Vegas Mandalay Bay mass shooting / Gun Control 2017 Thread

[Jabberwocky]

he's not being ridiculed. he's being asked to support his claims.

if he feels he's being ridiculed, i'd invite him to change the tone by stopping ridiculing others as closed-minded and sheep?

I agree by the way that motiv311 should do more to support his claims, but figuring out what's going is half the fun of following a news story. Fine, I'll withdraw the word ridiculed and replace with lectured the way you would a little child. Motiv311's comment about being closed-minded and sheep wasn't directed at anyone in particular. As a general statement I agree with it. so why take it personally?

 

[motiv311]

Thanks man^ I'm just tying to get people excited / outraged about this the way I am. Sure there is a lot of BS in the "fringe media" but once you get passed that and find some legitimate information it can really open doors in your head.

I would like to think more bluelighters understand the history of our country, the truth about who has the money, how the federal reserve came to be, who owns it, why they do things like this attack etc....

But in general most drug users tend to be left wing liberals (which is kind of the path they have designed for you) and I am more libertarian, I.e smaller government, less rules, more freedom.

Society has made it fashionable to just follow social justice warriors and become a politically correct drone who Never questions anything, doesn't vote, doesn't love America or the constitution.

I just care about you guys and wish you could come around to see things my way. Go check out Zeitgeist if you haven't seen that,(the one about the fed) if you can understand how fucked up the federal reserve is you can understand false flag attacks.

At the very least you gotta admit there are some funky things about this Las Vegas nonsense, including the fact people have vouched for the character of Stephen Paddock as he does not fit this profile at all

 

[spacejunk]

I agree by the way that motiv311 should do more to support his claims, but figuring out what's going is half the fun of following a news story

I think the obvious glee people have when speculating on these things is part of the reason i find it misguided and ghoulish.

 

[Scrofula]

The problem is when it promotes poor reasoning and attacks on innocent people. The harassment of Sandy Hook parents comes to mind.

There's healthy skepticism, and then there's straining to find explanations for things that never needed explaining. The mentality that there's an "official" narrative, and that it's always wrong, leads to absurdities like preventing your children from getting vaccinated. It makes people refuse to accept the opinions of trained personnel, at risk of their own, and society's, health and safety. In this case it would only dampen any attempts at gun control reform.

Beyond that there's the personal damage to reason that comes with assuming your confirmation bias is an "open mind", and therefore immune to criticism. You could start your dismissal of this conspiracy by realizing you're asking Las Vegas Police Department SWAT, all of them, to be working with the media. About guns. To promote a story that's very pro-gun control. A story with thousands of witnesses. And in furtherance of what? This story doesn't require anything further than what we have already. Do you not think that even I could take out 58 people in 9 minutes from a great height shooting into a crowd? What we know doesn't come from any major government agency; the first reports were all from witnesses, victims and first responders, the "official narrative" just like always.

If nothing else, leaping to say it must be FBI or Illuminati might distract you to some other involvement. FFS, maybe it really was aliens and you miss it from straining to pin it on the federal government. An "open mind" wouldn't do that.

ETA: I know some people simply enjoy trying to work that angle with any major story. I know that the missing Malaysia plane can be found off the coast of South Africa, where it was transported back in time as part of an Israeli/South African collaboration on nuclear weapons. I can even dig up satellite footage.

But when the accusations fall on people the credulous can reach, it becomes irresponsible to promote that stuff.

 

[cduggles]

https://youtu.be/auzNPt2HSwg

What is youtu.be?
Is it similar to youtube.com?
I don't like to click on links from unknown sites.
Please provide more information.

 

[alasdairm]

Motiv311's comment about being closed-minded and sheep wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

of course it was! his comments were aimed directly at me.

...replace with lectured the way you would a little child.

i don't think so. and i think when you choose to characterize it like that you're embellishing and playing the victim.

here are a couple of the responses to motiv311's original post:

there's a lot of shaky cam and shouting in this. can you help us understand what we're supposed to be looking for and at which times? thanks.

what's the exact timecode in the video and i'll check it out.

to any reasonable observer, he's not being lectured like a little child.

alasdair

 

[cj]

According to conspiracy theorist every single mass shooting is a false flag attack.

 

[Fresco]

According to conspiracy theorist every single mass shooting is a false flag attack

Oh noes.

Now what??

 

[cj]

Oh noes.

Now what??

I'm merely pointing out that there is either a huge world shattering conspiracy or they are spinning bullshit.

 

[spacejunk]

Oh noes.

Now what??

It's pretty depressing how little some people seem to care about dozens of innocent people getting slayed by some coward in a las vegas hotel room.
I mean, is this what passes for debate nowadays?

It's weird, i kinda miss the old days when most people were just apathetic.
Apathy is a lot less toxic than the bizarre bandwagons some folks are eager to jump on nowadays.

 

[motiv311]

No not every mass shooting but at least a few.... sandy hook and Las Vegas I would bet a lot on the truth being they were ..... they both stink to high heavens if you take the time to go through them.... you have to ask yourself , what could people gain by carrying these out?

