Opioids Using Loperamide to combat methadone withdrawal?

[Swimmingdancer]

Thank you . I actually didn't find loperamide useful for me as even in moderate doses (that didn't seem to do much to help aside from improving the diarrhea) it made me feel weird and worsened the insomnia, so I was too scared to try higher doses. Plus methadone WD lasts SO long it didn't seem viable to take high doses of lope for that long. I ended up switching to low doses of shorter-acting weaker oral opioids and then using gabapentin and clonazepam. It's been over a couple months since I quit methadone (still taking gabapentin sometimes) and I still have terrible PAWS. I really do not recommend people stay on methadone for a long time like I did. Getting off it has been the biggest challenge of my life, which is saying a lot cuz I've been through a lot. And you're right, it definitely makes me NOT want to go back to opioids and make all the suffering be for nothing.

 

[Mass08]

Wait I am confused. I thought you said in your OP that you were taking 4mg every 12 hours? So this whole loperamide post is trying to combat PAWS and not acute withdrawal? (Not that methadone withdrawal is even remotely acute lol). Well if you are battling paws I found the biggest thing that helped me with PAWS after getting clean from heroin was to force myself to do things that use to bring me happiness. I started playing a lot of basketball and just chilled with sober friends and soon you'll notice that the PAWS will slowly but surely subside. This was PAWS from heroin though, and I know that the PAWS from longer acting opioids such as methadone and bupe is a whole another demon. But if you are through the acute phase than congratulations thats extremely impressive, not a lot of people make it through it takes a lot of heart, guts and perseverance. You have so many days of happiness and freedom from opiates ahead of you, just wait for that day when you feel absolutely amazing from sunrise to sunset and you didn't even need a chemical to feel that way.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Wait I am confused. I thought you said in your OP that you were taking 4mg every 12 hours? So this whole loperamide post is trying to combat PAWS and not acute withdrawal?

No, my original post was from a long time ago. I have since quit taking methadone but am still dealing with PAWS. Someone bumped the thread earlier today and then you asked if I had any updates

 

[crzydiamond]

Do you think that it is PAWS, or just a tendency toward depression? I ask this because I wonder if when people come off opiates and experience long term depression/inability to find happiness in daily life if it isn't more because a lot of people who tend to turn to opiates experienced that depression prior to ever using? Sort of like opiates were a self medication?

I wonder because I was hard core opiate user and also spent 6 years on MMT and I have never experienced PAWS. Yes I have felt depression while wd-ing ad right after for a week or two. But never long term like inhear others talk about.

So i wonder if it's something that is there prior to the opiate abuse?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Do you think that it is PAWS, or just a tendency toward depression? I ask this because I wonder if when people come off opiates and experience long term depression/inability to find happiness in daily life if it isn't more because a lot of people who tend to turn to opiates experienced that depression prior to ever using? Sort of like opiates were a self medication?

I wonder because I was hard core opiate user and also spent 6 years on MMT and I have never experienced PAWS. Yes I have felt depression while wd-ing ad right after for a week or two. But never long term like inhear others talk about.

So i wonder if it's something that is there prior to the opiate abuse?

I think the severity of both acute and post-acute withdrawals depends on a vast number of factors, including predispositions to mental and physical health issues, environmental and lifestyle factors, how old you are when you first start using, length of opioid use (as well as type and dose). A predisposition for depression or anxiety (as many many opioid users do have) can definitely be a factor. But you are extremely lucky, I have never ever before heard of anyone who was on methadone for that long who then quit opioids entirely and only felt depressed for a week or 2.

When I say I am having PAWS I don't just mean depression or difficulty experiencing joy though. I have severe insomnia, severe physical pain, severe fatigue, weakness, feel very cold most of the time/hypersensitivity to cold, hyperalgesia, still often get symptoms like chills/goosebumps, creepy skin sensations, runny nose, yawning etc, restlessness/RLS, hormonal imbalances, vitamin deficiencies despite supplementation, the diarrhea and nausea are only just starting to improve, and so on and so on (I could list more). I did not have these symptoms when I begun using opioids so I don't believe it's just that methadone was masking them and they've returned. And even as far as depression or pain that existed before opioid use, when someone stops using opioids after a long period of use the depression/pain are usually far worse than they ever were before, so there is more to it than the opioid simply no longer masking the pre-existing condition.

 

[crzydiamond]

^oh wow that's awful, I'm sorry to hear all that you're going through. I can't even imagine.

