• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe |

Lysergamides Using LSD as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

Does it have synergy with psychedelics? It seems like it from what you say but it's also 5ht2a antagonistic... I wouldn't want to ruin a trip accidentally if it killed my visuals yk?
I've found it to dull visuals when paired with serotonergic psychedelics, but harmaline is an MAOI and acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, so it doesn't share the same mechanism by which it functions. Lotus went well with ketamine and PCP but did dull the visuals to the same degree 10-20mg of Valium would.

I'd argue that the same scale of dulling visuals happened with Miprocin and LSD but not any phenethylamines I tried. It left MDA, MDMA, allylescaline, 25C-NBOMe, DOM and 2C-B completely unscathed for some reason.

Cannabis also helped the visuals to return a bit, which was interesting. Lotus seemed to intensity the psychedelic headspace for some reason, especially with ketamine and PCP.
 
I've found it to dull visuals when paired with serotonergic psychedelics, but harmaline is an MAOI and acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, so it doesn't share the same mechanism by which it functions. Lotus went well with ketamine and PCP but did dull the visuals to the same degree 10-20mg of Valium would.

I'd argue that the same scale of dulling visuals happened with Miprocin and LSD but not any phenethylamines I tried. It left MDA, MDMA, allylescaline, 25C-NBOMe, DOM and 2C-B completely unscathed for some reason.

Cannabis also helped the visuals to return a bit, which was interesting. Lotus seemed to intensity the psychedelic headspace for some reason, especially with ketamine and PCP.
I see. Would you recommend lotus paired with serotonergics or rather should i save it for sedative stacks? (Not that that's harm reduction, lol. But it's a pretty mild one)
 
I see. Would you recommend lotus paired with serotonergics or rather should i save it for sedative stacks? (Not that that's harm reduction, lol. But it's a pretty mild one)
Only with serotonergic phenethylamines in my experience, but if you just dose a tryptamine or lysergamide 1.5-2x higher than you normally would, it works well though in my experience.
 
"The urgent need for clearer guidance is further underscored by recent survey data, illustrating that medication interactions (e.g. ADs) with psychedelics was among the most commonly desired educational topics reported by psychiatrists (Barnett et al., 2022). Secondly, while psilocybin has been relatively well-studied, data for LSD is limited (Becker et al., 2025) and exists primarily for the concomitant use of MAOIs that is also very old (DeMaar et al., 1960; Grof and Dytrych, 1965; Resnick et al., 1964), albeit showing a good safety profile and no signs of serotonin syndrome."

Concomitant use of antidepressants and classic psychedelics: A scoping review. Tap SC, Thomas K, Páleníček T, et al. 2025. Journal of Psychopharmacology, 0(0). doi: 10.1177/02698811251368360 (Discussion)
 
At the time i was experimenting with MAOI's, Syrian Rue to be specific.
I was talking with a friend who convinced me to try a high dose, and how the Rue will make it stronger but more gentle. They were right! I even added 2 decent tabs of LSD to the experience, i assume that's why it was so strong.


Palmer1997, 2025-10-05, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29365155#29365155


Using mescaline as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca
Using ketamine as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca
Using MDMA as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca
Using LSD as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca


 
Last edited:
I did try moclobemide with LSD a few times years ago but didn't notice any effect.
 
Leo Zeff was a fan of this iirc. I fucking love lysergahuasca and made a BL thread about it a while back, I've probably used it 20-50 times total I'd guess? Usually with Banisteriopsis caapi tea or harmaline/tetrahydroharmine extract in gel caps, never tried moclobemide in the first place. The first time I ever did this, I didn't expect cross potentiation and it was my first time with ayahuasca in the first place (That brew was Mimosa hostilis and Peganum harmala), so I dropped 750ug of the cleanest acid I've ever used on top of it. Fuck that was a LOT, but it was one of the most beautiful and healing experiences of my entire life. I also don't know if I have the capacity for a bad trip though, many hundreds deep at this point and they've been resoundingly positive every time, so take my advice here with a grain of salt.