I just saw a clip showing how NBC edited a clip to make it appear A certain way, why would they do this?


https://youtu.be/k8B366HiHPs

One thing I've noticed is in every clip of the shooting people are remarking "its fake ". .... "it's not a real gun" "people are so calm " etc etc...... I know people appear to have really died but you can't find any clip of someone actually being shot..... and considering the amount of footage , the sheer amount of gunfire and the fact 58 people died ; you'd think someone would capture a person being hit by a bullet or obviously injured.... YouTube took down the video showing the dead bodies because they looked so fake it was obvious...... if you check out "crisis actors and Las Vegas" you see some interesting footage that seems clearly fake

 

[Fresco]

It's pretty depressing how little some people seem to care about dozens of innocent people getting slayed by some coward in a las vegas hotel room.
I mean, is this what passes for debate nowadays?

It's weird, i kinda miss the old days when most people were just apathetic.
Apathy is a lot less toxic than the bizarre bandwagons some folks are eager to jump on nowadays

The worst one for me was the Sandy Hook character actor conspiracy theory.

How people can dream this shit up is beyond me

 

[Scrofula]

they both stink to high heavens if you take the time to go through them.... you have to ask yourself , what could people gain by carrying these out?

One thing I've noticed is in every clip of the shooting people are remarking "its fake ". .... "it's not a real gun" "people are so calm " etc etc...... I know people appear to have really died but you can't find any clip of someone actually being shot.....

In what way do they stink? Other than with the blood of innocents, I mean. There isn't really anything to go through, or take time with.

What does the government have to gain carrying these out?

One thing I've noticed is how many people don't recognize gunfire for what it is when it's not in Dolby surround sound (helps to live in a shitty neighborhood). Hearing firecrackers in Las Vegas wouldn't get you excited; paid crisis actors, though, you'd expect to act as though a casting director was watching.

And why you can't find a clip of people being shot? The same reason no one's released Sandy Hook images of dead first graders: some people still have decency. I'm also pretty sure that: a) it's against Youtube and network TV policy b) would you keep filming in that situation? c) any concert video would have been taken as evidence.

So far nothing stinks to me.

 

[swilow]

What does the government have to gain carrying these out?

Its obvious dude. Bring in gun control, because that is what everyone wants after a mass shooting, its not like anybody suddenly stocks upon on weaponry after these events- disarm the population therefore suppressing violent revolution or an uprising, after which Jesus will return as the head of the New World Order/One World Government run by reptiles. I think you see that it is clear that the FBI are playing the Long Game here.

I know people appear to have really died but you can't find any clip of someone actually being shot..... and considering the amount of footage , the sheer amount of gunfire and the fact 58 people died ; you'd think someone would capture a person being hit by a bullet or obviously injured

During a massacre most people are worried about getting, you know, killed. Filming such events would be a low priority to start with.The fact that there are not any clips online of people being hit by bullets does not mean that footage does not exist. The majority of people don't post their personal videos online.

I just saw a clip showing how NBC edited a clip to make it appear A certain way, why would they do this?

Um, because they are a public broadcaster who would edit every single piece of content they air? You are seeing a mystery in things that really are not mysterious.

Personally, I would much rather you stopped going on about this. I think we have been tolerant to you, but I would appreciate if you would stick to the facts and not the opinions of some fringe LiveLeakers. Thanks.

 

[motiv311]

Ok boss , it's not like it's a public forum where people discuss topics , controversial or otherwise.
I will cease the discussion as it appears to not be fun for anyone else besides me, but not because you told me too. There's not much freedom on these boards anymore. I'll cruise over to 4chan

 

[spacejunk]

Dude, it has nothing to do with freedom, everything to do with decency.

If you want a topic to have "fun" with, this isn't it.

A lot of us are horrified by this incident. It's not something i find tasteful to joke about, and i assume swilow feels the same.
If you're going to use the lack of publicly available videos of people being shot in this massacre (seriously, wtf?) as evidence that this was some kind of hoax, you're going to get some impolite responses - because it's not only silly bullshit, it's incredibly ghoulish and voyeuristic.

Like a lot of people find this obsessive close-reading of every bit of media reportage after a massacre - looking for "inconsistencies" - more than a bit sick.
You can't build a reality from what you see (or don't see) on your computer screen - and when it inevitably turns to claims that this was staged, and nobody really died - you're getting into the realm of fantasy. That's all well and good, until you consider the effect this can have on the (many thousands) of lives affected by this atrocity.

You can't deny that mourning families and friends haven'y been hurt by this shit before. They have, and they will continue to, as people continue to repeat this sort of stuff all over the internet. It's very disrespectful to claim that the victims of this aren't real.

Now, the moderator's job is to insure that debate is kept within the user ageement and forum guidelines.

When you post inflammatory, unvarifiable claims about this being a hoax - i'm sorry to say it, but you're going to get flamed - especially if you keep going with it after being respectfully rebutted.
So, in the interests of keeping it civil, maybe you should keep that stuff on 4chan where it belongs, and try to stick to more sincere and respectful discussion here?

