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Vegetarianism vs meat eating

Funny, if you veggies, vegans, meaties, etc. were not in a place of privilege, you wouldn't even have the opportunity to choose a life style or diet.

At least (what …say …85. percent ) of the world has little or no choice about what they eat in terms of meat or veggies. Eat or die. Yet, you/we/I argue about what we should or should not do in terms of diet. And then go as far as to say that it is "natural" or not....

Nice to be on top eh? Nice to be able to choose what you eat. If “most” people could read this, I think they would laugh at the rich folk’s debate.

Before you jump on my shit…. Remember… you can read, and write… and you have access to a computer.

Bah….. meat is murder… killing the land for crops is murder…. Taking bee’s honey is wrong… bah… fucking bah… fucking bah…… on and on and on.. what a fucking waste of time. No one is convinced in the end, yet our egos are stroked. Work on that “blulight” pecking order. If any one of you had spent half the time it took you to post looking up all of these past debates you would see how futile this argument is.


Show how smart you are… show everyone how wrong they are.

BAH!

Healthy living my ass.
 
/\ Agreed, G_G.

Privilege and stroked ego, and I have happily partaken.

Perhaps the best thing we can do is give thanks whenever we eat and consider the difficulties that had to be surmounted in order to get the food on our plate, i.e. reminding ourselves where it comes from. by that I don't just mean the local supermarket, I mean starting at the seed or the baby animal and following how they were grown/fed/tended/harvested/slaughtered/transported/etc. ... Giving thought to the food in all its states before we got access to it, to all the people involved in enabling us to purchase this food. and to remember why we eat in the first place. And to give thanks, again.
 
i agree with G_G ; we do have the luxury of choice.

and for that i am glad. but having the upper hand isnt just about being glad.. having the upper hand in any way puts one in a position of responsibility.

.. if we identify our freedom to choose our diet as a luxury in the first place, then we also recognize that there are indeed many people who have no choice and would be happy to have access to any food at all.

when i think about those people, i feel proud that i choose not to support the meat industry; in doing so i am choosing to not support the waste of crops, the destruction of once-fertile land, and the mistreatment of animals and underpaid factory farm workers. i mean, fuck, i realise i'm not any type of crusader, but i also realise that every effort makes an impact, and that if doing something as seemingly minute as changing my diet can help in some way, then i'm going to do it.

Gary Gnu said:
Nice to be on top eh? Nice to be able to choose what you eat. If “most” people could read this, I think they would laugh at the rich folk’s debate.
Click to expand...


OF COURSE THEY WOULD LAUGH AT THIS - because people in "the third world" have no time or means to think about animal rights when their basic HUMAN RIGHTS arent respected... their perspective is totally different than yours and mine, no doubt.

which is why it's a bit silly, in our positions of privilege and choice, to laugh off these issues as if we were part of the other group and dont need to give a shit.

we're not. we have the time, ability and privilege to care and debate about our health, animals' treatment, the environment -- to ignore it all completely is more indignant than to care, IMO. it may sound high and mighty, but not as high and mighty as taking your privileges for granted.

i might not be a saint and i might not be a charismatic motherfucker either, but at least i'm not the asshole who tosses the wrappers from his Big Macs out the window of his SUV on the road and says "not my problem".
 
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I'd laugh if we DIDN'T use our privilege to choose positively, consider the best for ourselves, and think about what we could use this responsibility for.

But it's nice to be on top and throw away your brain, eh Gary? Never take up philosophy, you'd go mad.

Now, are you going to put forth anything worthy of discussion or are you going to take a big dump on the thread and mock it all in a condescending fashion?

Seriously though, make a thread in T&A about how those who live in privilege wasting their time on considering topics like these if you're so interested in the subject.

Edit: Gary, I was joking at first about the philosophy comment, but I do think you could benefit from reading Hume. He tells us that people do not base their judgments on rationale, but rather soley through feeling.
 
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saturnine said:
OF COURSE THEY WOULD LAUGH AT THIS - because people in "the third world" have no time or means to think about animal rights when their basic HUMAN RIGHTS arent respected... their perspective is totally different than yours and mine, no doubt.
Click to expand...