Friends I've administered this shit to have lost their fucking minds. Never permanently, but to the point of being shaken for multiple weeks and not being able to socialize or sleep well, that type of shit. Even one super irondomed dude I watched eat 50 tabs and have a great time lost his goddamn mind after insufflating ~75mg of harmaline in three bumps and taking 325ug.

Imo the safest way to do this is to brew weak caapi tea or to move in 10-15mg insufflated bumps of harmaline, and add it after you take the LSD. It'll still work, it just takes like 45+/-15 minutes for the caapi to come up, and the insufflated harmaline is damn near instant as far as when you begin noticing it, but it finishes kicking in within 5-15 minutes, metabolism dependent it seems.

Another note about it is that it lasts a L O N G time, I'm talking 18-24 hours for most people at 325ug with ~75mg of harmaline. It feels like being in the eye of a hurricane bu in the most peaceful little oasis of tranquility that could possibly exist. If you're not experienced with harmalas/MAOIs, start with those on their own, they're plenty active and the harmala alks are also acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (think galantamine, sinicuichi and noopept) which are anecdotally recognized as consistently potentiating psychs, on top of the MAOI potentiation that's already going on. Harmala nausea is no joke if you dose too high, and keep a benzo on hand if you even have the capacity for a bad trip because this shit is intense in an introspective way that no other psychedelic or combination of them has ever been for me.

I've always been curious about lysergahuasca but the idea of a 24-48 hour acid trip sounds like too much for me, especially if you happen to have a not so great trip happening. The guarantee that it will end in 8-12 hours is the only saving grace. I'm also once of those people who simply can't rest while I'm high. Sleep is impossible, or even just calming my mind. It goes and goes and goes until every neuron feels stripped bare. I think after 48 hours I would be nuts.

How do you handle tripping for that long?
 
I've used this combination maybe 30-50 times all together if I were to hazard a guess. I usually just refer to it as Lysergahuasca. LSA I've tried with harmalas twice and it induced serotonin syndrome both times, but LSD combined beautifully with caapi tea, Syrian rue, pasionflower concentrates that are potent enough to inhibit MAO-A a little bit, pure harmaline (freebase), harmine (HCl I think), tetrahydroharmine freebase, and some full spectrum pulls as well. Normally LSD lasts 9-12 hours I'd guess, but if I potentiate it with anywhere from 125-300mg of total harmala alkaloids, it's lasting 16-36 hours depending on the doses of both the harmalas and the LSD. The experience is significantly more tranquil, with an empathogenic and colorful side to it that feels almost too fast to notice when using LSD on its own. Harmalas are like wise teachers that capture LSD's attention and the trip you take is the lesson that LSD is learning, as it does so.

This combination is uniquely effective for some reason at causing anxious people to bug the fuck out. People I know who've done thumbprints of crystal LSD, people who are involved in higher level trade of lysergamides, all of them run a higher risk of freaking out for some reason, on this mix. It makes LSD feel much "deeper", much more like a significant spiritual or mystical experience. Tetrahydroharmine helps with clarity a lot, and sinicuichi smoked (avoid sun tea, seems to be dangerous) can enhance things. Harmalas can be eaten, drank, insufflated, or vaporized. Be wary of lotus flowers and MAOIs, I've had it induce full on psychedelic experiences that I can't really explain as far as possible pharmacokinetic mechanisms as to why that could even occur.

Im fucking getting some harmala!! 😀
 
Im fucking getting some harmala!! 😀

Consider 6-MeO-harmalan (CAS 3589-73-9).


The isolation of 6-methoxyharmalan and 6-methoxyharman from Virola cuspidata. Cassady, J. M., Blair, G. E., Raffauf, R. F., & Tyler, V. E. 1971. Lloydia, 34(1), 161–162.


"For his study, Markus mixed a representative of the β-Carbolins (harmin, harmalin, or 6-MeO-harmalan) with a tryptamine (5-MeO-DMT). He found a domain of optimal mixtures in which marked psychoactive productivity was associated with hallucinatory effects. Within certain specific ranges of dosage, the mixture was well-tolerated and there were no serious side-effects."

