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Bupe Using Oxycodone to help subutex withdrawls?

Hello everyone! I am kind of new here and was following this post. the same thing happens to me that happens to lilpeach. I completely understand and I don't want to give people the wrong impression nor am disagreeing with the folks with the experience here..

My dumbass used to IV 4mg of bupenorpene in the am with the intent to stay off heroin. My resolve would crack in the afternoon and I would IV heroin in the evening. Same with suboxone. Never any onset of withdrawn symptoms. That only happens to me cold turkey off of dope. I know it is flat out stupid to do this and really should scrape together some loot to go see a sub dr

. I have a horrible pattern of this and need to get a solid recovery plan in place my question is as a rule me doing it the way I have described above and it doesn't throw me into percipitated withdraw be a "individual results may vary" kind of thing? For the past few weeks I have been taking 4mg of suboxone film and maybe every 2nd or 3rd day without any withdraw symptoms slipping and IV using opiates (heroin). Just makes me wonder why that doesn't jack me into withdrawal and also reinforces upon me I really need to fully understand what I am doing before I bend my wookie. :)

I thought I understood how bupenorpene and suboxone work and the diffrences between the two. It also makes me realize I need to firm up my detox plan and pay attention to how I come off the suboxone. I am sick of heroin and want out before i really trash my life but sub drs in va are hellishly expensive and if i am going to play shadetree detox dr on myself i need to take better notes I appreciate it you guys and thanks. Glad it works for you too lilpeach.
 
Hello everyone! I am kind of new here and was following this post. the same thing happens to me that happens to lilpeach. I completely understand and I don't want to give people the wrong impression nor am disagreeing with the folks with the experience here..

My dumbass used to IV 4mg of bupenorpene in the am with the intent to stay off heroin. My resolve would crack in the afternoon and I would IV heroin in the evening. Same with suboxone. Never any onset of withdrawn symptoms. That only happens to me cold turkey off of dope. I know it is flat out stupid to do this and really should scrape together some loot to go see a sub dr

. I have a horrible pattern of this and need to get a solid recovery plan in place my question is as a rule me doing it the way I have described above and it doesn't throw me into percipitated withdraw be a "individual results may vary" kind of thing? For the past few weeks I have been taking 4mg of suboxone film and maybe every 2nd or 3rd day without any withdraw symptoms slipping and IV using opiates (heroin). Just makes me wonder why that doesn't jack me into withdrawal and also reinforces upon me I really need to fully understand what I am doing before I bend my wookie. :)

I thought I understood how bupenorpene and suboxone work and the diffrences between the two. It also makes me realize I need to firm up my detox plan and pay attention to how I come off the suboxone. I am sick of heroin and want out before i really trash my life but sub drs in va are hellishly expensive and if i am going to play shadetree detox dr on myself i need to take better notes I appreciate it you guys and thanks. Glad it works for you too lilpeach.

PW's only happen when you use suboxone after being stable on opiates with them still in your system. You will not get them if you are stable on suboxone and then use an opiate.
 
Last day today before I get my script tomorrow-Bad news and good news. bad first right?? I am feeling like SHIT. only due to my own actions. didn't save enough percs to keep me out of wd's today. I had like 2 left when I woke up this morning. I am a fucken idiot for not rationing them out. So the only good news is that today is the LAST day and the ONLY day I have felt shitty. I should have saved actually the most for today being the day that is the furthest out with no BUPE but hell I am obviously an addict. feels weird to say or at least type that. no one would ever guess that about me :). So this is the end of the road for this thread at least. I will say that it is times like this tho and I always say "I am going to take my script as I am supposed to when I get it" or "I am never letting this happen again" bullshit-the first day I get my script I am already taking more than I am supposed to. there is a reason why they don't prescribe people just BUPE and I am a shining example of BUPE abuse. So I guess I will get through this too like anything else and life will go one. thanks for all the input :)
 
just wanted to update this once more because I picked up my script this morning and its like 10 am here. I forgot how horrible opiate withdrawl is. I am so scared to ever get off this stuff. I got my script and quick snorted one and felt instant relief. but this morning was another story. I was tossing and turning to the point where the blankets on your bed just turn into one big ball. I was so uncomfortable I couldn't sleep so decided if I got up it might be better. hell no just sitting there wanting to kick my legs but too tired to get up and walk UGH! sucks. so all in all SAO are just that short acting. I am thankful for the half life of bupe by I was just shown this week how long that shit really sticks around
 
The reason why percs helped is because 8 mg of sub is still below the ceiling effect, nothing to do with being a partial agonist and don't have anything to worry about precipitated withdrawals because the 5 percs aren't large enough - the 10's can cause medium withdrawals, but the 30's are what cause big ones (of course it is a cumulation of how much over a period of time), but precipitated withdrawals are if your taking a large dose then bupe just hours after.

And I don't trust any of the literature that says nalaxone doesn't do anything, I am already catching disinformation being told and taught about bupe, as if it fits into the category of ancient civilizations and UFOs, lol.
 
That's actually not correct. It isn't the naloxone is suboxone that causes PW's.. it is the buprenorphine itself. Bupe has a much higher binding affinity to your receptors than naloxone does, so the naloxone is basically inactive and a pointless addition to suboxone. Subutex will give you PW's the same as suboxone would, because like I said, it is the bupe that rips the opiates off your receptors, not the naloxone. Since the bupe has such a higher affinity then naloxone, it also is the reason that at high doses, opiates are blocked.

In short, PW's and opiates being blocked are caused by bupe, not naloxone.
This is completly true. I also thought it was naloxone. It's not. Google it.
 
I could not agree with you more in that below 8 mgs is below the ceiling effect as I also put in a previous post about that small of an amount acting as a FULL agonist opiate, therefore not causing wd's when I start taking the bupe again. also agree with you on that the naloxone doesn't do anything, I also believe it does as I have been on the suboxone and subutex for equal amounts of time. I would never take suboxone after taking any other opiate because I do not like to fuck around with suboxone as it does have the naloxone it it and I have felt the wrath of suboxone after another opiate and that DID put me in wd's. your right there is so much mis information that's why I always stress and say to people that its not fact but just my personal experience. thanks for the input :) (this is in reply to the above reply from ROX BTW)
 
Hey thanks, yes I am still learning and I think a lot of the doctors are also unaware since subutex has just been going around for only 11 years for opioid dependence. In some cities it has only been going around for a few years. It is hard to say exactly what is happening at the mu receptors and is admittedly not understood, they are saying it is a partial agonist because of the ceiling effect and also antagonist activity at the kappa receptors, but in the mysterious way buprenorphine works it does appear to act like a full agonist in low doses (high affinity) otherwise it would not be able to save somebody out of oxy withdrawals. It is when you have them talking about buprenorphine and naloxone together saying that it is a partial agonist in reference to suboxone, they always say you cannot feel euphoria from buprenorphine which is completely untrue. There is literally only one website that I found out of many that tells the truth, you won't hear it anywhere.

'Buprenorphine is a derivative of the opioid alkaloid thebaine that is a more potent (25 – 40 times) and longer lasting analgesic than morphine. It appears to act as a partial agonist at mu and kappa opioid receptors and as an antagonist at delta receptors. Its primary actions of therapeutic value are analgesia and sedation. In addition to analgesia...euphoria.' http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00921
 
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