Visuals From Different Mushroom Strains

[huolesoh]

^ good to hear of personal experiences with a variety of native strains!

it seems people do find differences between variations of mushrooms

must be the chemical makeup or just general magic

a read one person's perspective which seemed somewhat romantic yet plausible, he said;
"i find the strain mushroom or cacti to feel like the habitat it originates from"

 

[Ismene]

seems people do find differences between variations of mushrooms

must be the chemical makeup or just general magic

Or just placebo.

Remember none of the people you're talking about took capsuled mushrooms where they had no idea what they were taking. They were taking them with the mindset "These are so and so mushrooms renowned for their highly visual and righteously mellow effect".

So, amazingly...they had a righteously mellow trip. Just like they were told.

 

[Incunabula]

There are at least two other compounds besides psilocin and psilocybin that have been isolated from psilocybin mushrooms. They are baeocystin and norbaeocystin. Apparently a 10mg dose of baeocystin appeared to have about the same level of psychoactivity as psilocybin. (Quoting wikipedia here, so...you know.) Its a given that we can't really know the exact levels of any chemicals in our mushrooms, short of using full on laboratory analysis. So I really don't think that its a huge jump of logic to speculate that different varieties and batches could have different ratios and this slightly altered effects profiles. Of course state of mind, dose, and even diet can effect the subjective effects. I say try as many kinds as you can, and if you happen to consistently find that one type works best for you, go ahead and pursue those. Why not?

Quoted for truth. http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml

My subjective experience was that Cyanescens seemed more clinical/pure with vivid saw-tooth distortions as opposed to the blurry dreamy organic visuals from Cubensis. Cyanescens actually reminded me more of acid in retrospect, before I ever tried acid back then.

This is my findings as well.

 

[sadaddaspie]

I've no doubt that different strains/potencies and psilocybin/psilocin ratios and god knows what else can very well change the experience dramatically, but these are mushrooms man, no two experiences are alike. I've ground up an ounce of mushrooms into fine powder and mixed it thoroughly, theoretically making it uniform potency, and tripped harder off 2.3 grams than I did on 4.5 grams a couple months earlier. Also, there's no single measure of an intensity in a trip. Sometimes the my cognitive function is barely altered and my visuals are CRAZY and intense, sometimes I hardly have any visuals but my cognition is turned inside out. Most of the time, I don't get closed eye visuals at all. One time I took an 8th and was barely noticing any effects what so ever for 3 hours, got bored and went and laid down and the second I shut my eyes was engulfed by the most awesome imagery I've ever seen, and I ended up laying there on my couch watching this flowing, living, abstract, earthy colored art drift and morph itself for hours.

I think it comes down to the complexity of your brain and all the different factors, many of which we could never even fathom. Psilocybin is simple, a brain is not, but psilocybin can drastically alter the way a brain functions. I wouldn't be so quick to associate the differences in your first two experiences with being caused by what you consumed necessarily, you're right, that could be it, but with psychedelics you never really know what you're in for and it would be strange if your expectations actually had a tendency to be like what ends up happening.

 

[Charleston_Car]

Makes sense, in different species of mushrooms there's gotta be different chemical cocktails, from what I`ve read there`s more than just psilocybin in em, 2 or 3 more that are known so far.
Could've just been a subjective thing, though. Expectations, set and setting, ect ect

 

[Black Octagon MK 2]

I've no doubt that different strains/potencies and psilocybin/psilocin ratios and god knows what else can very well change the experience dramatically, but these are mushrooms man, no two experiences are alike...I think it comes down to the complexity of your brain and all the different factors, many of which we could never even fathom. Psilocybin is simple, a brain is not, but psilocybin can drastically alter the way a brain functions. I wouldn't be so quick to associate the differences in your first two experiences with being caused by what you consumed necessarily, you're right, that could be it, but with psychedelics you never really know what you're in for and it would be strange if your expectations actually had a tendency to be like what ends up happening.

