Using weaker opioid only sparsly to take the edge off?

[Kurt Cobain]

Hey so I feel like i probably fucked myself and reset all my progress. I've been withdrawling for going on 2 weeks here first I kicked the mgm but I used 7oh to make the jump off easier I cut that put and haven't touched it but I did slip twice so far and taken a scoop of plain leaf kratom.at night. I've been through the ringer so kindling definetly plays a big role and again im scared I reset all my progress. I cant take much more time in this physical state, like truly, haven't eaten shit for weeks hardly drinking, doimg my best but its hard. I dont intend on taking anymore and it wasnt even enough to do much at all, not that I could tell at least obvi its still in my body but im hoping since it didn't flip that switch amd offer any real relief that i didn't reset my timeline. Please be honest with me

 

[MsDiz]

Hey so I feel like i probably fucked myself and reset all my progress. I've been withdrawling for going on 2 weeks here first I kicked the mgm but I used 7oh to make the jump off easier I cut that put and haven't touched it but I did slip twice so far and taken a scoop of plain leaf kratom.at night. I've been through the wringer so kindling definetly plays a big role and again im scared I reset all my progress. I cant take much more time in this physical state, like truly, haven't eaten shit for weeks hardly drinking, doimg my best but its hard. I dont intend on taking anymore and it wasnt even enough to do much at all, not that I could tell at least obvi its still in my body but im hoping since it didn't flip that switch amd offer any real relief that i didn't reset my timeline. Please be honest with me

Hey, youve done really well to reduce snd stop and it’s very normal to have some blips. I don’t think you’ll have reset your progress at all.

The fact you’re not eating and likely dehydrated is probably contributing a lot to how bad you’re currently feeling as well as the psychological effects from withdrawing.

I know it’s difficult, but do try to get some fluids into you, electrolytes added to water will help a lot. Taking some food that’s easily digested would definitely be advisable. Even if it’s some liquid nutrition, it’s better than nothing. I know it feels hard to eat and drink but it is important. Small meals through the day rather than big ones and fill a 2L bottle of water and aim to make sure you’re drinking it through the day.

Sounds stupid but if you can force yourself to get out for a walk it will also help. A bit of movement and fresh air and sunshine (if you’re lucky to have) it is surprisingly effective!

 

[Keif' Richards]

@Kurt Cobain I'm sorry man. I did not realize you were dealing with all of this.Slips are going to happen. You can't go back though, so don't beat yourself up over it. Imagine yourself in the past when you were a lot worse. From that perspective, you'd be looking at your pathetic situation right now and I'm sure you'd be proud of yourself, thinking you'd never have the balls to even try. You've gotta be proud of yourself.

I feel we've talked about some of this in the past. Is being Opioid-free a necessity? Is it not possible to get a hold of Buprenorphine and taper slowly off of that?

 

[4DQSAR]

It was only when another BR PMed me concerning pure 7OHM that I ran into the term 'zero trap' which simply means a problem especially with that class of opioid is tachyphylaxis i.e. a person VERY quickly just has to take the stuff to feel 'normal'.

Lest we forget, 7OHM is really potent (based on EC50/ED50 and behavioral studies in animal models and a few early self-reporting based human studies) anywhere from x10-x22 morphine.

It's strong stuff.

Add tachphylaxis and I HOPE the BLer who PMed me 'got out in their socks' which is to say escaped the trap at the absolute last moment.

But heck, methadone, morphine, oxycodone and even hydromorphone are all less active and are not biassed TOWARDS beta-arrestin recruitment (addiction).

 

[Kurt Cobain]

@Kurt Cobain I'm sorry man. I did not realize you were dealing with all of this.Slips are going to happen. You can't go back though, so don't beat yourself up over it. Imagine yourself in the past when you were a lot worse. From that perspective, you'd be looking at your pathetic situation right now and I'm sure you'd be proud of yourself, thinking you'd never have the balls to even try. You've gotta be proud of yourself.

I feel we've talked about some of this in the past. Is being Opioid-free a necessity? Is it not possible to get a hold of Buprenorphine and taper slowly off of that?

Its not nessicary, I just want to be off the opiates, I want to feel and be present. I moved so I cant get shit, all id need is a handful of benzos and I could kick it easily but ya know.and I could probably gind some.bupe if I really tried on the street but id rather be opiate free. I do have sr17 though but im just worroed taking that will only prolong the withdrawls and that its not the miracle drug redditards claim

 

[Kurt Cobain]

It was only when another BR PMed me concerning pure 7OHM that I ran into the term 'zero trap' which simply means a problem especially with that class of opioid is tachyphylaxis i.e. a person VERY quickly just has to take the stuff to feel 'normal'.

