• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Vegas Mandalay Bay mass shooting / Gun Control 2017 Thread

Fuck that shit. You can't "hear" that its belt fed based on a recording like that. And semi autos especially with bump firing like he had can't be easily told apart from Automatic.

Why am I arguing this? It's retarded.

Spacejunk, it is ghoulish, it's sick. And this, my whole issue with threads like these, that's the way it is for me. Sure, it's nowhere near as bad, but that feeling you have for conspiracy theorists doing this shit, you're absolutely right, a lesser version of that is at the heart of my objection to discussing gun control on these kinds of threads when shit like this happens.

I'm not even going to get started on my thoughts on the conspiracy theorist side of it. I think sandy hook exhausted the last of my patience for it. The worst part is I know and am close friends with a lot of conspiracy theorists. I just beg them not to talk about it around me.
 
So tell us then, how would you prevent these types of shootings??

as ever the onion nails it: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

how about we start with a national permit to purchase requirement: How This Piece of Paper Fights Gun Crimes and Saves Lives ?

my posts earlier in this thread demonstrate that this is perfectly constitutional and is supported by u.s. citizens generally and by gun-owning u.s. citizens.

missouri, in 2007 repealed a state ptp law which was associated with a 14 percent increase in the murder rate and an increase of 16 percent in the firearm-related suicide rate. studies of connecticut's ptp 1995 law found that it was associated with a 40 percent reduction in the state’s firearm homicide rate and a 15 percent reduction in firearm suicides.

coincidentally, and relevant to nuttynutskin's comments about timothy mcveigh, there was no 'substitution effect' under the ptp laws in either missouri or connecticut i.e. criminals did not switch to other weapons when they weren't able to get guns.

how about we forbid anybody convicted of a violent crime from obtaining a gun. anybody with a restraining order against them?

after the passage of the 2005 plcaa (protection of lawful commerce in arms act) there's absolutely no incentive for gun manufacturers to do anything to help. how about we repeal that?

how about we hold gun sellers more responsible?

tedtalks said:
A small percentage of gun dealers are major conduits for guns getting to criminals. A single gun dealer can divert thousands of guns to criminals and go years before facing consequences.

Whether a gun dealer allows illegal straw purchases, colludes with gun traffickers, or fails to secure his guns depends on whether our policies hold them accountable.

Here’s a perfect example. In 1999, the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms – the ATF – published a report identifying the gun stores that had sold the most guns that were later connected to crime. At the top of the list – the nation’s leading seller of crime guns – was a gun shop near Milwaukee, Badger Guns & Ammo.

Within days of ATF’s releasing the data, Badger’s owners announced that they would voluntarily take measures to prevent their guns from being used in crime.

What happened next was amazing. The rate at which new guns were diverted to criminals after being sold by Badger immediately dropped 77%.

But in 2003, Congress passed a new law to protect gun dealers like Badger and prohibit the ATF from publishing or sharing data connecting crime guns to the gun dealers who had sold them.

If the owners of Badger Guns & Ammo were polite, they sent a thank you note to Congress. The rate at which their new gun sales were going to criminals immediately shot up 200% immediately after the law. By 2005, Badger was back on top as the nation’s #1 seller of guns used in crimes.
(source)

so how about we publicize that data again?

from that same ted talk:

tedtalks said:
And secondly, we should require business practices that prevent guns from getting to criminals like security cameras, electronic records for inventory and sales –practices used in nearly every retail establishment, but not in some of the shady gun shops.

Dealers should also be required to keep computer records to flag a gun purchaser if he previously bought guns that were later used in crimes. Anti-theft measures would reduce risk even more.

These modest changes can have a powerful impact. When New York City sued gun dealers caught making illegal sales, the dealers signed agreements to implement these same safe sales practices.

