Opioids Using Loperamide to combat methadone withdrawal?

[candykane]

wait a minute, r u talkina bout that nasty chalky liquid stuff,that your mother gives u for upset stomach?whats that going to do? do u use the liquid or the pill form,if there is such a thing,i know petobismal(the pink stuff)has a pillform,what about the white stuff?

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

Sorry I haven't replied yet, I'm just away right now. I'll try to post later when I have access to a computer. Sorry for the delay and hang in there

I am doing much better! Thank you for your help! The increase of Lyrica and Gabapentin really helped. I just hope I dont get a new habbit?
When you do get a chance I would really appreciate if you know what vitamins/supplements might help for my lyrica will run out Wednesday. Love always, KICKIT

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

hi, new here, been reading 4 awhile, okay i got the kratom,the pods i took my last 5mgs metadone yesterday, about 4 pm, i tapered from 10 mgs for about a week,should i wait to try the kratom,i feel crappy frm the taper, but not too bad.

i hate to be sick! i hate myself! i hate dirty dishes! i hate dirty clothes! i hate just sitting here,i hate tv!

wait a minute, r u talkina bout that nasty chalky liquid stuff,that your mother gives u for upset stomach?whats that going to do? do u use the liquid or the pill form,if there is such a thing,i know petobismal(the pink stuff)has a pillform,what about the white stuff?

I started my kratom as soon as I was sick. It gave me energy (some) and gave me a better attitude. I started out taking 3grams every three hours at a time until I felt better. The first day of kratom I had took about 7grams at once. I would not take more than that because I did not want any nausea. I dont know what pods are unless they are poppy pods and that would be to taper, maintenance, or to get high. This is my first and last taper detox so I am new at this. But I have done a little research.

Everyone hates being sick! Especially me. I am a weak person and I would not be able to get this far without the help of this site and the people on it especially Swimmingdancer!

I am not sure what you mean about the liquid stuff. If you are talking about loperamide the active ingredient in Immodium then you can get pills. I got 350 caps at sams for about six bucks. Although I do not recomend sams or wallmart because they have ruined all the mom and pop stores in my town and many others. I dont think it would hurt to get one bottle of loperamide though.

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

I know this may sound stupid but I am switching back to kratom at very low dose of 2 grams three times daily and I will taper .2 grams every two days until I am down to nothing. I just want to save my Lyrica and Gabapentin for kicking my benzo habbit because I told my doctor I only needed a one month supply not knowing it helps to stop benzos.

I feel so much better everyday! I still wake up soaking in sweat and in agonizing pain (I fell off a roof when I was 18 or 19? I am 30yrs old now). I am just going to have to deal with the pain. That is way better than being in pain and in withdrawal. So once I am done with the kratom taper I will wait about a month or two to make sure everything is out of my system. Then kick the the benzo habit with the same drugs hopefully
KICKIT

 

[BlueHues]

I keep bringing up the combo of clonidine, hydoxyzine and Ibuprofen.....These are very effective when taken together for treating the Wds.....

Maybe you could ask for a script of hydroxyzine, which is a anxiolytic antihistamine, and clonidine....

You wouldn't have to take them everyday, just when it became unbearable....I think it would help a lot, and given your situation and the low abuse potential of these drugs, you should be able to get them....

although you probably are aware of these SD, just thought I'd mention it....

I plan on trying Loperamide when I get low on Subxone....7 weeks ago I was off opiates, and now I'm tapering again

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

I keep bringing up the combo of clonidine, hydoxyzine and Ibuprofen.....These are very effective when taken together for treating the Wds.....

Maybe you could ask for a script of hydroxyzine, which is a anxiolytic antihistamine, and clonidine....

You wouldn't have to take them everyday, just when it became unbearable....I think it would help a lot, and given your situation and the low abuse potential of these drugs, you should be able to get them....

