Opioids Using Loperamide to combat methadone withdrawal?

[Swimmingdancer]

Note: This is an old thread, I have since quit methadone and didn't personally find loperamide helpful in doing so, although many others do. The thread has turned into a discussion of a number of related issues so if you are going to reply note that I am no longer personally needing advice on loperamide -SD.

I haven't been able to find any recent threads on this topic (and the ones I have seen are mostly people saying anyone who experiences opiate-like effects from Loperamide is lying and that it doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier, which is untrue and I've read lots of papers on the topic so please do your research before you post that myth). But if there are some good threads about Loperamide and opioid withdrawal already please point them out

I am currently trying to get off methadone and have been gradually tapering my dose. I started off taking 50mg every 12 hours and have recently got it all the way down to 4mg every 12 hrs. Unfortunately the withdrawal symptoms seem to just be getting worse and worse and the methadone lasting a shorter and shorter length of time. Likely worsened by the fact that I've been on methadone for 10 years and I am a "fast metabolizer". Obviously it's not as unbearable as just quitting cold-turkey without any tapering, otherwise I'd just do that and get it over with, but it's still miserable and I am sick all the time and barely able to function. I am interested in knowing if anyone has used Loperamide to help with opioid withdrawal, whether it helped, how much you took, what your success rate was, etc. If anyone has any other tips they would be welcomed as well (I don't have access to any other prescription meds except Tylenol with Codeine, which I haven't been taking). I tried Kratom before but it didn't seem to help.

I know that some things are supposed to help Loperamide to affect the brain and the Central Nervous System more by inhibiting the protein which normally quickly removes Loperamide from the brain. These include tonic water, grapefruit juice, garlic, green tea and black pepper. I'm kind of skeptical about how much difference they will really make because there are also things that are supposed to make methadone stronger or last longer by inhibiting enzymes (such as grapefruit juice), and I haven't found them to make a noticeable difference. I read one study that said that grapefruit juice increases methadone's effects by about 1% or less on average, although some people on this forum swear by it. What do people suggest? Has anyone had any adverse effects from taking a lot of Loperamide and/or taking it for a long-ish period of time?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[80mg]

Hi,

You may want to get your internet helmet and dig in the trenches. The flame war, denial, and personal bias flame war is about to BEGIN

I did it with bupe. I went from 3mg a day to taking 8mg a day of lop with LOTS of pepper. Lots. To help it cross the BBB. It worked A LITTLE and I felt BETTER. But methadone is alot stronger.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Thanks 80mg, that gives me hope at least that it helped you. I am armed with plenty of links so I'm not too worried if anyone wants to start saying lope can't do anything
I've read that some people take like 100mg+ of loperamide a day to replace opiates, which seems kinda scary and not worth it to me. I really don't want to take that much. I tried taking 8mg earlier (just on it's own) and it seems to have helped a tiny bit. Did you find the lope constipating when you took it? I have been having chronic diarrhea from the methadone WD, so I'm not too worried it will cause constipation in me (at low doses at least), but I really don't want that either. Also did you have any symptoms when you stopped taking the lope?
Thanks.

 

[served00]

It DEFINITELY works for me. I take anywhere from as little as 10mg to as high as 30mg, depending on how hard I am withdrawling. It has never not worked in taking away 80%+ of my w/d's. The only downside is you wont shit for a couple days.

Considering that you need a lot of the 2mg pills, buying a 12 or 24 pack for around $5 isnt reasonable. I just bought my current bottle I have from walmart....72 count 2mg tabs for $3.99

 

[served00]

It also takes 1-2 hours to fully kick in, so be patient when waiting for it to work its magic.

 

[served00]

And also considering the fact that you are w/d from methadone, you may need to take a lot of these pills, like 50-60mg. Split the total amount youre going to take in half and take them seperately by around an hour in between so your body can correctly digest the high number of pills.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Thanks for the advice I guess I will start off taking about 8mg a couple times a day and gradually raise it to find how much I need. I just want to be able to function, I don't need to feel great. What drug were you withdrawing from served00? Heroin? And are you in the US? I am not so I'm not sure if I can get lope that cheap, (but considering I pay $10/day for my methadone it's not that big a deal if I have to spend $10/day on lope for a while).

 

[served00]

Yes I live in the Southern California. And yes, it will do just what you said, make you able to function, it will not get you high or have any significant mood lift or anything like that. It's just a godsend when you can't find any other opiods to use or you are low on cash and can't afford anything (which is usually my dilemma)

I've used it to withdrawal from hydrocodone, oxycodone, oxymorphon and heroin. All at different times.

 

[served00]

Where are you from? How is your methadone dispensed to you? And, is buperenorphine an option for you?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Canada. I am taking methadone tablets (which is very rare here), which I get from the pharmacy once a week. I am allowed to lower my dose as I see fit.

