i grew up to mix on vinyl..i now play on cdj's (cheaper) ..but still have 14 crates of vinyl i mix at home..and still buy vinyl..but i can download more tracks than i own on vinyl in the time it takes (if i order online) for the order to arrive.. so i agree with a few..disagree with a few..
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Music Moderators: Shinji Ikari
Vinyl dj'ing a dying art.
- Thread starter Hunter_thatsmyname
- Start date
AuralAssassin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2005
- Messages
- 267
If you are busy worrying about whether or not the DJ is playing vinyl, CD, Ableton, or an Unplugged MPC, then you fail to grasp the major component here...
IF YOU ARE FUCKING DANCING, YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN SEE THE DJ. What makes coverbands so special anyway?
If you're not playing all your own production, stfu about the format. 3 pages of waste drivel I shit you not. I nominate this thread for dumbest pile of shit on the internet. Oh, look at me, I'm playing someone elses music on CD... oh look at me, I'm playing someone elses music on vinyl...
it's still some other persons music. You didn't produce it? Then who fucking cares what you think about the format. Buy it or don't. I think the vast majority of people who prefer digital only also prefer to steal their music. And it's not the fact that they play digital only that leads me entirely to that conclusion, so much as the fact that 80% of people steal all of their music. Every track of it. You can't download records. I am 1000% more supportive when I hear a tune from my label in an all vinyl mix. I know for a fact they didn't rob me. 80% of the time that guy with the laptop did.
In terms of actual ability to get shit done, whatever works for you works for you. Sell both formats or you'll be cutting out a large group either way. Most importantly though is to just STFU.
If you play any format, why don't you stop talking and start playing.
IF YOU ARE FUCKING DANCING, YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN SEE THE DJ. What makes coverbands so special anyway?
If you're not playing all your own production, stfu about the format. 3 pages of waste drivel I shit you not. I nominate this thread for dumbest pile of shit on the internet. Oh, look at me, I'm playing someone elses music on CD... oh look at me, I'm playing someone elses music on vinyl...
it's still some other persons music. You didn't produce it? Then who fucking cares what you think about the format. Buy it or don't. I think the vast majority of people who prefer digital only also prefer to steal their music. And it's not the fact that they play digital only that leads me entirely to that conclusion, so much as the fact that 80% of people steal all of their music. Every track of it. You can't download records. I am 1000% more supportive when I hear a tune from my label in an all vinyl mix. I know for a fact they didn't rob me. 80% of the time that guy with the laptop did.
In terms of actual ability to get shit done, whatever works for you works for you. Sell both formats or you'll be cutting out a large group either way. Most importantly though is to just STFU.
If you play any format, why don't you stop talking and start playing.
Full Effect
Bluelighter
hold on the skill of DJ-ing is tune selection, doesn't matter if you don't produce there seperate skills, sure some DJ's do both and I always say the record producer is the star of the show but don't knock tune selection, it's like been the coach of a sports team, sure you got the players but you have to use them right.
The thread is a valid one what's wrong with discussing the format ? Yeah it's really all about the music but format is a interesting subject imo ?
AuralAssassin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2005
- Messages
- 267
The format was an interesting subject back when CDJ first came around. 10 years later though, it's time to grow the fuck up and get over it.
Our label sells vinyl and digital. I play vinyl and digital. Does a painter only use one colour of paint, or one brush or one medium? He's a shit painter. Definitely not what I'd call an artist. And the skill of DJing isn't tune selection by itself... it's mixing in key, matching those beats and lastly tune selection...
if you mix a bunch of shit tunes together extremely well, you're far better in my eyes than someone with great tunes and unable to mix them. What you mix them on means nothing. I want to skullfuck every person who tells me one format is better than another I swear. Fuck off all the self important types.
You're a DJ, not an artist. My 3 1/2 month old son knows what music and toys he likes. Must be a real great DJ then.
Our label sells vinyl and digital. I play vinyl and digital. Does a painter only use one colour of paint, or one brush or one medium? He's a shit painter. Definitely not what I'd call an artist. And the skill of DJing isn't tune selection by itself... it's mixing in key, matching those beats and lastly tune selection...
if you mix a bunch of shit tunes together extremely well, you're far better in my eyes than someone with great tunes and unable to mix them. What you mix them on means nothing. I want to skullfuck every person who tells me one format is better than another I swear. Fuck off all the self important types.