The results were remarkable! The probability that the guns the dealers sold would end up being recovered from criminals in New York dropped by 82%.

and finally, for now, universal background checks and record-keeping.

a lot of people seem to just shrug, point to the 2nd amendment and say it sucks but there's nothing we can do. there are thousands of things we can do to address the problem. sure, most of the things i've described here would not have prevented the vegas shooting but the pro-gun people here and elsewhere say it's not guns that are the problem it's people and culture. well, there's a lot we can do to address the pervasiveness of gun culture, make it much, much harder for criminals to get guns and to reduce gun violence generally.

alasdair
 
put on headphones, there is automatic gunfire (which sounds like a military belt fed style MG machine gun) right over the taxi cab, then a few seconds later you hear a completely different machine gun off in the distance presumably firing on the same crowd, it is not an echo, it is very much another shooter... A "security guard" suspiciously runs by ... (rumours on the internet report that armed men wearing "security" jackets / uniforms carried out the attacks and framed Praddock) also the muzzle flash coming out the 10th floor in conjunction with the machine gun sound, seems to genuine muzzle flash.
 
Yep, I’d say this threads gone too far for me now. Honestly no offense meant to anyone else who keeps posting in it, it’s just that it’s bad for my mental health so I’m gonna stop checking it.
 
put on headphones, there is automatic gunfire (which sounds like a military belt fed style MG machine gun) right over the taxi cab, then a few seconds later you hear a completely different machine gun off in the distance presumably firing on the same crowd, it is not an echo...
it sounds exactly like an echo. the pattern is the same.

alasdair
 
Nah I'd listen again.... like 2 mins after the initial shooting, you hear automatic fire start up again in the distance and then close automatic fire resumes
 
What about a ban on assault rifles, automatic weapons or weapons over a certain calibre?

Maybe only allow one firearm per person like 1 x 9mm after an extensive psychological assessment that is to be done every 12 months and if the person fails to do said test the firearm and licence is taken away?

That's stupid. Once again, citizens CAN'T OWN automatic weapons. An AR-15 is only 22 caliber. As you can see the 300 Winchester used in hunting rifles is about 5 times as big. And as far as limiting people to one gun, that is just asinine. People might use different guns for different things and it's would be an infringement on our rights.

Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg


how about we forbid anybody convicted of a violent crime from obtaining a gun. anybody with a restraining order against them?

Felons can't own guns legally.
 
Last edited:
NRA Backs New Regulations on Rapid-Fire Gun ‘Bump Stocks’

by Alex Seitz-Wald

WASHINGTON — In its first public statement since the deadliest shooting in modern American history, the National Rifle Association on Thursday called for new regulations on bump stocks that rapidly accelerate a weapons' rate of fire.

"The National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law," the NRA's CEO, Wayne LaPierre, and its chief lobbyist, Chris Cox, said in a statement.

"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," the statement continued.

It was an unusual and potentially game-changing move for an organization that has made a habit of opposing any and all new restrictions on gun rights, and one likely to increase momentum on Capitol Hill for legislative action to crack down on bump stocks, especially among Republicans.

At the White House shortly after the NRA issued its statement, Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said that President Donald Trump is aware that Congress wants to take a look at bump stocks.

"We’d like to be a part of that conversation," she said. "We’re open to that moving forward."

A dozen bump stocks were found in the shooter's hotel room after Sunday's massacre in Las Vegas, leading some top Republicans who are generally hostile to gun restrictions to call for congressional action on the devices.

Moderate Republican Rep. Carlos Curbelo of Florida announced Thursday that he's working on a bipartisan bill to ban bump stocks with Democratic Rep. Seth Moulton of Massachussets, a rising star in his party.

“For the first time in decades, there is growing bipartisan consensus for firearm reform, a polarizing issue that has deeply divided Republicans and Democrats,” Curbelo said in a statement.

And a number of other key GOP lawmakers, including the House Judiciary Committee chairman, Bob Goodlatte of Virginia, are also looking into the issue.

Still, the carefully worded NRA statement stops short of calling for legislation, instead endorsing new federal regulations through the ATF and blaming the Obama administration for approving the sale of bump stocks in the first place.

The ATF has already concluded bump stocks do not violate current law.