Lest we forget, 7OHM is really potent (based on EC50/ED50 and behavioral studies in animal models and a few early self-reporting based human studies) anywhere from x10-x22 morphine.

It's strong stuff.

Add tachphylaxis and I HOPE the BLer who PMed me 'got out in their socks' which is to say escaped the trap at the absolute last moment.

But heck, methadone, morphine, oxycodone and even hydromorphone are all less active and are not biassed TOWARDS beta-arrestin recruitment (addiction).

Ya 7oh aint even the big issue, I've kicked gram+ a day habits and it wasnt too bad. I think the mgm withdrawl 15 and 16 on top is really whats making this unmanageable ontop of my.moms heart giving out, my dog died, my uncle died and my grams got dementia all within the last month is making me so goddamn uncomfortable and I just need a fucking valium and to stop being a bitch. I caved took normal kratom the last few days, gonna try amd stop that today but im worried all my physicsl.symptoms will just reappear. I was in withdrawl the whole time so never took much enough to offer real relief but alas I doubt that matters to my.body

 

[4DQSAR]

@Kurt Cobain - with all drugs, YMMV. This person WAS stuggling. If you didn't, good for you. But anecdotes aren't evidence. Who can say if others are fine cutting the stuff you find hard (no pun intended)?

 

[Kurt Cobain]

@Kurt Cobain - with all drugs, YMMV. This person WAS stuggling. If you didn't, good for you. But anecdotes aren't evidence. Who can say if others are fine cutting the stuff you find hard (no pun intended)?

I wasnt saying to everybody its nothing, just wasnt my main concern and not pertaining to what I origionally posted for. I think the reason 7oh is getting a nasty reputation is bc its manys first real drug experience which seemed harmless buying at the vape shop but who knows, like ya said ymmv everybody is different. Its a relatively harmless substance so long as you go in educated and preferably made into an extended release version to stop compulsive dosing and depndancy forming as fast perhaphs idk how thatd wokr

 

[4DQSAR]

@Kurt Cobain - and an opioid an order of magnitude more potent than morphine is 'mild'?

It has low oral bioavailabilitty but if a person has access to the pure material, other ROAs ar possible.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

@Kurt Cobain - and an opioid an order of magnitude more potent than morphine is 'mild'?

It has low oral bioavailabilitty but if a person has access to the pure material, other ROAs ar possible.

There's no legit evidence to backup that 7oh is that much stronger than morphine and I doubt we will ever have a study to back that up just being the nature of how 7oh works. 7oh is also a partial agonist so ya its mild compared to any full agonist. I have access to pure 7oh and no other roas are not possible, snorting does dick, cant vaporize and id be willing to bet you cant bang it perhaps boofing but idk and ya while that's anecdotal im taking into account what hundreds of others have said on that specefically. Ive never heard 7oh has a poor BA% though, not saying youre wrong just never heard that, do you have anything to back that up like a study?

I also never called it mild either idk why you keep putting words into my mouth, I said it wasnt my main concern and in comparrasion to the mgm 15 and 16 I really wasnt worried about withdrawing from the 7oh

 

[4DQSAR]

For the record - if one has access to pure 7-OHM in the form of an addition salt, it's entirely practical to employ parentheral ROAs.

But not vapourizing the freebase, That hydroxyl increases the melting-point.

I assume that's why 7-acetoxymitragynine showed up - the ester lowering that MP.

 

[cnnka]

I wasnt saying to everybody its nothing, just wasnt my main concern and not pertaining to what I origionally posted for. I think the reason 7oh is getting a nasty reputation is bc its manys first real drug experience which seemed harmless buying at the vape shop but who knows, like ya said ymmv everybody is different. Its a relatively harmless substance so long as you go in educated and preferably made into an extended release version to stop compulsive dosing and depndancy forming as fast perhaphs idk how thatd wokr

Idk man, the anxiety that 7-OH WD brings is like no other, and that same intensity of anxiety carries over into PAWS most of the time.

And I get a lot of side effects from 7-OH if I use it every day, usually histamine reactions, constipation, etc. the usual, but at the same time with traditional opiates these side effects are less severe, on the other hand with 7 one day I’ll be constipated but the other day not, it seems like the side effects are rotating it’s weird.