Thank you for your help! I am not sure what each of those do but I will do some research. I think I am almost done with the acute withdrawal and am going into PAWS so Thats my delema right now. I also need to find out how much they cost. My doctor will give me whatever I want because he knows I am trying to stop everything as painless as possible. My drug days are over for I have a family and need to better my life for me and them.
KICKIT

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

No, my original post was from a long time ago. I have since quit taking methadone but am still dealing with PAWS. Someone bumped the thread earlier today and then you asked if I had any updates

I was wondering do you still have PAWS? If not about how long did it take to subside?
KICKIT

 

[BlueHues]

Thank you for your help! I am not sure what each of those do but I will do some research. I think I am almost done with the acute withdrawal and am going into PAWS so Thats my delema right now. I also need to find out how much they cost. My doctor will give me whatever I want because he knows I am trying to stop everything as painless as possible. My drug days are over for I have a family and need to better my life for me and them.
KICKIT

I actually wouldn't recommend those drugs for what you're going through, although they do use hydroxyzine/visteril for benzo WDs, and clonidine could pontentially help with Kratom withdrawals I suppose....so IDK...If you're still taking benzos though and lyrica and neurontin or whatever else, I have no idea whether or not they'd help you....

I was actually recommending that SwimmingDancer look into them for PAWS....

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

I actually wouldn't recommend those drugs for what you're going through, although they do use hydroxyzine/visteril for benzo WDs, and clonidine could pontentially help with Kratom withdrawals I suppose....so IDK...If you're still taking benzos though and lyrica and neurontin or whatever else, I have no idea whether or not they'd help you....

I was actually recommending that SwimmingDanver look into them for PAWS....

I have quit everything except the kratom and the benzos. I am at a very low dose of kratom. I take one gram about five times daily. I will drop it .2 grams every 2 days until I get down to nothing. I dont think I will notice any wd from that and if I do I know Its nothing compared to the methadone wd. I have been taking my benzos as prescribed but as of tomorrow I am going to start my benzo taper. I can taper down my benzos fast but I get stuck at a low dose. I am going to wait until my kratom taper is done and two month later I am going to try and kick the benzos with the same drugs I hope. I do have an appointment tomorrow with my doctor so I wil try to get some clonidine to stop feeling any acute if I have any. I will also get hydroxyzine/visteril for when I try to kick the benzos. About in two months.
Thank you, KICKIT

 

[Swimmingdancer]

KICTIT - I am back, sorry for neglecting you

How are you doing now? That's awesome that you have been able to reduce everything to a low dose of kratom and benzos. Your plan sounds solid to me. I don't know if you still have any questions for me?

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

^ If you dont mind I do have a couple?
I am saving my Gabapentin an Lyrica for PAWS. I am down to 2.5grams of kratom 3 times daily. I have dropped .5grams every couple days. I am hoping I can taper like this to nothing and have no withdrawal. I did take the Lyrica and Gabapentin in a higher dose and it alleviated all of my symptoms. The reason I quit taking them is I read they can be worse than a benzo withdrawal and it can take only one month (rare) to get a habbit.

So my questions if you dont mind are how long did PAWS last for you, or are you still having symptoms?
Did you take Gabapentin and or Lyrica, if so how long, and did you have withdrawal from them?

I cant thank you enough for your help! I am the person I used to be. I know I still have a long way to go but I would'nt have been able to do this without your help. Just knowing and talking (typing) with some one who has had a similar experience made me know this addiction can be stopped by knowledge and help.You may have saved my life and my childrens father because I was suicidal over this pill addiction. I will do my best to pass on what I have learned and give hope and positive energy to everyone I can!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^I'm glad you are feeling more positive

So, physical dependence to gabapentin or pregabalin (Lyrica), like any drug, greatly depends on the person, the dose they are taking, how often they take it, and their history with other drugs. It is very unusual for someone to have severe drawn-out withdrawals after only taking normal doses of gabapentin for one month but there is one person on here who says that is what happened to them. It seems to be more likely if you have been addicted to benzos before. And pregabalin seems to cause more/faster dependence than gabapentin. Stopping opioids + benzos + gabapentin/pregabalin (if the person has been taking it daily for a while) all really close to the same time would be a bad idea. I think it is very wise to only use your gabapentin or pregabalin when you really need it and try not to take it too many times a day when you do take it. Since you already take benzos and are hoping to get off them that is another good reason to limit your use of gabapentin/pregabalin. Don't take them too often and use the lowest doses needed, but don't obsess over possible withdrawals either - it's easy to convince onself you are getting withdrawal symptoms if withdrawal symptoms are what you expect. And I do think that when someone takes gabapentin to help quit opioids and benzos it can be hard to know for sure what is even causing their symptoms.