I am from "the third world". Although I am not living in sustenance hell, I do know many people who are vegetarian and by no means wealthy. I know some people who are almost on the poverty line and still choose to be vegetarian.

It's such a HUGE misconception to associate vegetarianism with the "rich West". It does have its proponents in indigenous or local settings. It has among its ranks people who want to be healthy to avoid the cost of getting sick, who feel sorry for animals, who just feel better eating veggies, who see adverse environmental effects.... And remember, vegetables are cheaper than meat!

And I do think that if people have the "luxury" of choice, then not thinking about it, whatever your end decision is, is a great waste.
 
^^ i never once said that vegetarianism was exclusive to or originating from the West... nor did i say vegetarianism is for the wealthy only (though, here in the West it is more costly in general to be a vegetarian than to eat meat - ah, another twisted result of the industrailisation in America! ..and animal rights causes are mostly made up of upper middle class to upper-class people. you'd be surprised at the ignorance and level of moral neglect some westerners exhibit, considering their privilege.)

Gary Gnu said:
At least (what …say …85. percent ) of the world has little or no choice about what they eat in terms of meat or veggies. Eat or die. Yet, you/we/I argue about what we should or should not do in terms of diet. And then go as far as to say that it is "natural" or not....

Nice to be on top eh? Nice to be able to choose what you eat. If “most” people could read this, I think they would laugh at the rich folk’s debate.
Click to expand...


the portion of my post that you quoted, Dtergent, was written entirely in response to what Gary Gnu said; i wasn't the first one to bring up the "third world".. and i think you got a skewed perception of what exactly i meant.


Dtergent said:
It's such a HUGE misconception to associate vegetarianism with the "rich West". It does have its proponents in indigenous or local settings. It has among its ranks people who want to be healthy to avoid the cost of getting sick, who feel sorry for animals, who just feel better eating veggies, who see adverse environmental effects.... And remember, vegetables are cheaper than meat!
Click to expand...


anyway, thanks for clearning that up about how people all over the world are aware of these issues after all.. maybe Gary wasn't as right as he thought.
 
Ximot said:
Perhaps the best thing we can do is give thanks whenever we eat and consider the difficulties that had to be surmounted in order to get the food on our plate, i.e. reminding ourselves where it comes from. by that I don't just mean the local supermarket, I mean starting at the seed or the baby animal and following how they were grown/fed/tended/harvested/slaughtered/transported/etc. ... Giving thought to the food in all its states before we got access to it, to all the people involved in enabling us to purchase this food. and to remember why we eat in the first place. And to give thanks, again.
Click to expand...

Werd . Werd . and Werd.
 
Gary Gnu said:
Funny, if you veggies, vegans, meaties, etc. were not in a place of privilege, you wouldn't even have the opportunity to choose a life style or diet.

At least (what …say …85. percent ) of the world has little or no choice about what they eat in terms of meat or veggies. Eat or die. Yet, you/we/I argue about what we should or should not do in terms of diet. And then go as far as to say that it is "natural" or not....

Nice to be on top eh? Nice to be able to choose what you eat. If “most” people could read this, I think they would laugh at the rich folk’s debate.

Before you jump on my shit…. Remember… you can read, and write… and you have access to a computer.

Bah….. meat is murder… killing the land for crops is murder…. Taking bee’s honey is wrong… bah… fucking bah… fucking bah…… on and on and on.. what a fucking waste of time. No one is convinced in the end, yet our egos are stroked. Work on that “blulight” pecking order. If any one of you had spent half the time it took you to post looking up all of these past debates you would see how futile this argument is.


Show how smart you are… show everyone how wrong they are.

BAH!

Healthy living my ass.
Click to expand...

Priveledged? Hahaha. Im far from priveledged. I suppose everyone who lives in modern civilization is priveledged to some extent, since they arent starving on the streets in india or something, but what the hell does that have to do with what we are talking about here?

And I dont know what being vegetarian has anything to do with riches. I spend a LOT less now on groceries than I did before. A cube of my tofu costs me about two bucks and makes me about 4 meals. I used to spend about 10 bucks on some chicken breasts that would cover about two meals.

And its not an argument. Its a discussion.
 
m far from priveledged
Click to expand...

I doubt very much that you have any idea how lucky you are in contrast to most of the world.