It also seems to have this numbing, almost dissociative effect, if you know what I mean, that keeps building up with each redose.

I don’t feel too comfortable with it, to be honest, because it’s a relatively new substance and we still don’t know that much about it, like what receptors it actually hits, its long term side effects, etc. I basically treat it like an RC chemical.

I think it’s kinda dirty, in the same way tramadol is, where it feels like it’s hitting so many different receptors in the brain. I’d honestly feel a lot more comfortable with pretty much any traditional opiate because we know a lot more about which receptors they act on, and their effects are generally more predictable.

7OH feels clean enough to pass as an opiate, but at the same time there’s something kinda dirty about it, at least for me. It’s hard to explain, but something about it just feels off.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Idk man, the anxiety that 7-OH WD brings is like no other, and that same intensity of anxiety carries over into PAWS most of the time.

And I get a lot of side effects from 7-OH if I use it every day, usually histamine reactions, constipation, etc. the usual, but at the same time with traditional opiates these side effects are less severe, on the other hand with 7 one day I’ll be constipated but the other day not, it seems like the side effects are rotating it’s weird.

It also seems to have this numbing, almost dissociative effect, if you know what I mean, that keeps building up with each redose.

I don’t feel too comfortable with it, to be honest, because it’s a relatively new substance and we still don’t know that much about it, like what receptors it actually hits, its long term side effects, etc. I basically treat it like an RC chemical.

I think it’s kinda dirty, in the same way tramadol is, where it feels like it’s hitting so many different receptors in the brain. I’d honestly feel a lot more comfortable with pretty much any traditional opiate because we know a lot more about which receptors they act on, and their effects are generally more predictable.

7OH feels clean enough to pass as an opiate, but at the same time there’s something kinda dirty about it, at least for me. It’s hard to explain, but something about it just feels off.

I know what you mean, when i say harmless I mean relatively as in you cant od on it directly and for the masses that's what you want. 7oh does have strange anxiety i realized ordering pure powders instead of tablets that was mostly taken care of as well as the numb arms and legs, especially upon waking up so I attribute those weird side effects to dirty pills with leftover solvents or something.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Idk man, the anxiety that 7-OH WD brings is like no other, and that same intensity of anxiety carries over into PAWS most of the time.

And I get a lot of side effects from 7-OH if I use it every day, usually histamine reactions, constipation, etc. the usual, but at the same time with traditional opiates these side effects are less severe, on the other hand with 7 one day I’ll be constipated but the other day not, it seems like the side effects are rotating it’s weird.

It also seems to have this numbing, almost dissociative effect, if you know what I mean, that keeps building up with each redose.

I don’t feel too comfortable with it, to be honest, because it’s a relatively new substance and we still don’t know that much about it, like what receptors it actually hits, its long term side effects, etc. I basically treat it like an RC chemical.

I think it’s kinda dirty, in the same way tramadol is, where it feels like it’s hitting so many different receptors in the brain. I’d honestly feel a lot more comfortable with pretty much any traditional opiate because we know a lot more about which receptors they act on, and their effects are generally more predictable.

7OH feels clean enough to pass as an opiate, but at the same time there’s something kinda dirty about it, at least for me. It’s hard to explain, but something about it just feels off.

I do think it may be neuro toxic in higher dosages for longer periods of time. I have no evidence to back that up, just a bunch based on what I've experienced but even with purer powders there's still other alkaloids in concentrations way higher than you'd get from plain leaf and those very well.coul attribute to the side effects more than 7oh itself and id wager its that or the dirty tablets being that issue went away when I started doing 95%+ pure 7oh powders.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

For the record - if one has access to pure 7-OHM in the form of an addition salt, it's entirely practical to employ parentheral ROAs.

But not vapourizing the freebase, That hydroxyl increases the melting-point.

I assume that's why 7-acetoxymitragynine showed up - the ester lowering that MP.

I've tried with salts, granted I had a tolerance but I did do my due diligence and at least test on a first dose of the day and sniffing would hardly even bring me out of withdrawls. I tried smoking as well and it just kinda turned black with little smoke. Ive done it both with freebase and salts. I've also tried other ROAs with mgm15 to no avail both citrate and freebase as well.