"Bump fire stocks, while simulating automatic fire, do not actually alter the firearm to fire automatically, making them legal under current federal law," ATF Special Agent in Charge Jill Snyder told reporters in Las Vegas on Tuesday.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a leading gun control advocate, the ATF can't act on its own.

"The ATF in 2010 made clear that it did not have the authority to regulate bump stocks under the Gun Control Act or National Firearms Act. Federal regulations won’t be able to fully close this loophole,” she said in a statement following the NRA’s announcement.

The NRA statement also criticized some lawmakers for pushing for gun control in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.

"Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks," LaPierre and Cox said.

And they used the statement to reiterate their desire that Congress pass a bill to make concealed carry weapons permits valid across state lines.

Meanwhile, Americans for Responsible Solutions, the gun safety group run by former Democratic Rep. Gabby Giffords, is working on a separate framework with the goal of attracting bipartisan support.

Unlike bills already introduced by Democrats in the House and Senate that would criminalize the possession of bump stocks, the proposal would regulate existing devices by making them subject to the same strict law that covers machine guns and would ban their future manufacture.

"This really balances what we’re trying to do in the name of public safety while recognizing the political reality that we’re in," said Rob Lloyd, the director of government affairs at Americans for Responsible Solutions.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/l...egulations-rapid-fire-gun-bump-stocks-n808121
 
More...

Vegas Shooter’s Girlfriend Says He Would Lie in Bed Moaning, Screaming

by Julia Ainsley and Ken Dilanian

WASHINGTON — Marilou Danley, the woman investigators hoped would provide key details into the motive behind her boyfriend's deadly shooting attack, said she remembers him exhibiting symptoms such as lying in bed and moaning, according to two former FBI officials who have been briefed on the matter.

Marilou Danley, girlfriend of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock, says he would lie in bed moaning and screaming, "Oh my god," according to two former FBI officials. Courtesy of family

"She said he would lie in bed, just moaning and screaming, 'Oh my God,'" one of the former officials said.

The other former official said Danley spoke about Paddock displaying "mental health symptoms."

Investigators believe Stephen Paddock, who claimed nearly 60 lives and injured hundreds more in Las Vegas on Sunday, may have been in physical or mental anguish, the sources said.

But so far the FBI has not identified a clear motive, said two FBI officials. And they do not believe Paddock's mental health had deteriorated to a point that would have triggered him to commit such an act.

Other lines of inquiry the FBI and Las Vegas police are investigating include what Paddock did in the hour between shooting a security guard and his room being breached by officers. Paddock was found dead after a SWAT team breached his door, but it is unclear when he took his own life.

Investigators are also examining approximately six media devices left behind by Paddock, one of the former officials said. Included in that search is an inquiry into Paddock's web browsing history. Multiple law enforcement officials told NBC News that Paddock researched other attack locations in Boston and Chicago.

Danley's lawyer did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/l...lfriend-says-he-would-lie-bed-moaning-n808156

Sounds like mental illness or a brain abnormality may have indeed played a part.
 
Last edited:
That's stupid. Once again, citizens CAN'T OWN automatic weapons. An AR-15 is only 22 caliber.

Well, like they say, it's not the size of your NATO .223 bullet, it's also the size of your cartridge. Right? So you're being a bit disingenuous using caliber here. Maybe I can't easily buy a legal automatic weapon, but I can stock my entire block with civilian versions of the M16, that don't take much to adapt. I agree that the AR-15 is more bogeyman than true monster, but it's taken more than a few lives, and doesn't do anything as well as a more specific weapon. It is scary-looking and commands a mark-up, that's why people love/hate it, and the industry is happy to churn them out.



And as far as limiting people to one gun, that is just asinine. People might use different guns for different things and it's would be an infringement on our rights.

Why is it asinine? But ok, you get one handgun per household for home defense in the cities and suburbs, with a rifle or shotgun depending on what you hunt. Maybe even both. Rural people get a shotgun for opening cans and getting varmints out of their cabbage patches.


Felons can't own guns legally.