When I got off methadone I never experienced anything like that. The time I got off cold turkey I went through 30 days of hell, the worst was the extreme weakness. But even with that, once the physical part was gone I felt pretty much normal. After that withdrawal I didn't use opiates again for about 8 years. I have used on n off during the last 2 years, not methadone again though with the exception of using a dose to taper down when was getting withdrawals from using opiates. Currently have a minor habit that I'm slowly bringing down to quitting again. Right mow I can get by on 2 bags a day, when I get up (worst part of day), if I take about 10 mg of lope. I'm slowly eliminating the h, then will slowly eliminate the lope.

Anyway I wish you the best, I hope that eventually goes away or at least lessens for you. I have heard others talk of PAWS but never realized it could go to that extent. Definitely an eye opener.

 

[damenohito]

imo, paws is the worst part of any detox.

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

I have a a very close problem. I am two weeks of methadone I did take lope the first five days (day five 20mg held) I then got my order of kratom in the mail (I did not order enough and took 5 grams three times a day for three days and ran out) the last few days I took 50mg of lyrica (the first two days it worked) now I am still feeling real sick (shakes, cold sweats and I want to cut my fucking legs off!) is this paws or acute still?

 

[luckyshot04]

Okay, I've read too much yay and nay....I'm in a spot right now that I'm going to give it a whirl. One question, are you guys getting this shit OTC or off the shelves? I could've swore I seen it in the pharmacy section, not behind the counter.

I'll let you guys know how it went with me just to be fair. Never one set opinion on this issue, it seems.

I'm not coming off a bad opiate binge in the last couple days, but I ran out of suboxone. While not feeling the worst, I've took subs on and off for years. I rarely, rarely don't have any. So, I'm not going to try to eat 18 boxes of this shit to catch a buzz, sniff 25 up my right and left nostril, or prep for a shot (and the 1st shot ever being this, no way).

However, I'm curious just to see if it will ease the restless legs and such. I'm pretty regular on opiates, to be honest, so constipation probably wouldn't wipe me out.

Good luck

 

[joeburden]

loperamide is OTC, its usually on the shelf, not behind the counter.

here in boston, at least

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Okay, I've read too much yay and nay....I'm in a spot right now that I'm going to give it a whirl. One question, are you guys getting this shit OTC or off the shelves?

"OTC" even though it's technically an acronym for "over the counter" is now just used to mean no prescription is required. Loperamide is available on the shelves in the anti-diarrheal section at drugstores in North America, a popular brand being Immodium.

Never one set opinion on this issue, it seems.

Yeah, it seems different for everyone, like most drugs . It didn't work out for me but I'd say it's definitely worth a shot. some people find it extremely helpful for withdrawals.

Anyway I wish you the best, I hope that eventually goes away or at least lessens for you. I have heard others talk of PAWS but never realized it could go to that extent. Definitely an eye opener.

It's probably because I was on methadone for SO long. Withdrawals definitely get worse the longer you are on opioids and the more times you experience them. Thanks for your kind words

imo, paws is the worst part of any detox.

Yeah, it's the not knowing when it will improve that I have a really tough time with.

I have a a very close problem. I am two weeks of methadone I did take lope the first five days (day five 20mg held) I then got my order of kratom in the mail (I did not order enough and took 5 grams three times a day for three days and ran out) the last few days I took 50mg of lyrica (the first two days it worked) now I am still feeling real sick (shakes, cold sweats and I want to cut my fucking legs off!) is this paws or acute still?

Sounds like you're probably still in the acute phase since it's only been 2 weeks, acute methadone withdrawal can last for a very long time, much longer than other opioids. But there isn't a distinct line between acute and PAWS - it just slowly sort of transitions and some of the acute symptoms gradually start to get a little better. If you can handle it without the kratom I would recommend you do so, as the kratom might just delay your body/brain recovering since it is an opioid too. Let me know if you want some tips to help with the symptoms. What dose of Lyrica were you taking and how many times a day? Gabapentin and Lyrica can be really helpful in the right dose and frequency.

 

[luckyshot04]

Alright, I did 8mg's of the liquid just for a test about an hour ago. I really have to admit I don't feel nearly as bad as I did. I know I could go crazy and do more, but I see no need in that as I feel fine right now. I'm coming mainly off subs, although I did binge last week pretty hard and the week before.

