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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Valium tapering progress advice

I

Invisible Helper

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
436
Hi guys, I posted a few weeks ago for Valium taper as it was my first benzo wd experience , and I've managed to get down from 20-40 mgs a day to 5 mgs every other day did that for a week before dropping down completely it's been 4 days since I've had any Valium or benzo period, it's 2 am as I'm typing when I wake up it's gonna be day 5 . I'm also an opiate addict IV blk and I need to quit that as well but trying to get clean over and over and using benzos over and over I ended up getting addicted to the benzos :/ I got clonodine this time and a few flexerils and subs so I think I should be good. But my question is , I'm worried that I haven't made real progress and that my mind is lying to myself cause Valium has a long half life it's not like opiates where after 3-5 days you feel way better right ? Or wrong cause I tapered down somewhat before hand ? I really wanna know where I'm at progress wise thank you.
 
Quick update... I caved in and took 5 mgs at work , it was freezing raining I was so cold ... So 5 days no benzos and took 5 mgs now , anyone with experience can you please reply tell me where I'm at progress wise ? Cause of the long half life is 5 days even shit in terms of progress and will the 5 mg mess things up? I must say the 5 mg Valium hit me literally within 10 minutes which was way quicker than ever usually it take 45 minutes to feel what I felt with 15-20 mgs so in that sense I feel progress . Any help would be nice
 
30 to 40 mg down to 5 mg of valium is a major accomplishment thats the thing though there is no set time frame when it comes to tapering some can do it months some take yrs
but dont be afraid to keep bringing it little by little if anything you should be battling the mental aspect of the WD right now not so much the physical WD aspect
highly highly doubt a 5mg valium habit is enough to create any crazy complications
 
Wow that helps a lot hearing that... I caved in though after 5 days no Valium and took 10 mgs and today again took 10 mgs cause I'm lowering my opiate dosage and I'm freezing at work double WD I'm doing heavy labor so I need to be in at least 60% shape
 
I hope that didn't mess anything up much... Just wondering though , how many days does it take to get over the WD hump? Meaning like with oxy , heroin , and any short half life opiate after the 3rd 4th day you're over the hump of withdrawals and you start getting better from that point on. So in terms of benzos how long is it for Xanax and k pins WD to get over the benzo hump ON AVERAGE I understand there are variations of WD . Also for Valium is there a longer time to wait to pass the hump so to speak because of its 50-150 hours half life (with metabolites at 200+ hour half life) ?? Please I know this is complicated i need experienced benzo users preferably those who've had Valium/k pin experience and if you're benzo + opiate addict that's a bonus lol that would help any knowledge thanks blue lighters !!
 
^Having some trouble posting/editing (gaah!) here was my original post:

Hi, I just want to preface I dont have much experience with opiates except codeine and tramadol so pretty weak but I will put down my drug history if that helps first off.
So I have used clonazepam, diazepam, lorazepam, etizolam, clonazolam, flubromazolam, diclazepam and of course codeine and tramadol. Codeine wasn't really my thing so didn't have too much experience with that. I still use tramadol but only for occasional back pain; I used to use it around 300-400mg a day because I liked the kind of mild antidepressant feel it gave me (may be something to do with its mild SNRI effects I'm not sure) but as of right now, over the past few weeks I took 100-200mg every day, in two doses (like 100mg at 12pm, 200mg at 4pm) but now I'm on 50-100mg a day (trying to keep it mostly to 50).


I too am tapering off benzos but I am tapering off clonazolam. I decided first to seek advice from a healthcare professional though I did not go to my GP, I went to my friend who is a long qualified doctor and is working towards her residency. The main thing she told me that I think can be transferred across is that it's good to taper down by 20-25% of your current dose, every 1-2 days.


(But first off I just wanna say to get down to 5-10mg valium/diazepam from what you were before, is really awesome!)