Well said. Taking psychedelics isn't so much about 'exploring mushrooms' or 'exploring LSD' but rather exploring your own mind. When I take mushrooms, there are visuals...but there are way more when I concentrate on the visual aspects of the experience. Same goes for the euphoria and sense of inner peace. Same goes for paranoia and all the hell that comes with a bad trip. The experience is in the eyes of the beholder, and in my view this is a far more powerful factor than different 'strains' of mushroom

 

[sadaddaspie]

Well said. Taking psychedelics isn't so much about 'exploring mushrooms' or 'exploring LSD' but rather exploring your own mind. When I take mushrooms, there are visuals...but there are way more when I concentrate on the visual aspects of the experience. Same goes for the euphoria and sense of inner peace. Same goes for paranoia and all the hell that comes with a bad trip. The experience is in the eyes of the beholder, and in my view this is a far more powerful factor than different 'strains' of mushroom

excellently put about it being an exploration of your mind rather than a drug (hence psychedelic meaning mind-manifesting) and about the euphoria, inner peace, paranoia, everything bad about a bad trip, and the whole experience being a product of YOUR mind - it absolutely is. There may be perfectly valid technical pharmodynamic factors that do drastically shape your experience but I personally think that it's absurd to judge your experience and associate any of it's characteristics with those factors with any confidence; there's just too wide a range of possibilities for profoundly different experiences that the exact same dose of the exact same chemical can be a catalyst for.

 

[DwayneHoover]

seems people do find differences between variations of mushrooms

must be the chemical makeup or just general magic

Or just placebo.

Remember none of the people you're talking about took capsuled mushrooms where they had no idea what they were taking. They were taking them with the mindset "These are so and so mushrooms renowned for their highly visual and righteously mellow effect".

So, amazingly...they had a righteously mellow trip. Just like they were told.

Oh you're just making that up, pulling it outta yer ass, inventing it from thin air, weaving it from whole cloth. You have no idea what other people actually did or experienced or why. Quit acting like such a know-it-all. Kiss kiss.

 

[Ismene]

Come again? You think they took their mushrooms double-blind capsuled? Don't you think that's pretty unlikely Dwayne? At least try and make sense when you post.

Love and hugs

 

[Solipsis]

I've no doubt that different strains/potencies and psilocybin/psilocin ratios and god knows what else can very well change the experience dramatically, but these are mushrooms man, no two experiences are alike. I've ground up an ounce of mushrooms into fine powder and mixed it thoroughly, theoretically making it uniform potency, and tripped harder off 2.3 grams than I did on 4.5 grams a couple months earlier.

A fine post, but to be clear what exactly is your point? Don't answer that, instead let me ask you this: do you still think "these are mushrooms man, and no two experiences are alike" is because of the variation in dose and proportion of alkaloids between each individual session? I am interested to hear from someone who has made their batch of mushrooms homogeneous how much variation they found between trips. A way to do this by the way is to simply grind your batch of mushrooms to a powder, that way the concentrations are a constant as long as you account for degradation. I think that part of this variation will disappear and become more similarly reliable to acid (although it still does not have the same dose-response curve mind you). But, it is also certainly possible that even homogenizing will not eliminate the variation because the more complex a mix of alkaloids is the more erratic you might expect an effect from it to be since there is modulation of one compound by another going on, and modulation of modulation, etc. Which is a different pharmacodynamics story than a single pure compound like acid (ignoring for a moment the possibility of active analogues like iso-LSD which may or may not contribute to more or less bodyload for example).

 

[sadaddaspie]

A fine post, but to be clear what exactly is your point? Don't answer that, instead let me ask you this: do you still think "these are mushrooms man, and no two experiences are alike" is because of the variation in dose and proportion of alkaloids between each individual session? I am interested to hear from someone who has made their batch of mushrooms homogeneous how much variation they found between trips. A way to do this by the way is to simply grind your batch of mushrooms to a powder, that way the concentrations are a constant as long as you account for degradation. I think that part of this variation will disappear and become more similarly reliable to acid (although it still does not have the same dose-response curve mind you). But, it is also certainly possible that even homogenizing will not eliminate the variation because the more complex a mix of alkaloids is the more erratic you might expect an effect from it to be since there is modulation of one compound by another going on, and modulation of modulation, etc. Which is a different pharmacodynamics story than a single pure compound like acid (ignoring for a moment the possibility of active analogues like iso-LSD which may or may not contribute to more or less bodyload for example).