Hanscarl Leuner and Michael Schlichting: "A Report on the Symposium On the Current State of Research in the Area of Psychoactive Substances" / "Synergism between β-Carbolins and Dimethyltryptamines". [The Gateway to Inner Space: A Festschrift in Honor of Albert Hofmann. Christian Rätsch (ed.), 1989. Bridport, England: Prism Press] [page 237] [i.e., Mario Markus]

 
"I’ve smoked DMT numerous times since my first experience, usually in much smaller doses and often combined with LSD and harmaline, which made my experiences with DMT much more meaningful, manageable, and, dare I say, enjoyable."

David Jay Brown. The New Science of Psychedelics. 2013. Chapter 4. Approaching the Singularity / Ayahuasca and the Future
 
"I have seen one article which says LSD may be slightly weakened with coadministration of an maoi. This is completely contridictory to my experience with mao-a inhibitiors like harmala alkaloids when mixed with LSD which neither increased nor decreased the effects of the trip."

PsychonauticResearch, 2025-08-02, h‍ttps://old.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/1mfiqwp/would_piperine_have_an_affect_on_an_lsd_trip/


Sometimes I see people conveying confusion about whether or not MAOIs amplify or diminish the effects of psychedelics. Some people have caught wind of research stating that MAOIs diminish psychedelics and yet there are comments like these ⇩

"I have taken harmala before with mushrooms and it was a happening not to be reckoned with..."

Solipsis, 2014-04-13, https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/harmaline-dmt.719208/post-12271060

"…harder and longer." –Description of the effect of LSD taken with moclobemide (see the first post of this topic)


Here is some info that provides insight into this discrepancy.


Quote:

One class of medications that can have profound psychological effects on the human hallucinogenic response is that of antidepressants. A retrospective study showed that prolonged use (3 weeks or longer) of serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (such as fluoxetine (Prozac)) or MAO inhibitors (such as phenelzine (Nardil)) will significantly reduce or eliminate the hallucinogenic response to hallucinogens like LSD (Bonson et al., 1996; Bonson and Murphy, 1996). In contrast, prolonged use of lithium or tricyclic antidepressants (such as desipramine (Norpramine)) will produce an exacerbation of the hallucinogenic response, often to a very unpleasant degree (Bonson and Murphy, 1996). See also: Serotonin

In contrast, acute (single-dose) administration of antidepressants does not appear to have the same effect. Acute administration of serotonin-reuptake inhibitors or MAO inhibitors, for example, seems to potentiate the response to LSD in humans (Bonson et al., 1996) and in rats (Fiorella et al., 1996). This difference in response, based on duration of antidepressant administration, seems to be related to adaptive changes in serotonin levels, receptors and neurotransmission.

Bonson KR, Buckholtz JW and Murphy DL (1996) Chronic administration of serotonergic antidepressants attenuates the subjective effects of LSD in humans. Neuropsychopharmacology 14(6): 425–436.

Bonson KR and Murphy DL (1996) Alterations in responses to LSD in humans associated with chronic administration of tricyclic antidepressants, monoamine oxidase inhibitors or lithium. Behavioural Brain Research 73(1–2): 229–233.

Fiorella D, Rabin RA and Winter JC (1995) The role of the 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors in the stimulus effects of hallucinogenic drugs. I: Antagonist correlation analysis. Psychopharmacology (Berlin) 121(3): 347–356.

Hallucinogenic Drugs. Katherine R. Bonson. 2012. doi: 10.1002/9780470015902.a0000166.pub2 [eLS. John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.] (Interactions Between Hallucinogens and Other Drugs, page 6)


"The limited data suggest a neurochemical effect of MAO inhibition is as DMT- and LSD-blocker - when MAOI are taken chronically, as used medicinally, so that therapeutic, high serotonin levels are achieved in the brain, both the effects of intramuscularly-injected DMT and oral LSD are inhibited.(9,12)"

Jonathan Ott. Pharmahuasca: On Phenethylamines and Potentiation. MAPS newsletter, Volume 6, Number 3, Summer 1996, 32-34 emphasis added

Emphasis ⇩

"The biochemical effect of MAOI to elevate serotonin and norepinephrine levels occurs rapidly. However, the therapeutic relief of depression requires several weeks of daily treatment."