I too have chosen to use diazepam to taper (instead of clonazolam). As my initial doses, converted from clonazolam, were running at about 240-360mg, I would reduce the dose of diazepam by 20-25% every day. (I think in a previous post somewhere else I stated my figures wrong).


So roughly I would taper down by about 50mg diazepam every day, with a 10mg diazepam emergency slot if needed (I have chosen not to use it yet). This was on the advice of my friend. Of course your maths would be different because of the different amounts we take, but I hope this helps somewhat. I think the key is the 20-25% dose reduction per 1-2 days.


As for how many days it takes to get over the WD humps; I'm not too sure to be honest. For me it varies a little, the first few days are horrible but you either become accustomed to it or it becomes less severe in your eyes. Do you get like the brain zaps/sweats/jitteriness etc.? As for Valium, yes you're right about the pharmacokinetics in it having a longer half-life, but that's what makes it a better substance to use as a taper - I find that I only take one dose of valium a day as a taper, as opposed to clonazolam, where I think I'd be tempted to redose.


That's just my experience with my own taper (which is still ongoing - I've had horrible days, had some OK days) and I'm not sure if I've answered your question, but if you have any questions at all just lemme know, best of luck!


(For some reason I can't seem to edit the original post without deleting all of it! APologies!)
 
Damn you guys are awesome !! Those sites helped a lot ... I'm just greedy for personal experience I like hearing stories that are almost identical to my situation to gauge what I'm gonna go through. I guess benzo buddies is very helpful, the problem is my question is so damn specific it's a poly addicted question of benzo and opiates together . I would like to hear from someone who's fully gone through the Valium or k pin wd process cause I feel klonopin is similar... Thanks JL82 for the story and advice from your doctor friend. I guess if I go down 1 mg every 2 days from the 5 mgs is that reasonable ? I'm seeing some weird thing on benzo buddies of people using water to measure small ass doses of Valium ? Has anyone had to do that and is it necessary? And yes I feel anxious with random twitches or "zaps" where my voice kinda jumps when I'm talking randomly and that scares me I don't want seizures after 6 days cold turkey thinking I'm over the hump
 
I had a few withdrawals and the first ones were a walk in the park.
But it gets worse everytime.

One time a few years into addiction i.had to quit cold turkey for three days from lorazepam because my script was empty and it was weekend.
It was pure hell...I wont go into details.

Another time was in a mental hospital were they tapered me óff xanax in about a week. Again...very very unpleasant.
I was allowed to go home at the weekend and even though i was in bad bad withdrawal i had the willpower to not touch the xanax i had at home.

The last time was in 2009.
I checked into the mental hospital after being addicted to dxm and getting an amphetamine psychosis.
I suggested to taper the diazepam i was also addicted to.
I switched a few months before from lorazepam to diazepam because i wanted to get rid of the benzos and longer acting benzos like diazepam are better to taper.
It took 3 or 4 months and the last dose was 1mg or 0.5mg...I dont remember.
And.that was relatively easy.

I was also addicted to tilidine for 4 years after that and tapered that over the course of a few months which was except for the cravings managable.

Now i'm clean off benzos for 6 years..except a few times inbetween.and clean off opioids/opiates for about a year except two times dhc and oxycodone today.

And I.suggest tapering the diazepam first and the opioids afterwards. Not both at the same time.

I wish you all the best!
 
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Thanks for that story zirbeldude!! What's tilidine? And you can get addicted to dxm ?? Like over the counter dxm??? Did I read that wrong lol?? What are the withdrawals like and how long are they ? And when you quit Valium if I can handle now 5 mgs every 2-3 days is that good in your mind ? Can I jump off cold turkey or should I keep tapering ... And ya I'm quitting benzos so I can use them properly to help me quit opiates, that's how I got hooked on them was taking them to stop opiates and failed like 5 attempts in a row which was a month or two period and got addicted to benzos in that process ...
 
Tilidine is a prescription opioid for pain. Only available in europe. It's Shedule-1 in USA (which doesnt make sense to me)

Dxm...I dont know...I was in a mental hospital and psychotic at the time i quit.
I wouldnt say i was in withdrawal.

