if you don't smell like pot and aren't driving too conservatively, there's no grounds to investigate you for a DUI except a road stop (like at Christmastime).
 
Am I right in thinking that cannabis doesn't or hardly impairs your ability to drive?

It may make people seem a bit more dopey but it makes your train of thought more linear.. which would be good for most drivers?

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/

Anyone got a link to the study?

It does not exist. It was an ingenious marketing ploy by the insurance quote website. They got a ton of clicks out of it. See my comments when this issue first surfaced:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...vers-Than-Non-Marijuana-Users-New-Study-Shows
 
whoever said marijuana makes your thought process more linear.. youre smoking the mexican shit.
 
Congrats -

Washington enthusiastically leapt into history Tuesday, becoming the first state, with Colorado, to reject federal drug-control policy and legalize recreational marijuana use.

Initiative 502 was winning 55 to 45 percent, with support from more than half of Washington's counties, rural and urban.

The vote puts Washington and Colorado to the left of the Netherlands on marijuana law, and makes them the nexus of a new social experiment with uncertain consequences. National and international media watched as vote counts rolled into I-502's election-night party in Seattle amid jubilant cheers.


http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019621894_elexmarijuana07m.html


I would like to know if we could export the stuff to Canada for sale. . If so could we put a tarrif on and it could be applied to our trade deficit.
 
I would like to know if we could export the stuff to Canada for sale. . If so could we put a tarrif on and it could be applied to our trade deficit.

It's not currently legal in Canada, so you wouldn't be able to, though honestly part of the reason it wasn't was because of the US war on drugs. We're something like 70% pro legalization in polls so I would expect Canada to follow suit if these initiatives continue in the US and pressure backs off accordingly.

We do already have a lot of infrastructure for local growing though, I'm not sure if there'd be a significant demand for US grown pot. Then again I see apples and stuff from the US all the time, so who knows. Definitely with the love of different strains the trade will go both ways, a big question for me is whether Canadian leadership will be far sighted enough to grow our industry, so to speak, so that we don't get flooded with foreign product because of the US's head start. Not to sound hostile to the US or anything - I'd just hate to see our local industry disappear because of poor planning.
 
Last edited:
"BC Bud" is almost a brand name, so I hear, so I don't think Canada has to worry about WA state flooding us with chronic. We have some serious growers on this side of the 49th.

Expect the pot market to be mostly state-level domestic at first, especially when even interstate commerce involving herb is going to be iffy (thanks, feds.).
 
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the bordering states start to amp up law enforcement presence near the borders to catch people that are going to buy weed and come back.
 
"I'm a medical marijuana user. I wake up at 3 to 4 times the legal limits when I wake up in the morning, and I guarantee you I'm not impaired," says Steve Sarich, spokesman for the No on 502 campaign.

...

For daily users of marijuana whose fat cells are already saturated with THC, Michaelson says it can take weeks or even months for the drug to get below the five nanogram limit set under I-502.

I was just looking into this and it seems that daily users are getting below 5 ng/mL blood THC within a day of smoking:

http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/conte...html?sid=04e55f7d-1387-4df3-984a-6e8bb1f7d0f5

(Keep in mind that this study uses plasma concentration, blood concentration is approximately half of this.)

I keep hearing about medical marijuana users always being above 5 ng/mL, does anyone have a legitimate source for this?
 
Top