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (Kevin Happe) in xPharm: The Comprehensive Pharmacology Reference, 2007 (Introduction)
 
Last edited:
"I have seen one article which says LSD may be slightly weakened with coadministration of an maoi. This is completely contridictory to my experience with mao-a inhibitiors like harmala alkaloids when mixed with LSD which neither increased nor decreased the effects of the trip."

PsychonauticResearch, 2025-08-02, h‍ttps://old.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/1mfiqwp/would_piperine_have_an_affect_on_an_lsd_trip/


Sometimes I see people conveying confusion about whether or not MAOIs amplify or diminish the effects of psychedelics. Some people have caught wind of research stating that MAOIs diminish psychedelics and yet there are comments like these ⇩

"I have taken harmala before with mushrooms and it was a happening not to be reckoned with..."

Solipsis, 2014-04-13, https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/harmaline-dmt.719208/post-12271060

"…harder and longer." –Description of the effect of LSD taken with moclobemide (see the first post of this topic)


Here is some info that provides insight into this discrepancy. Also includes some insight into the difference between reversible and irreversible MAOIs.


Quote:

One class of medications that can have profound psychological effects on the human hallucinogenic response is that of antidepressants. A retrospective study showed that prolonged use (3 weeks or longer) of serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (such as fluoxetine (Prozac)) or MAO inhibitors (such as phenelzine (Nardil)) will significantly reduce or eliminate the hallucinogenic response to hallucinogens like LSD (Bonson et al., 1996; Bonson and Murphy, 1996). In contrast, prolonged use of lithium or tricyclic antidepressants (such as desipramine (Norpramine)) will produce an exacerbation of the hallucinogenic response, often to a very unpleasant degree (Bonson and Murphy, 1996). See also: Serotonin

In contrast, acute (single-dose) administration of antidepressants does not appear to have the same effect. Acute administration of serotonin-reuptake inhibitors or MAO inhibitors, for example, seems to potentiate the response to LSD in humans (Bonson et al., 1996) and in rats (Fiorella et al., 1996). This difference in response, based on duration of antidepressant administration, seems to be related to adaptive changes in serotonin levels, receptors and neurotransmission.

Bonson KR, Buckholtz JW and Murphy DL (1996) Chronic administration of serotonergic antidepressants attenuates the subjective effects of LSD in humans. Neuropsychopharmacology 14(6): 425–436.

Bonson KR and Murphy DL (1996) Alterations in responses to LSD in humans associated with chronic administration of tricyclic antidepressants, monoamine oxidase inhibitors or lithium. Behavioural Brain Research 73(1–2): 229–233.

Fiorella D, Rabin RA and Winter JC (1995) The role of the 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors in the stimulus effects of hallucinogenic drugs. I: Antagonist correlation analysis. Psychopharmacology (Berlin) 121(3): 347–356.

Hallucinogenic Drugs. Katherine R. Bonson. 2012. doi: 10.1002/9780470015902.a0000166.pub2 [eLS. John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.] (Interactions Between Hallucinogens and Other Drugs, page 6)


"The limited data suggest a neurochemical effect of MAO inhibition is as DMT- and LSD-blocker - when MAOI are taken chronically, as used medicinally, so that therapeutic, high serotonin levels are achieved in the brain, both the effects of intramuscularly-injected DMT and oral LSD are inhibited.(9,12)"

Jonathan Ott. Pharmahuasca: On Phenethylamines and Potentiation. MAPS newsletter, Volume 6, Number 3, Summer 1996, 32-34 emphasis added

Emphasis ⇩

"The biochemical effect of MAOI to elevate serotonin and norepinephrine levels occurs rapidly. However, the therapeutic relief of depression requires several weeks of daily treatment."

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (Kevin Happe) in xPharm: The Comprehensive Pharmacology Reference, 2007 (Introduction)
Anecdotal and personal experience - Harmalas definitely potentiate mushrooms, DMT, etc. Although they seem to make things less "bright" especially at lower doses

Anecdotal - LSD (maybe Mescaline), a mixed bag with some saying there is potentiation and some not. Some reports I have seen say that the somatic side effects are potentiated and the psychedelic to a lesser degree or not at all. This makes sense to me and would be my SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess)
 
Top