You're a DJ, not an artist. My 3 1/2 month old son knows what music and toys he likes. Must be a real great DJ then.
Full Effect
Bluelighter
Nah I like the new formats, the more the better really, my point is why do away with any of them ? vinyl is my favourite as it's how I started, and I like the collection side of it, plus for sound quality it is unbeatable, and I don't agree about good mixing with shit tunes beating bad mixing with good tunes, your avg crowd could not care less about the mix, sure it has to be competent but the track selection is the journey you take people on.
Like I said the analogy of been a sports coach is pretty true as far as dj-ing goes, the quality of your tunes and the order you use them is the key, your the coach the tunes are the players.
toa$t
Bluelighter
CelesteEve
Bluelighter
Being the wife of a DJ i can see the excitement when going to record stores, paging through the bins upon bins of records until finding a few choice pieces that were "needed". Thousands of hours and records later all you need to do is jump online and download that ever elusive track, burn to cd, put into your cd-j, set ready.
the passion the pride seems to be gone. part of being so wanted for gigs was the tracks you had and the talent you took to put those tracks together. Being able to find everything you need in one afternoon and time it all by evening really makes the need for GREAT djs obsolete.
the biggest enemy of great is good...so they say
the passion the pride seems to be gone. part of being so wanted for gigs was the tracks you had and the talent you took to put those tracks together. Being able to find everything you need in one afternoon and time it all by evening really makes the need for GREAT djs obsolete.
the biggest enemy of great is good...so they say
toa$t
Bluelighter
i have heard that argument before in many forms, but i think it kind of cuts both ways. if digital makes "GREAT djs obsolete," then to stand out you have to do things that are even more exceptional than simply finding great tracks. you spend less time digging for rarities, and since everyone has access to the same tracks, you have to find creative and innovative ways of mixing, switching between genres from one track to the next, interesting looping, acapellas, and all that stuff that just isn't available when using exclusively vinyl.
essentially, the biggest enemy of exceptional is great.
essentially, the biggest enemy of exceptional is great.
CelesteEve
Bluelighter
touche
I guess it just hurts to know all the time and effort put into finding the collection he has. its a pride thing. i completely understand the essence of being a dj
I guess it just hurts to know all the time and effort put into finding the collection he has. its a pride thing. i completely understand the essence of being a dj
.....and yes a lot of those things can be done with vinyl...its called being a talented dj. I have nothing against moving forward with new things but you still have to give respect when respect is due. Your saying that only people not playing original vinyl can truly be innovative. That just isnt true.
toa$t
Bluelighter
actually, you really can't. jumping between cue points, looping, chaining filters, matching drops on the fly, drop cueing... the list of things you can't do with a vinyl set up goes on and on and on, no matter how talented the dj.
that's practically a tautology. what we disagree about is when respect is due.
I most certainly did not say that.
Seven Deep
Bluelighter
Agreed. Although I find that I still spend as much total time searching for great tracks because now everyone and their mom runs a digital label and there's 10x more shit and mediocre-to-OK stuff clogging the stores. On one hand, that sucks because it can be really fucking tedious when you've flipped through 25 pages of new releases and found only one track....and you think you'll probably have to toss that out anyway because the jackwad didn't bother spending money on mastering so the mix is completely unacceptable.
On the other hand, being able to loop, you can actually find a good reason to buy tracks that have a good intro, or a few nice elements, but they fucked it up later with a horrible breakdown, corny bassline, divas wailing, ect.
toa$t
Bluelighter
seven deep, we're on the exact same wavelength. i could not agree more with the above.
Dissonance
Bluelighter
Toa$t, do you play out at all, out of what I read I know you produce, but how often do you play out?
I really don't DJ, i'm just kind of an audiophile, and the main thing I notice is that digi-dj's don't really have and sort of stage presence, or feel for an audience.
I mean, sure you could be cueing tracks and mixing flawlessly, but if you look like you're sitting there checking email or updating face book it's boring for the audience.
I personally see vinyl DJ's get more of what I like to call crowd control, that is, not just how something sounds through phones, monitors, etc, but how it sounds to listeners, the "ass-moving factor", if you will.
That's why guys like Ben Sims, who's weapons of choice are 3 technics, 2 CDJ's and a mixer, leave me in absolute awe.
I'd also like to say that many vinyl capabilities remain highly unexplored, I hardly see 2x4 sets anywhere. Here in Detroit we have DTM DJ's who do 2x4 sets that leave me riveted just because it's cool to see 2 styles blend into one.