Suboxone is available here, but I don't personally want to try it. For one, no way in hell could I go 3 days without taking any methadone in preparation for going on Suboxone. For 2, I don't want to risk still getting precipitated withdrawals (which can happen with switching from methadone to Suboxone even after stopping the methadone for 3 days - everyone is different). For 3, I don't want to risk any potential side effects from Suboxone, nor do I want to be taking Naloxone into my body. For 4, I am worried about going to all that trouble transitioning to Suboxone and then if I don't like it I have to go cold-turkey again for several days before I can even start back on methadone. And for 5, I have heard that some people have almost as much trouble getting off Suboxone as methadone. It's definitely something I've considered thoroughly, but it just doesn't seem worth it to me

 

[80mg]

100mg + a day? Goddamn...thats ALOT of Immodium


Why not try to buy a suboxone? And why is your methadone getting cut off so fast? What mg's you take a day?

 

[80mg]

Thanks 80mg, that gives me hope at least that it helped you. I am armed with plenty of links so I'm not too worried if anyone wants to start saying lope can't do anything
I've read that some people take like 100mg+ of loperamide a day to replace opiates, which seems kinda scary and not worth it to me. I really don't want to take that much. I tried taking 8mg earlier (just on it's own) and it seems to have helped a tiny bit. Did you find the lope constipating when you took it? I have been having chronic diarrhea from the methadone WD, so I'm not too worried it will cause constipation in me (at low doses at least), but I really don't want that either. Also did you have any symptoms when you stopped taking the lope?
Thanks.

As for the constipation...honestly...not really. I mean opiates are VERY strong anti dirreahs. So coming off a narcotic onto a semi half assedo piate of sorts I was shittingm y brains out. Then again I only took 8mg's a day.

 

[rob007]

when i was trying to kick dope Cold for a few days, i tried to replace it with Loperamide. i sniffed about 1-1.5 bundles a day prior to this(each bag about 100mgs of oxy strength). i took about 100mgs of Lope at 3am. fell asleep and woke up at 8 for work. I felt shitty, eyes red, tired, sore. but not in complete withdrawals. i got through the whole day. it was odd but i managed to get through work. i was not throwing up and shitting all over the place.

i was uncomfortable but i managed through a few days of this until i decided to use oxycontin to help me taper my dosage down. thank god for the OP formula so i did not bother to abuse it. this is a perfect oppertunity for me to kick as i am going on a plane trip next week and i dont want to be bed written on vacation with my wife!

i wish you luck. loperamide has helped me before. even with a small 100mg of oxy a day. but i used like 12mgs at those times.

 

[Nib]

Kratom will help tremendously if you find a good source.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Why not try to buy a suboxone? And why is your methadone getting cut off so fast? What mg's you take a day?

I already answered those questions above

RE: Suboxone -

Suboxone is available here, but I don't personally want to try it. For one, no way in hell could I go 3 days without taking any methadone in preparation for going on Suboxone. For 2, I don't want to risk still getting precipitated withdrawals (which can happen with switching from methadone to Suboxone even after stopping the methadone for 3 days - everyone is different). For 3, I don't want to risk any potential side effects from Suboxone, nor do I want to be taking Naloxone into my body. For 4, I am worried about going to all that trouble transitioning to Suboxone and then if I don't like it I have to go cold-turkey again for several days before I can even start back on methadone. And for 5, I have heard that some people have almost as much trouble getting off Suboxone as methadone. It's definitely something I've considered thoroughly, but it just doesn't seem worth it to me

RE: My dosage -

I have been gradually tapering my dose. I started off taking 50mg every 12 hours and have recently got it all the way down to 4mg every 12 hrs. Unfortunately the withdrawal symptoms seem to just be getting worse and worse and the methadone lasting a shorter and shorter length of time. Likely worsened by the fact that I've been on methadone for 10 years and I am a "fast metabolizer".

I am not getting cut off my methadone quickly, as I said, I am able to control my dosage. I have been slowly lowering it for the past 6 months to get all the way down to 4mg/ every 12 hrs where I am now. After I got below about 20mg/ every 12 hrs I started just feeling sick almost all the time. My doctor says this is very common and tapering it even more slowly won't help at all. I feel completely miserable on 4mg.

this is a perfect oppertunity for me to kick as i am going on a plane trip next week and i dont want to be bed written on vacation with my wife!

i wish you luck. loperamide has helped me before. even with a small 100mg of oxy a day.

Thanks! I wish you the best of luck too! Glad to know that loperamide has helped some people, it gives me hope. I took 8mg earlier and it does seem to be helping a little bit.

Kratom will help tremendously if you find a good source.

I tried Kratom before and it didn't seem to help at all. It's possible that it may have not been great stuff but I just kept taking more and more and felt worse if anything. I have heard that it's not as effective for people coming off methadone compared to other opiates, and that it also may not be as helpful if you are still taking some methadone as opposed to quitting cold turkey, (as it can make the methadone less effective) so maybe that is the problem?

