Vinyl dj'ing a dying art.

to be honest: i dont think that psyghost needs an explanation of the term "mixing", hes active for years now, as far as i know. and i really really rreellllaayyy dont like that underlying aggressive vibe in this thread. hey guys, were talking about music here.

--> translation: what is fuckin g. w. bush doing in a thread about mixing? please try to keep insults and politics out of here.
 
brainbug said:
--> translation: what is fuckin g. w. bush doing in a thread about mixing? please try to keep insults and politics out of here.
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it was en expression of puzzlement at the poster's contradictory opinions and lack of explanations thereof.

this:
head-scratch-2.jpg


this:
puzzled-man.jpg


or perhaps eve this:
pope_face_palm.jpg


would have been equally effective.

sorry, I should have made that clear.
 
toa$t said:
really? I don't know how you would even begin to argue that playing other people's tracks with ableton is live production.
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Live editing is probably a better term. Creating re-edits on the fly is probably a little over what I would term as 'mixing' but as I say, semantics.
 
Traditions are traditions, personally, I don't care how good the DJ is if they're using a laptop or CD's then they're just not as good as someone who uses vinyl.
I mean, spending hours in a record store choosing what records you want is half the fun!
If you can use a computer to mix, then why not just use a program that mixes for you? Just cue up your tracks and go. It eliminates the cost of hiring a DJ.
It's not like you're paying for your music or your gear (and if you buy programs then your stupid) then there's no need for you to be paid, becuase you are just doing it for the love aren't you?
 
Streetsr said:
I mean, spending hours in a record store choosing what records you want is half the fun!
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I agree that the "community" aspect to shopping for records has disappeared. Also, one of the big trade-offs with cheap digital files becoming dominant is that it's harder to find the really special tracks and limited issue stuff that everyone might have just flipped over in the past. Everyone has the same access to the same tracks for the most part. You could argue then, that it now takes even more commitment and a keener ear to find stuff that will make a set unique. With the ability to loop sections alone, people can also take a few tracks that might be run of the mill and do something interesting with them.



Streetsr said:
If you can use a computer to make music, then why not just use a program that writes it for you? Just cue up a bunch of samples and go. It eliminates the cost of hiring a real musician or band.
It's not like you're paying for your samples or your instruments (and if you buy a sequencer or plugins then your stupid) then there's no need for you to be paid, becuase you are just doing it for the love aren't you?
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See how ridiculous that sounds when put in a related context?

This was the same bullshit argument DJs and EDM producers had to hear (still have to) for years because some insecure people into rock music had no idea what goes on behind a DJ rig or a MIDI studio.

Now some DJs are starting to sound old and stubborn. It's just technology. People said the same thing about electric guitars when they were invented too. Classical musicians said jazz musicians were lesser beings because they didn't or couldn't read charts. Jazz musicians pontificated on the inferiority of rock music because of it's simplicity and the fact it had to use amplification. Drummers (myself included) threw fits in the age when 808s and Linns were supposed to fully replace them in studios and bands. Ect..Ect...Ect.

It all boils down to people feeling threatened by new ways of doing the things they love. To be honest, if you're that afraid of becoming obsolete, your problem might have more to do with your own skill than someone else's lack of it.
 
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Seven Deep said:
It all boils down to people feeling threatened by new ways of doing the things they love. To be honest, if you're that afraid of becoming obsolete, your problem might have more to do with your own skill than someone else's lack of it.
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my initial response was to agree with this 100%, and that's definitely a minor part of the problem. however, I think the VAST majority of people who are 'diehard vinyl supporters' aren't worried about problems with their skill because they don't actually dj, have no idea what they are talking about. They just weighing in because they think liking vinyl and shitting on digital somehow makes them old school or purists or something else retarded.

newsflash: it doesn't. it makes you sound like you don't know shit about djing.
 
toa$t said:
the VAST majority of people who are 'diehard vinyl supporters' aren't worried about problems with their skill because they don't actually dj, have no idea what they are talking about. They just weighing in because they think liking vinyl and shitting on digital somehow makes them old school or purists or something else retarded.
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I guess my post was aimed at people who do DJ or produce in some capacity.

For people who are just into the music, nothing is worse than those with retarded scenester opinions meant to provoke memories of some golden age that you probably weren't even a part of. You just have to put your reservations into perspective when you're getting on your soapbox, and it becomes clearer. I'm sure there are old school hip hop fans who still moan about the time when everyone began thinking DJing was just some knob monkey beatmatching four-on-the-floor house music.

It seems pointless to me for anyone to decide "this is how far I go" in relation to accepting musical technology. 10 years from now I'm sure the people who started off on MIDI controllers and Ableton will be bitching about the kids using motion-gesture guided visual interface setups.