And yet no one comes to retrieve them after they've been arrested, and no one would stop them if we didn't have what little gun control we already have in place, which Mr. Fresco supports.

And, where'd they get those guns anyway? From someone who got them shadily but legally--see the post above about the gun-shop outside Milwaukee that single-handedly supported crime across the city. Plenty of ways to investigate and close those loopholes and work-arounds.
 
A friend of mine has fully automatic silenced versions of every type of rifle and sub machine gun totally legal class 3 permit .... I've shot them all, they are amazing
 
That's stupid. Once again, citizens CAN'T OWN automatic weapons. An AR-15 is only 22 caliber. As you can see the 300 Winchester used in hunting rifles is about 5 times as big. And as far as limiting people to one gun, that is just asinine. People might use different guns for different things and it's would be an infringement on our rights.

Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg




Felons can't own guns legally
Your post is spot on except for the AR-15 being a .22.
An AR-15 can come in many different calibres (like .300 or 44 magnum)
 
Correct the nato 5.56/.223 being the most common. AAC .300 Blackout is another popular load.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already about a possible motive but could it be he just wanted to out do his father and become the FBI's most wanted. I know this is really thin but yesterday when I heard that they thought he actually had an escape plan it made me think. If he did want to live everybody would know it was him since he was too well known in Vegas, not to mention all the physical evidence.
 
Last edited:
as ever the onion nails it: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

how about we start with a national permit to purchase requirement: How This Piece of Paper Fights Gun Crimes and Saves Lives ?

my posts earlier in this thread demonstrate that this is perfectly constitutional and is supported by u.s. citizens generally and by gun-owning u.s. citizens.

missouri, in 2007 repealed a state ptp law which was associated with a 14 percent increase in the murder rate and an increase of 16 percent in the firearm-related suicide rate. studies of connecticut's ptp 1995 law found that it was associated with a 40 percent reduction in the state’s firearm homicide rate and a 15 percent reduction in firearm suicides.

coincidentally, and relevant to nuttynutskin's comments about timothy mcveigh, there was no 'substitution effect' under the ptp laws in either missouri or connecticut i.e. criminals did not switch to other weapons when they weren't able to get guns.

how about we forbid anybody convicted of a violent crime from obtaining a gun. anybody with a restraining order against them?

after the passage of the 2005 plcaa (protection of lawful commerce in arms act) there's absolutely no incentive for gun manufacturers to do anything to help. how about we repeal that?

how about we hold gun sellers more responsible?

(source)

so how about we publicize that data again?

from that same ted talk:



and finally, for now, universal background checks and record-keeping.

a lot of people seem to just shrug, point to the 2nd amendment and say it sucks but there's nothing we can do. there are thousands of things we can do to address the problem. sure, most of the things i've described here would not have prevented the vegas shooting but the pro-gun people here and elsewhere say it's not guns that are the problem it's people and culture. well, there's a lot we can do to address the pervasiveness of gun culture, make it much, much harder for criminals to get guns and to reduce gun violence generally.

alasdair
Sure, you can enact more legislation but its never going to stop someone if they're truly motivated to go on a killing spree.

The only way to prevent these shootings is to have a round-up of all firearms in America and then make guns illegal for everyone (like they did in Australia). And even then criminals will be the only citizens armed because they're not going to give up their guns. So what you wind up with is an even worse situation because law-abiding citizens cant defend themselves anymore
 
So what you wind up with is an even worse situation because law-abiding citizens cant defend themselves anymore
help me understand how the law-abiding citizens in vegas with guns - nevada is a permissive open-carry state - defended themselves against this attack? the u.s. is surely the only place in the world where people seriously argue that the answer to the extremely troubling ill of gun violence has to be more guns :\

australia enacted massive gun reform starting with the buy-back after port arthur. it didn't lead to a terrifying society where only outlaws have guns. firearm-related homicides dropped by over 40%. firearm-related suicides dropped by over 60%. and australia hasn't had a gun massacre (>4 people shot dead in a single incident) in 21 years.

gun control changes culture.

the results speak for themselves.

again: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

alasdair
 
Top