 

[rick1234321]

Ok I just want all of.those people with loperamide doubts to know that it COMPLETELY took all of my methadone withdrawals away!!
I have been taking 45mg methadone for about 6months now, and after some issues was unable to acquire it, and after 3 days of suffering, i read up on loperamide, went to the store, and bought a box of 42...
Mind you i had to take all 42 of them for it to do anything (i previously tried 20 pills and it didnt work too well), but about 2 hours after taking 42 i was in COMPLETE shock... unbeleivable

 

[crzydiamond]

I detoxed methadone about 10 years ago. I had been on it for 6 years, doses ranging from 75-95 for maintenance. Igot tired of being dependent on it so decided to come down slowly, like 3 mg/week. I didn't notice at all until under 20 mg. And I didn't get sick until I hit 4. At that point I had to stop detoxing and let my body readjust. Because I was coming down every week (1mg/wk once I got to 10 mg), but methadone when built up takes longer than that week to leave the body in similar amounts...I found several times during that detox I had to stop and let my body readjust at the current dose before I could go down more. If you are sick, I strongly recommend going UP a few mgs. Until you feel somewhat normal. Stabilize there for a few weeks. THEN resume the detox. Go down a mg or two and see how you feel

On the loperamide subject. I have found it to take away about 75-80% of my wd symptoms. But I didn't use that coming of methadone, I have used that when dope sick with nothing or to try to come off h, oxy, or Fent.

Good luck. Remember, you don't have to rush it. Stabilizing made a HUGE difference in my ability to get off methadone painlessly. (I have also detoxed it cold turkey, another story, and one I DON'T recommend).

 

[Chaotics]

I introduced myself in other post, I signed up for this thread I usually remain a lurker but felt the need to give my 2 cents even though they aren't worth 2 cents.

I have been on a methadone maintenance program for going on 3 years, I tapered down to about 50mg a day from 175mg a day. I have tried everything known to man and some more to ease WD from meth, it is a god awful feeling. The thing that I think affects me most is the restlessness and RLS like crazy.

Contrary to people's belief that Lope is all a placebo this is just not correct, I am on a very high mg of it granted, 150mg to be exact and I have no withdrawals at all. I have energy, the aches I had subsided enough, runny nose gone, chills gone, but more importantly the RLS is gone. I am on my second day of lope dosing, and on my 3rd day no meth. I do not recommend this dosage for I am not a doctor. what works for me may not work for you, but I am tired of people saying lope is a placebo. There is literally a few hundred thousand posts about people experiencing opiate like benefits. Granted it taken by itself doesnt cross the BBB but you do indeed get similar effects. My regiment that seems to work for me is 150mg Lope every 8 hours, in combination with 1000mg of Naprox, and 600mg Quidine to boost the lope. As said in several article on how to make is bypass the BBB.

Too the people saying Lope is all in the head, simple numbers proves you are not correct. Research it not just what people are saying look at the articles from Hazelton Research, Harvard Med, FDA choose whichever. 600MG combine with 18mg of Lope done in case study shows constriction of respiratory. and proves you are indeed wrong. Again I am not a doctor, I do not claim to be. I do have a degree in advchem. and I love research. Dare to try and prove me wrong you will lose.

 

[Crazyeighths]

I've used it for both oxymorphone and heroin withdrawal. I had serious habits with both, and experienced severe withdrawal. Yes, you have to take a disturbingly high amount, but that is because of the low percentage of lope that crosses the BBB. Unless your withdrawals are minor, constipation should be no issue as the diarrhea will persevere.
Keep in mind that lope is not a miracle drug; you will not magically feel great again. However, it is an invaluable resource for those looking to soften the blow of opiate withdrawal. IME it has little effect on the mental symptoms, but can work wonders on the physical symptoms.
All-in-all, lope won't make you 100% better, but will get you well on your way. Personally, I like adding benzos and some pot, but that's just my personal preference. Anything that helps with anxiety/depression is good.

 

[Mass08]

Swimmingdancer any updates? Based off what everyone has said it looks like you should try a high dose of lope since your going to be using it to combat methadone withdrawals which we all know are the absolute worst. period. My personal experience was that it really didn't do much for my heroin withdrawals but I was only taking ~20mg and I now realize I should have been taking a dose of at least double that. I also didnt realize that it took so long to kick in, when nothing happened at all after 45 minutes I immediately wrote it off. Good to know for future reference that it can take up to 2 hours for the loperamide to start working. I hope you can find a dosage that allows you too function and beat these last few mg's and eventually the jumping off. I can't tell you how much better you'll feel when you arent physically dependent upon methadone and after this struggle hopefully it will cement the memory into your brain of how miserable methadone dependence can be and that you know that's ahead of you if you decide to abuse opiates. Good luck!!