 

[Scrofula]

If you're just having fun, you should send a card to the Sandy Hook parents and the Comet Pizza place.

 

[motiv311]

Some people would say that the best way to honor their deaths would be thoroughly vetting the facts and getting to the bottom of it. When I said "fun" I didn't mean literal fun, more like interest and intrigue, scholarly passion.

I consider myself a patriot because I attempt to weed out tyranny in all its forms foreign and domestic. Are you even American? I know you are liberal because you and I tend to disagree on almost everything which is fine for me. It just sucks when people get all P.C. And whiny as if they have been personally offended by a perfectly harmless discussion. What's the point of a message board if not debate, discussion, dialogue?

Bluelight has always had too many moderators, which obviously are here to make sure the spirit of the boards are not comprised by dumbasses attempting to pedal, source, trade substances. Beyond that I could care less for the attitude of most moderators. They love to wield their power on a whim over the smallest issues that have nothing to do with actual violations. It's actually hilarious as it's a perfect reflection of what I am trying to illustrate in the larger world. Personal liberty and free speech rights mean little in today's authoritarian climate.

You would think that American drug users would be more libertarian or prone to anarchy, limited government; cause we just want the freedom to use our drugs in privacy without being considered criminals. Yet I find the majority of bluelighters are quite liberal, and intolerant of other ideas or political opinions. Its funny that ANtifa is anti fascist while being fascist themselves even cruel at times. You would think BL the ideal place for discussion of controversial and normally difficult topics. To me a forum provides an ideal format for free expression and the tackling of sensitive or taboo issues. It's a safe place for people to debate and disagree and still respect each other in the end. It's not my job to keep you from getting your feelings hurt. Trigger warning are laughable on a site like this, with the glamorized drug use and tales of weeklong binges, which I am totally cool with, btw..... its not a safe space as found in the classroom... chances are your feelings will get hurt at some point, disagreements can get heated, but better for that heat to take place online than in person on the street where the chance of violence is high. I'm for limited government and free speech especially on bluelight, people can work out their differences without being directed and told how to behave and what to say. If I am being annoying or long winded I'd rather have bluelighters respectfully disagree and just ask me to shut up than threatened by a moderator just "because" .... the rules are very artibitrary and are applied differently to people who have different opinions, if you have an valid opinion but you also voted for trump, you can expect the mods to throw you under the bus ? or ban you over a small infraction. I'm not here to win social points or win a ribbon in the most popular junky competition. I'm here to discuss and delve into compelling, difficult and controversial ideas. To be a thought provoking devils advocate just to keep you on your toes. Seek truth and surrender when someone has bested me using rationality and logic. The Socratic circle is an old tradition frequently used in the classroom today, I see bluelighters as students of the universe exploring consciousness together, sharing knowledge and secrets of dark potions and mind expanding chemical agents. Freedom is essential for the community to thrive, and knowledge be shared. Just randomly enforcing rules on someone cause you dont like what they believe is the worst thing That could happen to bluelight.

 

[swilow]

All I asked is for you to stick to the facts, I'm not trying to "wield power" or threaten freedom or whatever. Calm down.

 

[spacejunk]

I consider myself a patriot because I attempt to weed out tyranny in all its forms foreign and domestic. Are you even American? I know you are liberal because you and I tend to disagree on almost everything which is fine for me. It just sucks when people get all P.C. And whiny as if they have been personally offended by a perfectly harmless discussion. What's the point of a message board if not debate, discussion, dialogue?

I'm not "even" american, and not a liberal either, thanks.

If you can't see why the line of debate you're heading down here is problematic, i'm not sure what else to say to you.

Nobody is threatening you - we are politely asking you to stick to reasonable lines of debate, rather than complain about the lack of snuff films to have come out of this tragedy.

As for your thoughts about bluelight's moderation - thanks for the feedback.

We are first and foremost a harm reduction forum, which is why respectful debate is taken seriously.
You've simply been asked to stick to respectful debate - it has nothing to do with your politics.

If you observe that trump supporters get banned more than non-trump supporters (perhaps you're right - i don't know), it may have nothing to do with the fact that they're trump supporters, but everything to do with those individuals engaging in disrespectful debate which breaks the forum guidelines and/or BL user agreement.

All decisions moderators on this forum make are subject to scrutiny and oversight from other staff members.
Nobody is randomly enforcing rules, and if they were - they wouldn't last very long as a moderator.
Contrary to your claims, rules are not arbitrarily enforced, we have a dedicated staff of volunteers that all work together as a team to maintain the standards and integrity of this amazing community.

As for the rest of your rant - there are a lot of assumptions and stereotypes there that i'm not going to argue with. If you post on bluelight, you are subject to our rules - end of story.

I am subject to them, as is everybody else here.

Bluelight exists to reduce drug-related harm, without judgement or prejudice. In that sense, it is the very essence of a "safe space", and that's how it will remain.