vaccines hurt more than help... autism, parkinsons, cancer etc...

the toad

the toad

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full story here

Many vaccines are laced with the adjuvant salt form of Aluminum (directly linked to early onsetAlzheimer’s Disease,Macrophagic Myofasciitis,Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) &Thimerosal Mercury, a devastating neurotoxin implicated in the explosivespread of autism,until recently at1 in 67…then 1 in 60…now at a rate of 1 in 38 (which translates to 1 in 30 – as boys are 4 times more susceptible); both linked topsychological, neurological & immunological problems. Heavy metals eventually collect in areas of fatty tissue, including the brain, and linger there for decades, upwards of a lifetime.
 
it's still 'drugs in the media', and has lots of info, but the article is over 2 yrs old.
 
Thimerosal Mercury, a devastating neurotoxin implicated in the explosivespread of autism
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lol

I'll make sure to tell everyone I know to not get vaccinated, that will certainly help with the humongous resurgence of diseases humanity should have eradicated 10s of years ago like measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, et cetera. were it not for vaccine noncompliance. "Well it's okay if just me or my kid doesn't get vaccinated because everyone else is" - no. That logic doesn't hold when there's a significant proportion of people believing it.

Don't eat any pickles, or use any tin foil, because you might ingest part-per-million amounts of aluminum! Oh noes! Water soluble metals! Throw out your cookware! Rip the copper pipes out of your home because god forbid you ingest metals! But then go throw down a bunch of your hippy nutrient gels with selenium, chromium, cobalt, iron, sulphur, bromine, iodine, etc, because those are totally fine.

And don't even get me started on the people who used e.g. topical mercurochrome preparations for years with no ill effects. You absorb more elemental mercury from eating tuna than vaccines but I haven't heard anyone saying "stop eating tuna salad because you'll get autism". Now today we have stricter than ever controls on mercury in food and medicine *(it's not in vaccines any more) so logically shouldn't autism be on the fall since the days when mercuric disinfectants, calamine etc were used?

tl;dr: correlation, causation, learn them. Sorry, telling people to ignore medical advances because some individuals want to blame genetic defects on them is stupid, stupid, stupid. Wakefield got his ass shot the fuck down for this vaccines-autism thing and for good fucking reason.
 
sekio said:
l
And don't even get me started on the people who used e.g. topical mercurochrome preparations for years with no ill effects. You absorb more elemental mercury from eating tuna than vaccines but I haven't heard anyone saying "stop eating tuna salad because you'll get autism". Now today we have stricter than ever controls on mercury in food and medicine *(it's not in vaccines any more) so logically shouldn't autism be on the fall since the days when mercuric disinfectants, calamine etc were used?

tl;dr: correlation, causation, learn them. Sorry, telling people to ignore medical advances because some individuals want to blame genetic defects on them is stupid, stupid, stupid. Wakefield got his ass shot the fuck down for this vaccines-autism thing and for good fucking reason.
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Mostly agree with you, but two things:
1) Maybe people no longer eat tuna because of mercury. Not necessarily because they are afraid of autism specifically, but the US government recommends pregnant women and children don't eat tuna more than X times a week due to high mercury content.

2) Do you believe that the incredible increase in autism in the past 40 years is due to an increasing rate of genetic defects, or just due to better ID methods and more accurate (or different) diagnosis? That is a common belief, but not entirely accurate.

While the mercury-caused autism hypothesis seems to have been soundly disproven, the rate of autism has skyrocketed truly dramatically. Better diagnosis and a broader definition of autism seem to account for half of the increase, but the other half needs to be explained. There is mounting evidence (see also here) that it is due to pesticide and/or herbicide exposure, especially in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters in utero.

In fact, a Stanford study of twins in 2010 showed that genetics accounts for 38% of autism risk, and environment for the other 62%.
 
sekio said:
lol

I'll make sure to tell everyone I know to not get vaccinated, that will certainly help with the humongous resurgence of diseases humanity should have eradicated 10s of years ago like measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, et cetera. were it not for vaccine noncompliance. "Well it's okay if just me or my kid doesn't get vaccinated because everyone else is" - no. That logic doesn't hold when there's a significant proportion of people believing it.

Don't eat any pickles, or use any tin foil, because you might ingest part-per-million amounts of aluminum! Oh noes! Water soluble metals! Throw out your cookware! Rip the copper pipes out of your home because god forbid you ingest metals! But then go throw down a bunch of your hippy nutrient gels with selenium, chromium, cobalt, iron, sulphur, bromine, iodine, etc, because those are totally fine.

And don't even get me started on the people who used e.g. topical mercurochrome preparations for years with no ill effects. You absorb more elemental mercury from eating tuna than vaccines but I haven't heard anyone saying "stop eating tuna salad because you'll get autism". Now today we have stricter than ever controls on mercury in food and medicine *(it's not in vaccines any more) so logically shouldn't autism be on the fall since the days when mercuric disinfectants, calamine etc were used?

tl;dr: correlation, causation, learn them. Sorry, telling people to ignore medical advances because some individuals want to blame genetic defects on them is stupid, stupid, stupid. Wakefield got his ass shot the fuck down for this vaccines-autism thing and for good fucking reason.
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Well said.