So, in my opinion, 8mg's is a decent start. The shit does take forever to kick in, I would assume liquid is faster than pills. Either way, I wasn't trying to get high, just feel a little better.

Mission Accomplished!

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

Sounds like you're probably still in the acute phase since it's only been 2 weeks, acute methadone withdrawal can last for a very long time, much longer than other opioids. But there isn't a distinct line between acute and PAWS - it just slowly sort of transitions and some of the acute symptoms gradually start to get a little better. If you can handle it without the kratom I would recommend you do so, as the kratom might just delay your body/brain recovering since it is an opioid too. Let me know if you want some tips to help with the symptoms. What dose of Lyrica were you taking and how many times a day? Gabapentin and Lyrica can be really helpful in the right dose and frequency.

I was taking 50mg Lyrica twice daily. I have Gabapentin 200mg. I took one and no help? Its an old script from a year ago though. The Lyrica actually made me feel high the first day. It was like I took some LSD but it took my symptoms away. The second day I did not get that nasty high but still no symptoms. The third day I felt like I was back at square one (real sick) so I took an extra tab and it did not help. I dont want to be dependant on anything (I know Lyrica has dependancy but I dont know how long it takes to get addicted) and read that everything I am taking is addicting so I was trying to jump to something else every three days. I have also read the easier the detox the less PAWS? And Thank you for your help as I am having a very hard time..

Edit: I do have access to alot of medications (common) so any other suggestions would help? thank you again

 

[Ligaturd]

I tapered down from 120mgs of methadone to a comfortable and bearable withdrawal in a few weeks, it is possible. I was taking a lot of supplements at the time which also helped with the withdrawal as well. I will come back later tonight and post more info tonight. It is also worth mentioning that I was using methadone at 40-60mgs along with other opioids such as fentanyl, oxycodone, hydromorphone and codeine and quit them for a month and jumped back in with methadone and raised my tolerance past the 120mg mark in, I believe it was 2 or 3 weeks. One night I mistook a Naltrexone pill that had been mis-shapen in the washing machine into the shape of a cyclobenzaprine pill which is what I mistook it for in the dark when starting to go into withdrawals. I was thrown into precipitated withdrawal, I won't get into it but I found approx. 140mgs of Methadone later in the night and because of the Naltrexone, it didn't do anything.

A few days of withdrawing and I decided to use Loperamide at 60mgs and it did the trick for the most part, this is when I decided to try to quit "for good". Loperamide along with supplements and exercise alleviated the withdrawal and in a couple months I was feeling healthy and back to normal (for the most part). I was using opioids only for a couple years or so steadily so my situation is much different than yours, the precipitated withdrawal from taking the Naltrexone may also be a variable that will make my situation different than yours.

I will come back with more info if you like.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I was taking 50mg Lyrica twice daily. I have Gabapentin 200mg. I took one and no help? Its an old script from a year ago though. The Lyrica actually made me feel high the first day. It was like I took some LSD but it took my symptoms away. The second day I did not get that nasty high but still no symptoms. The third day I felt like I was back at square one (real sick) so I took an extra tab and it did not help. I dont want to be dependant on anything (I know Lyrica has dependancy but I dont know how long it takes to get addicted) and read that everything I am taking is addicting so I was trying to jump to something else every three days. I have also read the easier the detox the less PAWS? And Thank you for your help as I am having a very hard time..

Edit: I do have access to alot of medications (common) so any other suggestions would help? thank you again

Maybe you just didn't take enough of the Lyrica or gabapentin. Those are pretty low doses and tolerance can build quickly. For comparison I was taking 600-900mg gabapentin 3x a day (which strangely I didn't feel like my tolerance went up once I started doing that, even though when I was taking low doses I felt like it would only help for the first couple days if I took it every day) to combat opioid withdrawals, now I'm tapering off it. Not saying YOU would need that much, just that your dosage could explain why you didn't feel it helped.

Did you just stop taking the Lyrica after the third day when you felt like it wasn't helping much?

You of course don't want to take either for a long period of time and it's best to taper off them. I dislike the side effects but it's better than methadone withdrawals.

Do you take any benzos?

Are you taking the kratom right now?

Have you tried loperamide yet?

I recommend against relying on opioids like kratom or loperamide for very long (same with things like benzos etc obviously), try to use them as a taper. You don't need withdrawals from them to deal with (and yes you can still get withdrawals from loperamide even if it doesn't make you high).