Again tolerance plays a role but I did try to give it the best shot by making trying on a wake up dose. I know this is not fact though just what I've experienced and my friends whom tried other roas as well.

Plugging mayors with the salts perhaps but I wouldn't try shooting even pure shit still gonna be some other alkaloids in there and id reckon itd be a bad time

 

[cnnka]

I do think it may be neuro toxic in higher dosages for longer periods of time. I have no evidence to back that up, just a bunch based on what I've experienced but even with purer powders there's still other alkaloids in concentrations way higher than you'd get from plain leaf and those very well.coul attribute to the side effects more than 7oh itself and id wager its that or the dirty tablets being that issue went away when I started doing 95%+ pure 7oh powders.

That’s what I feel too , I feel it’s neurotoxic I can’t back it up but it feels like it. Also another thing I noticed some times but I can’t be sure is when I’m high on it like my hand experience some kind of light dyskinesia. Also believe is from dirty leftovers not to say 7 is clean but those impurities makes it worse , purest I had was 86% my plus has been out of stock of higher purity. Nowdays I always dose it along with benzos and it seems that they counteract some of the bad sides of it like the weird anxiety or dyskinesia .

However I haven’t heard anyone to had horrific side effects because of it but I maybe just haven’t heard it yet. I have two pills left and it’s over for me I have them over a week now and I’m anxious to take it idk it has left me a bad taste.

 

[4DQSAR]

purest I had was 86% my plus has been out of stock of higher purity.

The truth is we ALL know that 7-OHM is NOT extracted from the plant but syntheized, specifically a single-electron oxidation mediated by Oxone™. But since the side-products are active (althugh less so), why would a chemist clean up the product?

So when stating a physical property, is that of 100% pure material.

As for snorting salts - well, how soluble is that salt? It isn't automatically the hydrchloride.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

That’s what I feel too , I feel it’s neurotoxic I can’t back it up but it feels like it. Also another thing I noticed some times but I can’t be sure is when I’m high on it like my hand experience some kind of light dyskinesia. Also believe is from dirty leftovers not to say 7 is clean but those impurities makes it worse , purest I had was 86% my plus has been out of stock of higher purity. Nowdays I always dose it along with benzos and it seems that they counteract some of the bad sides of it like the weird anxiety or dyskinesia .

However I haven’t heard anyone to had horrific side effects because of it but I maybe just haven’t heard it yet. I have two pills left and it’s over for me I have them over a week now and I’m anxious to take it idk it has left me a bad taste.

Try powders at least 92% and check with yourself to see if the side effects dissipate. I say neuro toxic for high dosages at a gram a day or more just bc thats where I was always at and experienced the side effevts and that can happen from taking too much of anything tbh

 

[Kurt Cobain]

The truth is we ALL know that 7-OHM is NOT extracted from the plant but syntheized, specifically a single-electron oxidation mediated by Oxone™. But since the side-products are active (althugh less so), why would a chemist clean up the product?

So when state a physical property, is that of 100% pure material.

As for snorting salts - well, how soluble is that salt? It isn't automatically the hydrchloride.

Couldn't tell you the purity of the salt just the powder itself which their salts typically sat from 85 to 91% purity. Thats for 7oh, the mgm I've had citrate and hcl salts but never noticed any effect at all snorting but I mean idk even though its a salt I still had the best experience mixing with lemon juice and taking it orally like my free base powders.

 

[4DQSAR]

Try powders at least 92% and check with yourself to see if the side effects dissipate.

Well, I'm not about to break any local law.

But is that someone STATING purity or did you have some third party perform qualitative analysis?

I bumped into someone who was amazed that my prefered instrumentation was GC-MS/NMR or X-ray crystalography.

It turned out they tested gray-market drugs - all of those dubious 'supplements' BUT they also tested 7-OHM.

Heavy metals, THAT was why we sort of talked across each other. Because to avoid the need for a GSL, all of the supplements CLAIM to be natural, they are essentially untested. While I can at least be sure no stray metals will be in a synthetic, if it's grown (or in this case a plant with the essential precursor is grown) then obviously just like animals and fungi, those plants will tend to concentrate metal ions - especially if they mimic a metal the plant actually needs.

Cadmium mimics zinc, lead and mercury mimic calcium and some arsinates and arsenites mimic things like phosphates or silicates. That sort of thing.

With kratom, it turns out that it's often grown on cheap land that cannot be used for food crops. Land that had hosted a factory of some sort or even been used to dump toxic waste.