Sorry kiddies.. didn't mean to stear things off base. Carry on with your debate... carry on...

I do think you could benefit from reading Hume.
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. Been there and done that, but decided to get my degree in anthroplogy. I was more intrested in what scenice had to say about what it is to be human.
 
Gary Gnu said:
I doubt very much that you have any idea how lucky you are in contrast to most of the world.
Click to expand...
How does that relate to anything?

headscratch.gif
 
Remembering why we eat may help us understand we do not do so for pleasure or for beautification or whatever, but merely for (optimum) survival. Sadly, we have food in abundance at our disposal, and many of us eat too much of it, and many of the wrong things. The average Western diet lacks healthy fatty acids, for instance, and there are just too mamy processed foods in what many of us eat. So while we are privileged in that we have a choice, we do not always use this option wisely. Sure, we can choose organic this and organic that, and we can also choose to avoid certain foods we deem unhealthy and splash out on others that we believe are better and that cost us more. In reality, however, many people use their privilege of choice to go spend lots of money on all sorts of unbeneficial designer foods - ready meals packed full of hydrogenated fats and preservatives and what have you, yummy biscuits and chocolate bars with amazing artificial flavours, burgers, fried, white bread/pasta/rice... the dodgiest ready sauces.... etc. etc... actually, among the underprivileged of this world, many of those who actualyl do have enough to eat live healthier lives than we do.... at least those who stick to their traditional credo that says "let food be your medicine."

Even though I do believe our soils are often mineral-depleted and the crops comeing from the soils polluted to some extent, I have no doubt I would require fewer supplements if I didn't indulge my chocolate cravings so often and if I didn't smoke and drink so much alcohol.....
 
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Gary Gnu said:
Show how smart you are… show everyone how wrong they are.

BAH!

Healthy living my ass.
Click to expand...

Seriously, are you kidding? While a lot of people have been trying to discuss the health aspects of vegetarianism in this thread most of your posts in here haven't had to do with health as much as flaunting intellectual prowess. You didn't even seem to *read* my posts which were showing that someone's reasoning for why vegetarianism is unhealthy (or meat eating is healthy) was flawed but latched onto one minor (to the issue discussed) anthropological piece of evidence in order to start an intellectual pissing contest, citations and all.

Next you start bitching about privilege and the third world in an again off topic argument that, if sound, you may as well launch against the existence of the whole fucking forum. Then, when someone actually from a third world country points out that you're wrong – even "unprivileged" have concerns about vegetarianism you ignore it completely and conveniently avoid a deflation of ego.

If there's anything laughable here its reading your pretentious bitching in a post that is a paradigm of what you're criticizing in this thread.

Some of us actually are interested in learning and sharing knowledge about the health aspect of vegetarianism compared to meat eating.
 
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torigori said:
Anthropology is not just bones and tools. You display your ignorance with this simple statement. In fact, anthropology is aimed at examining the "complexity of the human condition" in a number of different ways. We do look at archeaology, which is prehistoric culture, but also at biology, linguistics, and society/culture. It's the holistic view of human life across time.

There is so much more to anthropology than bones and tools and i really resent you mocking a subject you know nothing about.
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maybe it's not a display of a lack of knowledge.

maybe it's just an oversimplified, saracstic post that somebody totally recieved the wrong way... you *cough*

in my personal opinion, humanities is a more revealing subject, anyway.

i really resent your uptightness and intolerance. :p

where's your love for humanity, oh down-nose-lookers?
 
saturnine said:
i really resent your uptightness and intolerance. :p

where's your love for humanity, oh down-nose-lookers?
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You look down your nose at anthropology. You should expect someone to put you in your place.

Can I close this thread yet?
 
How does this relate to anything?
Click to expand...
+1

Someone surgically transplant the deteriorating part of this thread to a better suited forum.. T&A maybe? Everyone can then feel free to bitch about others' judgmental natures!

Can I close this thread yet?
Click to expand...

Will that really solve anything? Please urge people to get back on topic or start a new thread in the right forum. Pretty please?

i really resent your uptightness and intolerance.
Click to expand...

That one goes for everyone off topic.. but thank you for being honest here

So.. does anyone have anything to say regarding the health concerns of a vegetarian diet vs. a non-veggie????????!!!!
 
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