If you can handle 5 mg every 2-3 days you could probably quit.
Depends on how long you took them and if you have been addicted to benzos before.

Like i said the first few times I only had very minor problems with quitting.

You would probably be fine but if you wanna be a bit more safe then keep on tapering a bit.
 
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Hi, no problem, I've been through benzos (or, well, etizolam WDs) before and I stupidly did it cold turkey. Worst two weeks of my life and something I'll never try again. The above post's links are great!

For me I've never felt the urge to dissolve the pellet in a solution to measure it out that way. I suppose with drugs like flubromazolam that are crazy potent but in my experience I have always just eaten the pills. Going by the advice off my friend I'd say a 1mg reduction every 1-2 days is reasonable! If you want I can ask my Dr friend too to make it more specific to your case. Merry Christmas!
 
Invisible Helper said:
Damn you guys are awesome !! Those sites helped a lot ... I'm just greedy for personal experience I like hearing stories that are almost identical to my situation to gauge what I'm gonna go through. I guess benzo buddies is very helpful, the problem is my question is so damn specific it's a poly addicted question of benzo and opiates together . I would like to hear from someone who's fully gone through the Valium or k pin wd process cause I feel klonopin is similar... Thanks JL82 for the story and advice from your doctor friend. I guess if I go down 1 mg every 2 days from the 5 mgs is that reasonable ? I'm seeing some weird thing on benzo buddies of people using water to measure small ass doses of Valium ? Has anyone had to do that and is it necessary? And yes I feel anxious with random twitches or "zaps" where my voice kinda jumps when I'm talking randomly and that scares me I don't want seizures after 6 days cold turkey thinking I'm over the hump
Click to expand...
I used to use Benzo Buddies a while ago and they're some great people on that forum, but unfortunately, many of 'them', view 'us' as junkies. Also, I would often see threads titled something along the lines of " I'm 5 years clean off Benzos, will this hell ever end?" Which as a Benzo (& Opiate) addict myself, I didn't find exactly inspiring.

I've been through the mill many times over the past 6 years with my Benzo addiction. Countless cold turkey withdrawals - which for some ridiculous reason I would always do concurrently alongside Opiate withdrawal. So at my worst, I would be bingeing on hundreds of milligrams of various Benzos and Opiates and then stop cold turkey and put myself through needless hell. Then finally in September 2013 I cold turkey'd off a 1 month 30-40 mg a day Alprazolam binge. I completely lost control of my body & mind, I genuinely thought I'd lost it and was never coming back. Scariest experience of my life which has changed everything forever by opening up my mind to what the human mind is actually capable of! I was admitted to hospital with 'Psychosis' I have no idea if this was the correct diagnosis. Since then I've continued to battle, starting using again, and then tapering, being clean for a while and then use again and repeat the taper process. I know this is not good, but it feels infinitely better than the way I felt going through all those cold turkey's between 2009-2013.

I must add that it is extremely dangerous to not follow the correct taper procedure for Benzodiazepines, and that I'm extremely fortunate to have never knowingly had a seizure. You probably all know this anyway, but Benzo withdrawal can be fatal.

Stay safe kids

Merry Boxing Day ;)
 
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Lol I know benzo buddies can be ridiculous!! This guy named "Diaz -Pam" was telling me some bogus advice they all expect everyone to taper from 5 mgs for years before they jump off that just isn't a good idea... Why taper for a year if you only abused the drug for a few months... If you go a year now straight even with small doses you're gonna be deeper into addiction cause you're taking it everyday for so long... This guy was basically opposing the Ashton manual this is what he said...

"Three months isn't an "only" amount of time. It's plenty long enough to develop a strong dependency. I wasn't on valium for much longer than that before I first tried tapering, and it was horrendous.

Like I said, no one can give you categorical answers to your questions, because everyone reacts to benzos so differently. Also no one can give you any prediction about how long before you will be 50% healed, let alone 80-100% healed. We just can't tell you. I know that's frustrating, but it's the truth.

