• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Valium to Phenobarbital Crossover

J

janedoe0202

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
5
heres my history

nov 17th 2011 4.0 mg xanax since Nov 2009 2 yrs gradual use.
cut to 3.5 x with 10 mg v (ashton manual)
every two weeks since or so ive cut by .25 or .5
2/25/12 at 1.25 mg x w/ 30 mg v
2/26/12 NO MORE XANAX @ 45 MG PER DAY OF V!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4/8 holding 40mg v...making a cut hopefully to 35 in two weeks
4/20 no weed smokin lol down to 35 mg v, Doctors tomorrow
4/21 *Benzo Free* on high amounts of Phenobarbital (90 MG) to make sure I dont have seziures, trying to check into a rehab.

My questions are, how long am I in risk for seziures from cutting out the valium? How often should I make reductions from the Phenobarb? Is the doseage of Phenobarb given to me too high? I understand that Valium has a very long half life, as of today, being off benzos completley and just the Phenobarb, I feel VERY tired...I slept a whole ten hours...Im beginning to think maybe the doseage is too high? I dont wanna play chess with this though and make stupid decisions that lead me back to Valium...Any info appreciated!

Jane


oh and how much pheno is usually perscribed at 30-35 mg valium?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi there, welcome to BL and BDD :)

I've merged your two posts together - there's an edit buttom on the bottom right under your post, we encourage people to do that instead of making another post right underneath :)

Congratulations on weaning yourself off Xanax, and I'm really pleased to see that you are aware of the risks involved in stopping benzos abruptly.

I don't have any experience in using phenobarbital to prevent seizures when stopping benzos, and I don't want to give you incorrect advice about something where there are potential serious risks, but the dose used for epilepsy is anywhere between 50mg and 600mg (usual range 100-300mg in divided doses throughout the day) so 90mg isn't excessively high..

Diazepam does indeed have a long half life, up to 100 hours. It varies from person to person as diazepam has a number of active metabolites and metabolism varies between individuals. The time period between your last dose and when your risk of seizures is back to normal varies and is longer for diazepam than it is for Xanax due to the half life. I don't know how long you should take the phenobarbital for or what a sensible taper would be I'm afraid, and I wouldn't like to make a guess over something as important as this.

I have to ask, why are you not tapering down the diazepam instead of switching to a drug that has greater associated risks, and one you know less about? The Ashton Manuel gives you a schedule for a diazepam taper, but it is harder to find info on using phenobarbital after discontinuation.. I would have thought it would make more sense either to taper from the diaz using the Ashton Manuel or keep yourself on a stable dose of diazepam until you can have a medically supervised taper?

Messing about with phenobarbital can be dangerous, as can stopping diazepam, so this makes me feel pretty unease.. stay safe <3
 
how is there greater associated risks w/ pheno?

and thanks for the warm welcome...

I have to find a sober living home/non medical detox center and they drug test you. Valium wont cut it for them...I stopped at about 30 mgs of valium, after taking it for about 5 months...i just said enoughs enough. I just want off the benzos. I went from 1.50 to 0 xanax in one day comfortably to 45 mg valium and felt fine?...now i cut 5mgs of valium every week comfortably till i got down to 30 all within 2.5 weeks...idk i dont wanna get hit but the sxs are tolorable. I hear nightmare stories but maybe ive got my age on my side idk i just dont feel all these crazy w/d sxs everyone else feels. I just wanna get off the Pheno as quick as I may need to. My doctor isnt the smartest of the bunch.

Is pheno stronger than valium or something? u said there are greater associated risks...Im confused lol
 
I'm not familiar with the actual prescribing guidelines for pheno substitution/tapering, but 90mg sounds a bit low to me. If it's working though, continue to take it as prescribed.

Barbiturates carry more risks than benzodiazepines, but you are under the supervision of a doctor who is using a well established technique and should be fine. Congratulations on breaking free from benzo addiction%) Your life is about to drastically improve!
 
Ah I just meant in terms of overdosing. Benzos are actually very safe in overdose, unless you combine them with other CNS depressants such as alcohol or opioids. Phenobarb is more risky in this respect. It shouldn't be a problem on that dose but if you drank some alcohol or accidentally took too much then it can be dangerous.

I understand your situation.. that's tricky, and frustrating that in order to get into detox you have to switch to a different medication and try to find out what dose you should be on and for how long! What does your doctor say about this?

I understand that you want to get off the benzos, I really do. However, benzos in particular are much easier to come off and stay off if you do a slow taper. Rushing it often leads to relapse either due to the unpleasant withdrawals or because you are not psychologically ready, especially if you get rebound anxiety, insomnia etc.. it is a false economy if you rush to get off the drugs only to bounce back on them again. I also would absolutely not attempt a phenobarb taper unless you get definitive instructions on what a safe schedule would be. Seizures are not fun! I also think you need to be under medical supervision - does your doctor know that this is your plan?

Benzo withdrawal symptoms can be difficult - but it varies hugely person to person. The slower the taper, the less the side effects.

Have you thought about how you will keep yourself clean once you have quit? That isn't really a discussion for BDD, but it would be a shame to go to all this effort only to relapse again in a few months time. I recommend checking out The Dark Side forum here on BL (covers addiction, mental health and various other things) - there's a benzo addiction megathread in the TDS directory (I think) and you are welcome to start your own thread too - loads of help and support available from people who really understand.
 
Frankly, why you are currnently on a barbiturate for benzo wd's is beyond me. I understand why, but I do not think it is the smartest of choices. If I were you I would get back on the Valium, and taper down slowly as the Ashton manual might suggest. You were addicted to benzos, or dependent, either way there is little reason to introduce a barbiturate when there is no barbiturate addiction, and Valium is perfectly fine for your purposes. Valium would definitely be safer, and I would guess altogether better than phenobarbital. It is not uncommon, this phenobarbital method, but I think it is a bit unecessary. For alcohol and barbiturate wd's and detox, I understand how phenobarbital could be of great use, but if you were on benzos, I would say just stick to benzos.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top