I used gabapentin to help with my methadone withdrawal. I started taking it before I even stopped the methadone completely, as I had already been really sick and in pain for a long time, ever since I'd tapered the methadone below a certain dose. I began by only taking the gabapentin once a day most days (usually, there was a period when I was taking it more times a day) and sometimes not taking it at all, I did this for quite a while and if I didn't take the gabapentin for a few days I didn't notice any withdrawals that couldn't easily be attributed to the methadone. I switched from the methadone to a low dose of oral morphine. Switching from the methadone to the morphine was hard and I took more gabapentin during that time. Then as my body adjusted (although I still felt like crap and in pain I wasn't having severe acute withdrawals anymore) I took less gabapentin again. Then I tapered off the morphine and still got bad withdrawal symptoms after that, so during the time when I had gotten down to a very low dose of the morphine and after I stopped it completely I started taking lots of gabapentin 3 times a day. I am now tapering off the gabapentin. I have been tapering it quite fast and I also stopped taking benzos and z-drugs, but I was never perceptibly physically dependent on those. If you are physically dependent on benzos (or have been in the past) it may be worse for you. I don't feel good, but I've been tapering the gabapentin really fast - from 3000mg/day to 300mg/day in about a week. I am certainly not having seizures or freaking out or anything. I think my brain/body are just stressed from stopping opioids after 15 years of daily high-dose use and then taking a bunch of gabapentin and benzos for a few months to help with that and rapidly tapering those (my benzo use was much more on and off than the gabapentin though). I think I am mostly still having PAWS from the methadone honestly. I would not advise others to do what I did, I would have done things differently in retrospect (especially I would not have spent so long slowly tapering the methadone), and my situation is individual and doesn't necessarily apply to others. People who have not been on methadone for 10 years like me, for example, are not going to have nearly as hard a time as me. And other people may get dependent on benzos or gabapentin easier (I was only taking low benzo doses and not every day most of the time except for the 2 periods I mentioned when my opioid WDs were most severe) so I would recommend practicing as much restraint as possible. To me it was worth the risks because I felt like I was in a life or death situation - either get off the methadone and do/take whatever necessary to enable me to do that, kill myself, or give up and go back to using IV heroin.

I guess I must be feeling better in some ways since I am now able to taper the gabapentin and stop the other drugs, and I'm not a sobbing hopeless mess. I can only wait and see how I feel after I'm off the gabapentin completely.

For you, I think that the risk of dependence to gabapentin might be higher than for me, as I said before. Also I am not off it completely yet so who knows how I'll feel then. But honestly gabapentin was causing me so many side effects that in some ways lowering my dose is making me feel a bit better.

And don't assume you will have long-lasting PAWS from methadone, everyone's so different and your health, mental health, lifestyle and how long you have been on opioids have a lot to do with it. Some people start feeling a lot better a few weeks after they stop it.

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

^ Thank you that helps a lot! That is what I am doing trying not to take either the pregabalin or gabapentin (although I will if the symptoms get bad which are not that bad. Just spells of chills, sweats, and leg pain that started my whole addiction.). Unfortanately I have been on benzos before my opiate addiction because I tend to worry about stuff I shoud'nt and then I start to sweat and shake especially around strangers. I think that was a normal anxiety dissorder whatever normal means. I am still taking the krato once or twice a day at 2 grams and I am going to drop .5grams again tomorrow. Some days I wake up in wthdrawal and take a small dose of kratom and if it continues I will take 50-100mg pregabalin or 200-400mg gabapentin and my symptoms are gone. I also dont need my benzos when I take them. I think I am past the acute phase and now dealing with paws. I started Vicodin 7.5mg when I was 18 (now 30yrs old) moved to oxycodone 80mg anywhere from 1 to five a day (my friends were writing their own prescriptions) just one year later. That lasted about a year then I graduated to dope using about .5grams a day iv. I maintained without anyone knowing up until five years ago so I started the methadone maintenance and could not ge past 30mg because I would wake up sick everyday. Now I am here after ten years of hard opiate addiction and am just curious when was your last opiate dose and are your symptoms tolerable? I see that you have had a hard time with paws and am just curious the possible length it can last. I am trying to be optimistic but some days are worse than others so I was wondering the worst length of paws just in case. Like you said I dont think it will be that bad for me seeing as I am doing so much better. My head is so much more clear now I just hate these symptoms of fatigue. I could take more meds but that is what I am trying to stop (all chemicals). Thank you again for I would never have made it this far without you

Also if you can give me a list of vitamins/supplements that helped you or anyone else that would help too.