Similarly reliable to acid? Are you saying that LSD tends to be more consistent as a catalyst for experiences that have less variance? If so, I didn't know that. Shrooms are the only psychedelic (not counting e) that I've ever done but despite hearing about some distinguishable differences, I've heard so much that I can relate to from people who have tripped on acid that I thought I knew psychedelia in general fairly well but I'd never heard that specifically about acid before so now I'm really curious if that's what you meant. Regardless, the answer to your question is no, I don't still think (and didn't ever think or mean to say I thought) that the profound differences between every trip were due differences in those factors (dose / alkaloid ratios) - what I meant to say is that while surely those factors can play a part, I wouldn't be so quick to attribute them to drastically different experiences (especially between the OP's first and second trip, if he had tripped 5+ times with each variety, that would be a bit more compelling) and by mentioning the extreme variance in my personal experiences with a (supposedly) homogeneous batch, I was trying to imply that even with identical dosing, the intensity and character of the effects could still be wildly unpredictable. I hardly know anything about pharmacology, maybe the unknown factors contributing to the differences in my experiences (that I believe not to be dose differences) come down to something really simple like metabolism, or something psychological, I don't know, but the brain has so much going on that we're not aware of that I find it easy to believe there could be any number of neurological reasons for these profoundly different experiences and that it's not so easy to tell if it was merely a difference in that which we ingested and which acted as a chemical catalyst for the experience.

I have a problem with over-voicing my uncertainty... if that's clouding my point right now, what I mean to say that I suspect is the case is that the differences between the mushrooms the OP ate before his 1st and 2nd trip could have much less to do with the differences between his two experiences than he seems to think. If you thought I was saying that the difference in dose & alkaloid proportions were the primary causes for the noted differences in his two experiences (kind of the opposite of what I meant to say) that was probably just because I didn't make my point clearly as I also conceded the validity of the possibilities contrary to my point.

I think I accidentally answered the question you asked me not to answer, by answering the question you asked me to answer... and damn you for quoting me saying "These are mushrooms, man..." and bringing my inadvertent/habitual use of 'MAN' to my attention. I've got a friend who mocks me every once in a while when he notices my speech (not just what I say, but the voice and everything) occasionally lapse into something resembling that of Tommy Chong (when he's in character) for a moment, something that I'm not proud of and that I'd never have noticed if he didn't bring my attention to it. It can be funny but I also feel a bit retarded whenever I'm blind sided by that kind of self consciousness in that context. I just imagined myself saying "these are mushrooms, maaaaaan, nooo twoo experiences are alike!!" out loud when I read that quote and it didn't sound pretty.
8)

 

[huolesoh]

i think sadaddaspie 's point was that although the mushroom alkaloid makeup can variate depending on strain, so can your own biochemistry variate on a day to day basis (what you've eaten, how well you slept, the air pollution in your area, things in the tap water, how much sunlight the list goes on pretty much forever)

thus this can cause drastically different trips; regardless of what psychoactives you are eating

so there's two chemical makeups which can fluctuate and variate, to consider; your own and the mushroom

and he's saying that personal biochemistry and psychology could affect the trip more then the chemical balances (and personality?!?) of the mushroom

kinda just repeating myself if i write anymore. loops!

 

[obleo]

sorry if this is newb stuff haha have not read too much into mycology, but like with most living things, can each and every single mushroom have different levels of alkaloids, based on the various environmental aspects like the ones mentioned above ^ or how well the fungi is thriving? i cant imagine every single mushroom in a certain strain having the same amount of alkaloids? maybe thats true i dont know haha.

how would one even test the various visuals between strains being how every trip for every person can be different. I can understand other aspects of a trip varying on strains, maybe some feeling more euphoric than others? its hard to say for me, ive tripped multiple times on mushrooms, unfortunately most sources here dont know what strain they have. Maybe I need to look into it more and try and identify them myself which seems difficult with dry gooms, maybe there are easy keys in identifying dried or freshly picked shrooms.