How are you feeling now and what are the symptoms that are bothering you the most?

I can provide more advice once I hear the answers to all my questions. I recommend taking vitamins and supplements (let me know if you want a list of good ones to take) and trying to get exercise if you can force yourself to do it for a start. You have to learn to use some non-drug methods to cope, even if you're using drugs as well.

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

^ My doc did say I could up my dose of Lyrica as I see fit (we are good friends and he knows I am not trying to get high) so I will give it a shot again. Do you know how quickly the Lyrica and Gabapentin can have me hooked (roughly) and is it hard to stop taking?

I did stop the Lyrica and Gabapentin just because I am scared to take anything for more than three days because I know thats all it takes for opioids (I dont know much about the Lyrica or Gabapentin)

Unfortanatly I have been on 1mg xanax twice daily for a long time (next habbit to kick!) My doctor said he would call me in some Klonopins though but I dont want that benzo habbit to get worse. Although I have always been able to taper my benzos down real fast without any problem. So I might have him do that?

I did take 2.5 grams of kratom this morning and it does help dramatically!

I had a seizure the first night of withdrawal woke up in the hospital strapped to a bed but thats another story. After I got home I did SOME research (obviously not enough) I took stupid amounts of loperamide the first three days and probably made my habbit worse (I was still in withdraw the whole time though). By day five I only took about 20mg but I also started the kratom. Taking 3.5 grams at a time until I felt better. About 7 grams in the morning and 3.5 grams through out the day. The next day was five grams in the morning and three grams through the day with no lope. I took just kratom for a few days dropping my dose by .2 grams each dose. This was my hardest time and thats when I tried the Lyrica. It worked great the first day and second not the third. So I took 10mg lope and three doses of 3 grams kratom again. I am starting to feel much better now but still have yawning fits, cold sweats, consant stretching, And my legs hurt so bad I want to cut them off. This happens in between my kratom doses especially. I took 2.5 grams kratom today and one 50mg Lyrica and one 200mg Gabapentin. I feel better but still have stretching, yawning, leg pain, and sweats (not as bad though). I am going to work today for the first time since I quit my methadone. I used to work out every day until now. I will try to do something at least go for a walk because the pain in my legs. I was seeing spots last night and was told its probably because I have not ate much the last two weeks. So yes any vitamins or supplements that helped you would be great. I feel like all the fat I turned to muscle is back to fat. lol. I hope I can back to my (hard) workout soon. Thank you and everyone else for your help again. It means the world to me! I just want to be the father I was a month ago so bad.

 

[TRYINGTOKICKIT]

So I slept for a good five hours last night but woke up feeling like shit (morning is always the worst). I am going to try to go without the kratom. Yesterday I did take kratom in the morning but none during the day. I also took 400mg Gabapentin and 100mg Lyrica three time daily. I took my nomral dose of 1mg xanax twice daily. I did get some klonopin and took .5mg three times daily I felt about 85% and that is fine with me. So far today I took My first dose of 400mg Gabapentin, 100mg Lyrica, .5mg klonopin, one pill of my kids flinstone vitamins, lol, and a herbal supplement Theanine/Suntheanine which contains 100mg L-Theanine and 250mg Decaffenated Grean Tea (Camellia sinensis) (Leaf)-(I have been taking this for years and healps anxiety and relaxation without drowsiness). So I woke up at about feeling about 40% and two hours later I am about 70% but I dont think my meds have kicked in all the way yet. I am going to go for a walk and do a light workout no matter how hard. I am at about 75-80% now. My symptoms are chills, sweats, RLS, sweating/yawning attacks and my legs still hurt like hell. Even with all those symptoms I can't complain because I feel very positive and the symptoms are not nearly as bad as they were. The only thing I am worried about now is these dots that I see in the morning and night (from not eating much). If anyone knows some good vitamins and supplements to help bring me back. Please all and any help will help. lol. always, KICKIT

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Sorry I haven't replied yet, I'm just away right now. I'll try to post later when I have access to a computer. Sorry for the delay and hang in there

 

[candykane]

hi, new here, been reading 4 awhile, okay i got the kratom,the pods i took my last 5mgs metadone yesterday, about 4 pm, i tapered from 10 mgs for about a week,should i wait to try the kratom,i feel crappy frm the taper, but not too bad.

 

[candykane]

i hate to be sick! i hate myself! i hate dirty dishes! i hate dirty clothes! i hate just sitting here,i hate tv!