I really don't DJ, i'm just kind of an audiophile, and the main thing I notice is that digi-dj's don't really have and sort of stage presence, or feel for an audience.
I mean, sure you could be cueing tracks and mixing flawlessly, but if you look like you're sitting there checking email or updating face book it's boring for the audience.
I personally see vinyl DJ's get more of what I like to call crowd control, that is, not just how something sounds through phones, monitors, etc, but how it sounds to listeners, the "ass-moving factor", if you will.
That's why guys like Ben Sims, who's weapons of choice are 3 technics, 2 CDJ's and a mixer, leave me in absolute awe.
I'd also like to say that many vinyl capabilities remain highly unexplored, I hardly see 2x4 sets anywhere. Here in Detroit we have DTM DJ's who do 2x4 sets that leave me riveted just because it's cool to see 2 styles blend into one.
toa$t
Bluelighter
I used to play out frequently, but real work has taken me to a city where that really isn't an option. this looks like it is about to change though. and I still travel for larger events once in a while.
i say if the crowd is too busy looking at what I am doing to listen to the music, they probably aren't worth controlling in the first place. sure, spinning seamlessly on four decks takes unbelievable talent, but it's a novelty. I can produce the exact same sound on a laptop with a midi controller. it's sort of like watching a pro tennis player play with his off hand. sure, they are probably still going to be pretty good, but why handicap yourself needlessly when at the end of the day, the music coming out of the speakers is all that really matters. if a laptop dj can't rock a party, it's not because they are playing on a laptop. it's because they probably aren't a good dj. as an audiophile, one would think that you would agree with me. i don't go to parties to see people do neat tricks. if that's your thing, that's fine. I go because I want to hear awesome tunes no matter the format.
an interesting thought experiment:
imagine you were at a party where you couldn't see the DJ. he plays an incredible set and totally blows you away. you later find out he was playing on a laptop. would that somehow lessen your experience?
same goes the other way. you hear a dj play a shit set and then find out he way playing vinyl. does that somehow make his set better?
I assume your answer would be no to both of these questions. if not, please explain. anyway, the idea is to show that at the end of the day, it's the message and not the medium that really wins people over.
Dissonance
Bluelighter
And I agree 100%, as long as the music coming out of the speakers sounds good who cares.
I just think, to a certain extent, that spending all one's time behind a laptop makes one immune to whom they are actually playing for.
I mean, I love Hawtin to death, but the last few times I've seen him he basically just plugs his headphones in and tunes out, and left to very mediocre sets.
Listening to music is easy to a certain extent, but realizing what it sounds like to others is a different story.
I just think, to a certain extent, that spending all one's time behind a laptop makes one immune to whom they are actually playing for.
I mean, I love Hawtin to death, but the last few times I've seen him he basically just plugs his headphones in and tunes out, and left to very mediocre sets.
Listening to music is easy to a certain extent, but realizing what it sounds like to others is a different story.
toa$t
Bluelighter
i agree insofar as hawtin's last few outing's that I have caught have been extremely lackluster (which sucks, because the first 5-6 times I saw him he was mindblowing, and in a totally unique way). but that was a result of his track selection, which I have no reason to suspect would have been any different had he been playing vinyl. also, hawtin has been playing digitally for ages.
also, I'm really not sure why the medium would effect your perception of how music sounds to others. that is, by the way, exactly the strategy I use when DJing. I try to think how I would react to the track if I were in the middle of the dancefloor. but i am able to do that whether I am playing digital or vinyl (yes, I do actually play vinyl sometimes, albeit rarely these days. it's just too expensive).
also, I'm really not sure why the medium would effect your perception of how music sounds to others. that is, by the way, exactly the strategy I use when DJing. I try to think how I would react to the track if I were in the middle of the dancefloor. but i am able to do that whether I am playing digital or vinyl (yes, I do actually play vinyl sometimes, albeit rarely these days. it's just too expensive).
ChemicalSmiles
Ex-Bluelighter
thats what all dj's should be doing....... toa$t is in POINT.
toa$t
Bluelighter
there is, however, a problem with doing things that way. I have used that strategy for so long that it has become almost completely automatic, and I now have pretty much zero appreciation for music that won't make a dancefloor explode.
Dissonance
Bluelighter
Dude, i'd love to hear a mix if you have any handy, i browsed the mix section really quick but it's kind of disorganized.
PM me or post em up!