 

[Bi0hazardOpeth]

I had a friend who used to grow different types of psilocybin mushrooms. Some of them were very similar in effects, but without a doubt, specific strains had different effects or personalities just like different cannabis strains. For instance:

Puerto Rican's (Strain) - Were very visual, and very much a stimulant type effect. I would find myself tapping my toes really fast and repeatedly for 20-30 minutes at a time sometimes while laying down tripping. A huge stimulant body load, similar to 2-ci in ways. The Puerto Ricans would give you vibration pulses of euphoria through out your body at the same time. I've never done MDMA, but everyone I knew who had done it always brought up how the Puerto Rican body effects were very similar to MDMA in ways. But I can't express how strongly stimulant they were, to the point of tapping my feet incredibly fast with no end in sight. ( Negative) -8 of 10 on the lethargy scale - which is the same as saying +8 on the stimulant scale.

B+ (Strain) - This was your typical or the most common mushroom experiences I've had. A 3 of 10 on the lethargic scale, with decent thoughts and ok visuals.. You can have great trips on B+, no doubt about that. But it did not have the stimulant effect (bodyload) wise at all. Completely non-existent and even a little bit over to the lethargic or overly relaxed sensation.

India Arisa? (I think that's how it's said) - This mushroom was an intense, 7 of 10 on the lethargic scale and about equally as psychedelically potent as the B+. But these felt like smoking a strong indica.

Sometimes I would combine the India Arisa with the Puerto Ricans to get a nice puerto rican trip while removing much of the body load and possible anxiety from combining the India Arisa's.

And this is only a small sampling of the different strains out there, if you go to spore vendors they have 70+ strains sometimes.
We should create a database where people can rate different effects or strain personalities - and try to setup an understanding of which strains tend to lead towards certain physical, psychedelic, or perceptive qualities.

I understand that trips can be very subjective, but things like a strong stimulant body load, or greatly increased relaxation or lethargy in certain strains has been consistently reproduced. Even consistently balanced effects when mixed.

I would like to see the differences between strains explored more.

 

[suffocating sky]

when i lived in florida and i was younger i used to go pick my own all the time.
i would have the normal psilocybe cubensis, along with blue meanies, and some weird ones that probably just a different kinds.
anyway, i know how set and setting affect the outcome, but i did noticeably have different affects from eating different mushrooms.
there were days when i would just eat a bunch of copes, or more of them than cubes, and i had very different visuals.
there have been times when i wouldn't really get great visuals but an amazing body buzz, and there were times when i had both. i don't necessarily take that as being from different strains, because like it has been said, every trip is different.
i realize now in retrospect that the amounts i would eat, or drink after a maggot incident, were rather large compared to what most people would take or recommend.
back to the point though, one day i had picked a bunch of blue meanies, along with tons of others, but i found this like dried up pond with 100s of these mushrooms that looked like cubes, but were shaped far differently than i was used to.
i don't mean a like you'd usually find a few that didn't look like the average cube, all of them around that pond were peculiar.
that day i ate a bunch of the copes and these weird cubes, and i CEVs of like, kaleidoscopic mushrooms spinning around in my head. i had similar visuals times before when eating mostly copes or them along with the cubensis.
i read on erowid once that this is common of liberty caps, and its thought to be caused by larger amounts of baeocystin or something along those lines. it had never happened to me just eating cubes, or since then eating kit mushrooms.
i read this after having those trips and i thought it was kind of odd.
you can say a mushroom is a mushroom, but thats like saying a bud is a bud.


one thing i was going to mention though, throughout all of my experiences on mushrooms, i always knew i was on mushrooms. it may be that i've just done them a lot, but i swear that when i would get visuals, they would almost always be kind of the same, the patterns on everything, including my skin, the distortions the breathing etc...
lsd has been like this to an extent too, but not so much for me, maybe because i've done less of it.
i swear that i can still make up the patterns if i stare at something long enough, and i still can't figure out if its just me, or if i have some hppd from doing too much too fast and too often.

sorry if there are redundancies in my post, my brain moves to fast for me sometimes, and i'm eating....

 

[Ismene]

i think sadaddaspie 's point was that although the mushroom alkaloid makeup can variate depending on strain

What different strains are people getting tho? 99% of the mushrooms you get in the UK are going to be either liberty caps or cubensis. That's a grand total of two "strains".