Not everyone has a sensitivity to benzos. There will be many anecdotal stories told, even on this site, of members who know people who taper off their benzo fairly quickly with few problems, even after long term use. Those people never seek out a site like Benzo Buddies simply because they don't need to. Those of us who end up finding BB are here because we are probably the unlucky ones who are more sensitive to the drug, and who were desperate enough to search online for something to help us with our misery of trying to taper. You may well be one of the people who won't have too many problems tapering off, but doing the taper is only part of the journey.

You need to stop comparing benzos (including xanax and valium) to opiates or another other kind of drug. So many people, including doctors, make the mistake of thinking those with a sensitivity can just do a "detox" off a benzo, and then within a fairly short period of time they're over it. Benzos do not work that way. Getting the drug out of your system is only part of the journey, and it can be a mistake to think that it's all you have to do. It can take a long time for the body and brain to heal after using benzos - maybe years - depending on the type of taper you do.

I doubt that you will find anyone here who will recommend a taper where you dose only every few days. There are a lot of different methods of tapering to be found on BB, and often some heated discussions about what is best, but the one common denominator for doing a taper will be that you should be consistently dosing every day, sometimes even multiple times a day, and then taper using small cuts over a period of time that allows you to still continue to function fairly normally on a day to day basis. That may be the Ashton Method, cut and hold method or a daily method. No method is bad or wrong. It just depends on what suits the individual.

I won't predict or dare to tell you how you are going to react to the type of taper you are doing. It might work quite well, because you may not be as sensitive to benzos as most of us here are, but I guess the simple fact that you have sought out BB tells me that maybe you are struggling with the taper you are doing, otherwise you wouldn't be here. If you are struggling, then I'm sorry but there are no shortcuts.

What you do have to remember is that no one wants to do a taper any longer than they need to, so no one here is tapering needlessly long, or for the fun of it. If people are doing really slow daily tapers, it's because they have to, not because they want to. So all I can say is that if you feel you can taper the way you are tapering, then that's what you should do. I won't tell you how you should taper, but if things get really bad for you, then you will have to consider something different."


I got the feeling he's just mad cause it took him 18 months to taper from 5 mgs Valium to .01 mgs and jump off I don't have that much time and I think he feels like everyone has to do that cause he did which is horrible advice... And he's a moderator on benzo buddies LOL j guess I'll stick to blue light ...
 
Benzo buddies is a fucking joke, people on there calling me "Einstein " talking shit nicely basically , and I said "derp " at the end of my reply and get a private message from a moderator telling me im breaking the rules being rude?? Fucking joke blue light is 100000X better
 
Lol I get a warning almost banned because on my profile it said "benzos + opiates = heaven" they said its glorifying drug use almost banned me that was his way to get back at me I think? How sad you were right they view everyone as junkies outside the benzo area
 
Hello, I'm new too this site but a Psycho-Pharmacologist. Maybe I can explain what's happening to the brain during this withdrawal as explained. At 40mg of Diazepam a day, the brains GABA network starts to downregulate PAS on the GABA subtype neurons. Since a normal dose of 5mg of Diazepam only activates 3% of the GABA network with no tolerance, but with 1x max dosing a day at 40mg you are attempting to activate about 30% the GABA network with no tolerance, but you have tolerance so you are just trying to get to the 3%, which won't happen because of downregulation. I currently take 15mg of Clorazapate also known as Tranxene SD-T. This is a prodrug to a Benzodiazepine and develops tolerance 400X less quickly than any of the other Benzo. I wish you luck on your reduction, next time try a Librium 50x3d 25x3 15x3 5x3 then Dalmane 15mg x3 qhs. I'm not giving medical advice but that sounds more stable.
 
Woah bro you know so much about this shit!!! Please feel free to explain anything else you know ... What do you mean 30%? How do you know that 5 mgs is 3% or whatever ?
 
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