 

[OpiKing333]

Lope helps opioid withdrawal!

U just have to take equal mgs of lope cpmpared to ur normal opioid dose. 80mg=80mg lope. Lot of pills but works

 

[Swimmingdancer]

curious when was your last opiate dose and are your symptoms tolerable? I see that you have had a hard time with paws and am just curious the possible length it can last. I am trying to be optimistic but some days are worse than others so I was wondering the worst length of paws just in case. Like you said I dont think it will be that bad for me seeing as I am doing so much better.

I guess it's been a few months since I stopped the methadone and about a month since I stopped all opioids completely. But between that time I was just taking super low doses of oral morphine which didn't even alleviate the methadone withdrawal.

And I've had withdrawals for like a year, ever since my methadone got below a certain dose, so I think that slow taper has screwed me up a lot. I still have chronic diarrhea, heightened sensitivity to pain and temperature (especially cold, feeling too cold will actually give me withdrawal symptoms like yawning, runny nose, etc), random excessive sneezing and coughing, extreme fatigue and lack of motivation, aches and pains, headaches, difficulty sleeping, etc. I think that conditioning is very powerful and I feel noticeably better, at least mood-wise, if I am in a hot sunny different place or doing something new and exciting that distracts me, but unfortunately I can afford to just travel to hot sunny places all the time and it's grey and dark and cold where I live, plus my brain subconsciously associates where I live with being sick. So I think environment and lifestyle can make a significant difference.

As to how long PAWS can last, well it depends on how exactly you define PAWS and on the person. Some people feel great in a month, some people say they waited years and still didn't feel "normal" or happy. So don't worry about the unknown, it's pointless. And keep doing things to help yourself.

I can definitely see a difference between how I feel now and how I felt a month ago, but it is not improving as fast as I'd like and a big part of my impatience is because I've already been sick for so long.

My head is so much more clear now I just hate these symptoms of fatigue. I could take more meds but that is what I am trying to stop (all chemicals). Thank you again for I would never have made it this far without you

Well benzos and gabapentin/pregabalin don't tend to help with the fatigue (although gabapentin/pregabalin can be a little stimulating at times they can also be sedating and make you feel foggy or zombie-like, they are such weird drugs). Drug options suggested for combating fatigue and depression/lack of motivation etc are things like dextroamphetamine or bupropion, and I am nervous to take either of those right now as they can worsen anxiety and insomnia, so I just want to see what happens when I give my body some time with no drugs at all. Sounds like you have the same goal.

And no problem, it is helpful for me to share my experiences with others

Also if you can give me a list of vitamins/supplements that helped you or anyone else that would help too.

Vit D3 (lots)
Omega 3s (like fish oil, or flax seed oil if you're vegetarian, but make sure you get a good one and take lots)
L-Lysine (can potentiate benzos a bit so be aware of that)
L-Glutamine
Chelated magnesium (chelated magnesium is better absorbed and less laxative than regular magnesium, but if you find you get diarrhea lower the dose)
Potassium
Zinc

Some other things you could try:
Ashwagandha
Rhodiola
L-Phenylalanine
5-HTP
Vit C
Vit A
Kava

If you want you could tell me exactly what your symptoms are, including things you don't think are associated with stopping methadone, and I can better recommend specific supplements tailored to your individual needs and give you an idea about doses.

U just have to take equal mgs of lope cpmpared to ur normal opioid dose. 80mg=80mg lope. Lot of pills but works

That makes no sense at all. Doses completely depend on the opioid and the person.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Canada. I am taking methadone tablets (which is very rare here), which I get from the pharmacy once a week. I am allowed to lower my dose as I see fit.