And this is only a small sampling of the different strains out there, if you go to spore vendors they have 70+ strains sometimes.

These arn't different "strains" - all those are psilocybe cubensis. Psilocybe Cubensis arn't going to have wildly different alkaloid levels - they're the same mushroom.

It's about making money isn't it - the key to making money is being able to convince someone to pay for the same product in a different wrapper. I knew several vendors in Holland who just used to pick mexican cubensis at different stages of growth and sell it as a different named cubensis. It's like selling washing powder - put it in a different box and everyone goes "Wow".

things like a strong stimulant body load, or greatly increased relaxation or lethargy in certain strains has been consistently reproduced.

Only if you tell them first that "this mushroom creates a strong stimulant bodyload". That's the power of the placebo effect. If you simply give them any of the 70+ different names and say "This is a mushroom - enjoy it" you'll get different effects because that's the nature of psilocybin, but you certainly won't get any consensus about it.

Try it yourself - capsule up different types and ask someone else to give them to you. See if you can ever tell the difference. I've done it - and I've taken mushrooms hundreds of times - and I can NEVER tell what mushroom it is.

 

[huolesoh]

yes there's some sweet looking mushrooms originating from Florida

the commercial "Treasure Coast" mushroom is from Florida

 

[Bi0hazardOpeth]

Only if you tell them first that "this mushroom creates a strong stimulant bodyload". That's the power of the placebo effect.

I'm not saying that false marketing doesn't exist, of course it does and I am one to point it out when I come across it. However, in the same light I am one to express the consistent psycho-active effects of varying strains. Smart shops that sell mushrooms, could easily be mislabeling the same thing as different names. But from spores each of the strains, do grow differently - they are varying phenos through different species. I completely agree that 70% or so of the mushrooms strains I tried have the "same" effect. Within that spectrum of genetics you could give me mixed capsules and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The strong stimulant effect was clear as day in the PR's, every time without fail, and my friends would say the same thing about the stimulant intense internal energy/body load - without me even mentioning the stimulant effect - every time. I mean it was such a strong excess energy bodyload it is pretty hard to ignore - it reminded me of the stimulant like body load from 24mg of 2c-i.

However, there are specific strains - I got to try 20+ strains self grown from professional spores. They all grew in different forms. The potential of alkaloid/chemical synergy in different strains that work as an entourage effect (chemically) to influence the effects of psilocybin/psilocin is quite possible and exists in many forms of nature. This same mistake was made with Cannabis - They said that THC was the "only" active chemical at first, and totally ignored the synergistic effects that CDB (cannabidiol), CBN, CBC, THV and all the other cannabinoids found in cannabis had on THC. And how different ratios of these cannabinoids will change the type of high in cannabis, or even remove memory issues associated with THC, which CDB does.

I appreciate your reply, and well, let's call them posits on the situation. With all due respect, I feel you made some assumptions in your post that do not stand true to the situations at hand.

Each of the strains grow/look different from each other. I understand they have similar alkaloid levels - of chemicals that get processed into psilocybin. However, that doesn't account for synergistic potential of chemicals in different mushrooms. Concerning the Puerto rican's you wrote the quote - "Only if you tell them first that "this mushroom creates a strong stimulant bodyload". That's the power of the placebo effect."

The first time I tried PR's I was given nothing more than 3 oz's with the names Peurto Ricans, India Arisa, B+ (all grown by the same person in the exact same environment). I used them over a year, every single time the Peurto Rican's had such a strong stimulant effect, I would have to tap my feet at lightning speed to release all the excess energy I had (Very few mushrooms have ever done this for me). It felt like being on 60mg of Ritalin or 24mg of 2c-i. In contrast, The India Arisas were extremely sedative, every-time. I would go an hour into a PR trip and take some India arisas and as soon as they kicked in 'the jittery - need to release energy from my body with no end in sight feeling' would fade away. If I took the India arisas by it self I would never tap by feet once, but feel in a "chill" relaxed trip state - smooth not jittery.