"But you aren't even touching something!! If it's all virtual, why even have a person at all?"
 
toa$t said:
you're a dj if you get gigs. that's it.
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Just your opinion. I know lots of djs that play for the fun of it. they dont need/want gigs.

toa$t said:
couldn't have said it better myself. if you think spinning vinyl is harder than spinning on a laptop, try rocking 3 decks and an acapella with a delay and a beatmasher in there. 'noobies' push the envelope by doing things that a vinyl dj can't even dream of. and if you do too much with the digital system and sound like shit like Acid Eiffel is talking about, that's not the fault of the medium. it means you are a shitty dj.
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I once tried syncing up four tracks... it was a lot easier to do this with software.


toa$t said:
this is simply not true. in fact, I don't think I know anyone who has started off on a digital system and then gone to turntables. i know tons of people who have gone the other way.

I love all the comments in these threads from people who have never touched a record in their lives (not you thujone, just in general).

pink_strawberry.jpg
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Are you implying that I have no experience?
haha whatever you say...



Seven Deep said:
I guess my post was aimed at people who do DJ or produce in some capacity...........
...It seems pointless to me for anyone to decide "this is how far I go" in relation to accepting musical technology. 10 years from now I'm sure the people who started off on MIDI controllers and Ableton will be bitching about the kids using motion-gesture guided visual interface setups.

"But you aren't even touching something!! If it's all virtual, why even have a person at all?"
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These were my thoughts! times are changing!
Personally, i like the new DJ softwares, esp. Serato! Having your entire music lib at your fingertips? you just cant beat that!

........

I have to admit, I am a little confused as to what the topic is again?

Good DJ or The Art of Vinyl ?

What makes a good dj is too broad of a question...
Radio DJs have differnet requirements as to what makes them good than a club dj has, know what i mean?

I've always had a "real djs use vinyl" additude however I dont discriminate agaiinst those who use cd players, virtual dj or whatever...

oh, and i def dont assume one to be inexperienced on the subject of DJing untill or unless I've heard them play...
 
i started djing on turntables, still have them. now i only use one for scratching. i use ableton and midi controllers now and theres no way id ever go back, its just not versatile enough for me. no effects, no looping.
if someone wants to think less of my talent because i no longer have to take the time to beatmatch, thats fine with me. they arent really concerned with the end result which is the music. id say the same with someone that thinks laptop sets are inherently better, try telling that to craze :D
in the end its not what youre using, its what your achieving.

also, none of the music i play even comes out on vinyl
 
^^^

Couldnt have said it better myself....

Software, laptops and everything has opened up a door to infinite creativity....I got tired of DJing when I had just vinyl b/c it felt like there was only so much i can do....You feel limited....Beatmatching is only the most basic level of DJing anyway....

I still do prefer the feel of vinyl and the act of doing it but its a small sacrifice in comparison to the infinite creativity that software provides....Scratching should be the only reason to have vinyl laying around....Even then look at how much more James Zabiela can do w/ a CDJ and an EFX machine....

Vinyl DJing is like:
tonka_mighty_dump_truck.jpg


Digital DJing:
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i started off on CDJs and realized this is not the skillful way to learn how to DJ. easy access to everything (like beatmatching, reading the wavelengths, etc) just made DJing so boring, especially when all you do is beatmatch house/techno. i even have the efx1000 and it still got boring for me. in the end i sold my CDJs and got some technics and now i've been spinning house, hip hop, breaks, brokenbeat, jazz, electronica, etc. and it proves to be a lot more of a challenge, promotes using your ear for everything, and just feels way more organic compared to DJing with CDs. i still have 1 CDJ1000mk3, but it just collects dust for now until i get a 4 channel mixer.

and i don't think vinyl is a dying art at all. in fact, i see it making a come back outside of the "rave" scene, where i find that all DJs use CDJs the majority of the time.
 
I haven't met many vinyl diehards that still DJ.

...just my experience thus far.
 
Vinyl isn't dying. The debate over vinyl vs digital is dying. Get over it. I play vinyl and digital formats. If I play someone I have on vinyl, I use tables... otherwise, CDJ or Ableton. They are all means to the same ends. Quit crying and grow up.

Thinking you are superior because you use vinyl/cd/program based methods is dying.
 
Hunter_thatsmyname said:
I'm a firm believer in the art form that is vinyl dj'ing but all these people with a version of fruity loops and an itunes playlist thinks there a dj. Anyway if anybody else feels the way I do let me know that we old schooler's have some supporters left!!!
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I'm totally with you dude, it saddens me how vinyl is been pushed out, you can't beat the rich sound of vinyl, plus for me the skill levels are far higher when mixing with vinyl, I'm not totally against CD'S/MP3's but for me vinyl will always be king and I also think it will survive, at least for this generation it will, but the hands on technique of vinyl for me is second to none, just pushing the record to nail the mix is what it's all about, it's like ecoustic guitars v Electric guitars, vinyl always will be the classical way to DJ.

Plus from a collectors point of view owning the vinyl is just awesome MP3's are basically invisible it's not like a collection, and when it was just vinyl you had certain records no-one else had, plus the whole skill of going out looking for records, searching for hours in cool little records shops to pick up a gem of a tune, the 1990's was the decade of the DJ !

Anyway i will always be vinyl although I do have one CDJ on my set up with two Technics 1200's mk 2's !
 
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