Suboxone is available here, but I don't personally want to try it. For one, no way in hell could I go 3 days without taking any methadone in preparation for going on Suboxone. For 2, I don't want to risk still getting precipitated withdrawals (which can happen with switching from methadone to Suboxone even after stopping the methadone for 3 days - everyone is different). For 3, I don't want to risk any potential side effects from Suboxone, nor do I want to be taking Naloxone into my body. For 4, I am worried about going to all that trouble transitioning to Suboxone and then if I don't like it I have to go cold-turkey again for several days before I can even start back on methadone. And for 5, I have heard that some people have almost as much trouble getting off Suboxone as methadone. It's definitely something I've considered thoroughly, but it just doesn't seem worth it to me

Hello canadian bro, I just want to tell you that the current plan I have with my methadone doc is to switch me to suboxone when i am around 25-30mg of methadone, so it will be in a while considering i drop my dosage by 2-3mg every 3 weeks. But there's one thing you should know, naloxone does absolutely nothing in suboxone, it might as well be subutex, even when people bang them, the naloxone doesnt bind strongly enough to dislodge the bupe. Hope this helps.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Hello canadian bro, I just want to tell you that the current plan I have with my methadone doc is to switch me to suboxone when i am around 25-30mg of methadone, so it will be in a while considering i drop my dosage by 2-3mg every 3 weeks. But there's one thing you should know, naloxone does absolutely nothing in suboxone, it might as well be subutex, even when people bang them, the naloxone doesnt bind strongly enough to dislodge the bupe. Hope this helps.

Oh I know that it's just a myth that the naloxone is the part of Suboxone causes precipitated withdrawals and that bupe has a higher binding affinity. Also I made this thread a long time ago and I am off methadone now anyway. I just meant I disliked that Suboxone was my only choice and not Subutex because I don't want to take naloxone unnecessarily. Naloxone doesn't necessarily do NOTHING whatsoever, it's still an additional drug that is in your body. Some people do seem to report a difference in effects/side effects. Mostly I just meant I objected to the naloxone on principle. I think it's ridiculous that people are forced to take it for a fake reason, (that it supposedly prevents you from injecting the pills, which it does not).

 

[i are spectre]

U just have to take equal mgs of lope cpmpared to ur normal opioid dose. 80mg=80mg lope. Lot of pills but works

i disagree. 24mg is the maximum i would ever suggest. after that youre just prolonging or even INCREASING your upcoming and INEVITABLE withdrawal.

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

Hello canadian bro, I just want to tell you that the current plan I have with my methadone doc is to switch me to suboxone when i am around 25-30mg of methadone, so it will be in a while considering i drop my dosage by 2-3mg every 3 weeks. But there's one thing you should know, naloxone does absolutely nothing in suboxone, it might as well be subutex, even when people bang them, the naloxone doesnt bind strongly enough to dislodge the bupe. Hope this helps.

IMHO you might not want to do that! I was at 30mg methadone and was going to jump to buprenorphine (suboxone) under a doctors supervision. I was over 42 hrs past my last dose so I was sicker than a dog (so I thought). He gave me a half an eight mg tab sublingual 15 minutes later it felt like I got a shot of narcan. nalone, naloxone or whatever its called. That little 4mg threw me into the worst withdrawal I have ever had. I remember saying I am going to throw up and then I woke up one day later in the hospital. I don't know if you have ever shot dope and got that rush but it is the total opposite. I swear you can feel your receptors get sucked clean of all opiates. All I have to say is do some research and be very careful. I did not and had to suffer because of my ignorance.

Also I think Buprenorphine binds just as hard to your receptors as methadone. It is really easy to taper down (with Suboxone) to a small amount fast but very hard to stop the lowest dosage they sell.

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

i disagree. 24mg is the maximum i would ever suggest. after that youre just prolonging or even INCREASING your upcoming and INEVITABLE withdrawal.

I would only suggest taking what the bottle says. Although my first five days of methadone withdrawal I was taking 20mg at a time until I felt better. I had to wait 4hrs for each dose to work. I think I ended up at about 80mg my first day and down to 20mg on day five. I know this prolonged my withdrawal but I would rather have a little pain for awhile then a lot for awhile. This was me I don't recommend this to anyone!

I live by Houghton lake. I am moving near Traverse City next week. lol