I had no prior persuasions or conversations about the effects of the Puerto Ricans or any of the other strains. All that is available online about the PR's is that they are "hard to grow, and very potent". I'm trying to conceptualize why you had to push the "reasoning" of: it has to be a placebo effect as and objective conclusion, especially when it doesn't fit the context of the situation at all. There was no stimuli to influence such a placebo effect, all i had was a 3 bags of mushrooms to experience during that pick up.

But again, absolutely no placebo effect, even though you wanted to slam that unfounded conclusion through - prior to understanding the situation. As if your expectations for things overrule the thought of any other possibilities in the equation. Hopefully this doesn't get in the way of you considering the notion that their might be effects or strains that go beyond your first hand experience. The basis of having a lack of exposure to something doesn't mean that a manifestation of it has to be placebo. That is opposite of scientific method and the nature of discovery. However, now that we understand there was no stimuli for a placebo effect - I would like you to inoculate some Peurto Ricans - It's $15, and see how they have a stimulant body load comparable to 2c-x's and a boost of energy beyond the 70% of mushroom strains that have the same effect. It's a truly wonderful strain and trip.

It has been an absolutely night and day phenomenon between all the people who tried it blind to such effects. Some people didn't like it because of how speedy they were, but I think it gets your brains flying at the same speed as your endlessly tapping feet - so I love it. It was consistently verbalized to me by people taking them with no pre-conceptions of a stimulant effect.

Hope to hear that your spectrum of mushroom experiences broadens from the use of specific exotic strains - and you get to experience some of the possibly rare varying effects that are consistent in specific strains.

Best Regards,

Bi0hazard

 

[Ismene]

The first time I tried PR's I was given nothing more than 3 oz's with the names Peurto Ricans, India Arisa, B+ (all grown by the same person in the exact same environment). I used them over a year, every single time the Peurto Rican's had such a strong stimulant effect,

But obviously once you've got a very speedy effect off one batch of mushrooms the next time you take them you're going to be looking out for the speedy effects arn't you. It's self-perpetuating.

I've been through the same thing. I had two jars in the freezer - one with capsuled sclerotica and the other with capsuled mushrooms. For months I was taking each one and I'd convinced myself that the sclerotica wern't as "visual" as the mushroom, that they had completely different effects, a different bodyload, different mental space.

Then I took some capsules one day and had the most visual, wonderful, cleanest trip I'd ever had. I was thinking to myself "I'm never going to bother with sclerotica again - they simply can't compare to real mushrooms".

Then I looked in the freezer and realised I'd taken the sclerotica by mistake. That put paid to all my theories about the difference between strains.

Psilocybin all by itself can have enormously different effects - one day it can be speedy, the next it can be sleepy. That's just the nature of psilocybin.

I would like you to inoculate some Peurto Ricans

I'll give them a try just for you Bio! I've got B+ and golden teachers colonising at the moment.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I'm trying to conceptualize why you had to push the "reasoning" of: it has to be a placebo effect as and objective conclusion, especially when it doesn't fit the context of the situation at all. There was no stimuli to influence such a placebo effect, all i had was a 3 bags of mushrooms to experience during that pick up.

But again, absolutely no placebo effect, even though you wanted to slam that unfounded conclusion through - prior to understanding the situation. As if your expectations for things overrule the thought of any other possibilities in the equation.

Because, while Ismene is an awesome contributor, very experienced, highly intelligent and articulate, and without doubt a really cool person... he seems typically convinced that his intellectual conclusions are superior to everyone else's and always above reproach, period. Even if documented data is weak or absent, his mind closes around the most straightforward simplest hypothetical constructs like a steel trap and that's the end of that. Its just his style.

But you've managed to convince him to be open to an experiment with the PR's so kudos to you both! Of course, since he's already arrived at such a firm conclusion, even if a friend should randomly give him doses of "normal" and PRs, he would by his own theory be under an overwhelming suggestion bias to NOT find them any different, when perhaps another person who had no idea why he was being asked to compare would be open to noticing, so I guess he'll need to run his trials on totally "blind" subjects

[Sorry to stick my stupid nose into you guys' very fine exchange (really! I've loved it, great work guys)... it's that late hour when my compulsion to be a smart ass is more active, as is MY annoying tendency. ]