I could never decide which group I hate more. Creationists or the anti-vaccine movement, Ken Hovind or Andrew Wakefield (might be a tie for douchebaggery there). Maybe they are just equally stupid and ignorant lol.
 
a) Sekio's post is correct and needs no repeating.

also b) even in the hypothetical case that vaccines increased the risk of Autism, seeing as e.g. tetanus is 100% fatal untreated and about 60% fatal with modern ICU care and leaves long term neurological effects most of the time, I'd still get my fucking vaccines as the cost/benefit analysis is STILL favorable. This can be generalized to the other vaccines as well, the diseases protected against are FAR nastier and harmful then autism is, and by looking at stats from pre-vaccine times, one can see these diseases where far more prevalent then autism is now, even in the first world with modern hygiene. 1950's America was not exactly a festering slum, but never the less, polio was endemic and crippled many.

@ Freddy, I'd say anti-vaxxers are worse then creationists. Creationism, in of itself, is harmless stupidity with few implications. Anti-vax movement however has seen a resurgence of infectious diseases that kill people.
 
rangrz said:
@ Freddy, I'd say anti-vaxxers are worse then creationists. Creationism, in of itself, is harmless stupidity with few implications. Anti-vax movement however has seen a resurgence of infectious diseases that kill people.
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Of course I completely agree. Although IMO both groups cause damage to kids. Creationism does damage to kids and their minds, sure it's not life threatening, but you have to agree that teaching kids bullshit has to have caused some damage. Think of all those kids being taught this shit and where they will be in 20-30 years.

But as far as the anti-vaxxers go. I think all states/countries should have mandatory vaccinations. Freedom of speech or whatever "right" these guys are abusing should not protect them because they are threatening their children's lives. I say arrest any parents who's kid die as a result of their refusal of vaccination. Charge them with murder or at least manslaughter, they need to understand that since the kid can't make their own decision they are essentially putting their kids in harms way. IMO it is a clear cut case of child endangerment. In fact just charge all parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids with child endangerment. That should set a clear example.
 
^

FORCING creationism on people can be harmful, but simply holding the belief to one self is not. On the other hand, refusing vaccination a) Since I live in Canada, my tax dollars will have to pay to treat that person for an otherwise easily avoided disease. b) If I show up at the hospital cause I got hurt or sick, it might take longer for me get admitted cause it's packed up with people who are sick because they refused a vaccine, and c) since vaccines are not always 100% effective, and some people for genuine medical reasons, are contraindicated from getting them, the more anti-vaxxers, the more people who can harbor this disease and spread it to persons who the vaccine did not grant full immunity to or whom the vaccine had SERIOUS and REAL risks, like an immunodeficient patient.

It's not just a matter of academics and Lenski vs Schlafly or Dawkins vs Hovind, it's a practical public health issue.
 
I could be wrong, but I think vaccine-resistant organisms are not as much of a threat as antibiotic-resistant organisms. We can keep making new vaccines indefinitely, but we may eventually run out of effective antibiotics.
 
^

That is not how works... Pathogens do no get more virulent because of a vaccine. (Even antibiotic resistance does not make them more virulent, just harder to treat with antibiotics, but a vaccine does not cause the conditions that would select for resistance to a antibiotic/anti-viral and is a moot point in that regard)

Also, what counts as deadly disease exactly?
 
Disease is natures way of controlling population imo.... disease usually only becomes a serious problem in areas of dense population....

The flu can kill ppl... but it doesnt kill most people who get it... i think deadly disease means that you have say more than a 10% chance of death or permanent damage to those who contract it :\
 
^That's a bit social darwinian. Nature also controls population through famine, killing either from animals or your own kind, earthquakes, volcanoes, and weather. Should we not prepare or prevent these to let nature take it's course?

Many diseases start out in rural areas, and some are more common amongst rural people.
the diseases protected against are FAR nastier and harmful then autism is
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Depends on where they are on the spectrum. Some it's not even noticeable, even somewhat beneficial. Others are totally disabled by it. Won't kill them like many of those diseases would, but is disabling.

I have heard some say that the symptoms of autism occurred around when they got vaccinated. But almost all the science says there is no increased risk. Maybe autistic people were more likely to die from now rare diseases? Maybe it speeds it up a few weeks or months? Maybe it's better recognized and in the past they would've been diagnosed with something else?
 
The 10% risk of death or permanent disability is fucking HUGE. That is higher then the death rate for The plague from it's last pandemic in the 1800's to now, higher then the general mortality rate from anthrax, higher then that of smallpox, far higher then cholera, higher then polio, etc, etc, etc.
 
^Yeah, even if something has a mortality rate of .1% and it infects a billion people, that's like a million dead.
 
To the toad, I find it odd that you invoke evolution whilst being ignorant of the action of vaccines. Vaccines are never 100% effective, nor are they without risks. However, the risks are minimal compared to the vast majority of drugs (including those I am sure you enjoy). Try to inform your opinion from sources other than biased propaganda machines.
 
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