useing kratom for 2 weeks for subutex withdrawal,will i get addicted to kratom?

[jock briton]

hi bluelighters im looking for a bit advice of folk who have been through this,iv taperd down from 12mg of subutex to half a mg of subutex and tried and tried to jump off but the withdrawals are terrible.iv been on it near 8yrs and was going to go down the loperamide route but scared off it by the posts i read on bluelight about what it can do to my heart and its potential for addiction and bad withdrawals from it so instead got myself kratom,If i take kratom for 2 weeks to let the buprenorphine out my system will i get addicted to the kratom as i dont want to swap one for the other,iv heard the wd from kratom can be bad but not as bad as subutex, if i load up on the kratom say 18 grams a day for the first week then taper down to nothing the second week shall i just withdraw the same or will this help me,any advice would be great guys as im sick and tired of being a slave but just cant handle the intense withdrawal from subutex,thanks jock

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Why not drop even further it you made it to .5 why not keep going ? Get to .25 or maybe .10 and make the jump ?

 

[jock briton]

Why not drop even further it you made it to .5 why not keep going ? Get to .25 or maybe .10 and make the jump ?

well i said half a mg but what im actualy taken is 2 200 micro gram temgesics a day so probably under a half mg and i cant get any further down as i go in to full withdrawal when i try and i think its really not the amount im on it is the lengh of time iv been on it if i could i would do it as iv come down from 12mg and now i just want it out my system all together, have you been down the kratom route?

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Kratom never really worked for me, but I know there people on here who swear by it, I’m sure someone will pop in , good luck bro

 

[jock briton]

Kratom never really worked for me, but I know there people on here who swear by it, I’m sure someone will pop in , good luck bro

thanks mate

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

If i take kratom for 2 weeks to let the buprenorphine out my system will i get addicted to the kratom

There is the possibility that one will have a dependence on kratom but the WDs (if any) would be minimal and very forgiving (compared to bubre) if one can keep the dose down and maybe taper the kratom after use.
All this is worse case scenario, IMO. The mental "last call" of kratom can be an issue, though. It can be used as a crutch of sorts. Cannot guarantee any or all of this information.
IMO: Kratom would be the ideal route when one cannot taper another substance any further. It may be nasty to some but the nastier the better ime as there are alkoloids and there are alkoloids.
Great job. I know the road was/is hell. Once one can see what can be done when strength is exercised; it is empowering as a mf. Afterward one cannot lose this and it cannot be taken.
Best,
Ptah

 

[jock briton]

There is the possibility that one will have a dependence on kratom but the WDs (if any) would be minimal and very forgiving (compared to bubre) if one can keep the dose down and maybe taper the kratom after use.
All this is worse case scenario, IMO. The mental "last call" of kratom can be an issue, though. It can be used as a crutch of sorts. Cannot guarantee any or all of this information.
IMO: Kratom would be the ideal route when one cannot taper another substance any further. It may be nasty to some but the nastier the better ime as there are alkoloids and there are alkoloids.
Great job. I know the road was/is hell. Once one can see what can be done when strength is exercised; it is empowering as a mf. Afterward one cannot lose this and it cannot be taken.
Best,
Ptah

thank you mate

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

thank you mate

Just hope there may be a word or two in the post that is useful in some way.
Best wishes,
me

 

[ĐmantuNJofra]

Kratom never really worked for me, but I know there people on here who swear by it, I’m sure someone will pop in , good luck bro

Sorry mate, have a question; what did you mean by that? Like no effects, nothing, is it common that Kratom not working for everyone? i never used it and have a same problem like Jock Briton? I even tryed to jump from 0,1 mg which I couldn't properly measure so plasma levels was always with ammount of BUPE? jump is harsh phisically and nind is going crazy So for Kratom how did you took it in pills or a tea or ....?

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

is it common that Kratom not working for everyone?

Not knowing if poster is responsive imma chime in for just a second, please.
It is common that everyone will have different viewpoints on everything; including but not limited to drugs. Saying this: Most get the same or like effects from popular *things or they would not be popular. This is just an opinion but the fact remains that kratom will affect everyone different as it is about the chemical and physical makeup of oneself that individualizes our unique experiences in life.
Not sure if answered the question but if not we can continue....
Best always,
Ptah

 

[Clevus]

Bro I just quit fentanyl cold turkey 8 days ago and let me tell you, just stop everything and go cold turkey, it will be over in 5 days. And then you'll just feel like shit for a while like a normal person. Make the jump or you never will quit. It's a fact. You will have to face the music man its the only way. I've gone so far now through that pain and feeling like your legs have been sledgehammered and no sleep for a week. Trust me though you can do it, it will be one of the hardest tasks you've ever done but I'm here to tell you it's possible. Fentanyl wd is way worse than subs. I've done both lol. If I can cold turkey fentanyl you can handle those subs. NP

 

[Clevus]

After 3 days the worst of it is over and in 2 more your head will stop buzzing and clear. After that its just feeling sore and tired for 2 weeks. You can do it. Honestly the more you lay around feeling terrible the longer and more intense it is. The best thing you can do is just try to wake up and move and it will lessen itself

 

[jock briton]

After 3 days the worst of it is over and in 2 more your head will stop buzzing and clear. After that its just feeling sore and tired for 2 weeks. You can do it. Honestly the more you lay around feeling terrible the longer and more intense it is. The best thing you can do is just try to wake up and move and it will lessen itself

thamks mate im getting some zoplicone on monday from the doctor and im thinking of jumping and just getting this over and done with we all have to pay the piper as their is no easy way out,you have gave me a bit strengh

 

[bongdong]

Hey @jock briton
Think thats some good advice right there:

There is the possibility that one will have a dependence on kratom but the WDs (if any) would be minimal and very forgiving (compared to bubre) if one can keep the dose down and maybe taper the kratom after use.
All this is worse case scenario, IMO. The mental "last call" of kratom can be an issue, though. It can be used as a crutch of sorts. Cannot guarantee any or all of this information.
IMO: Kratom would be the ideal route when one cannot taper another substance any further. It may be nasty to some but the nastier the better ime as there are alkoloids and there are alkoloids.
Great job. I know the road was/is hell. Once one can see what can be done when strength is exercised; it is empowering as a mf. Afterward one cannot lose this and it cannot be taken.

Can't tell you much of the buprenorphine aspect of your situation, but yes, two weeks of kratom use (18g/day of powder) can already get you a little bit of tolerance and some mild symptoms when you wean it suddenly. But when you know subutex withdrawals, chances are that that won't bother you much. But it will be hard to tell/distiguish in you situation anyway, i guess. Some restlessness and sweat at night for a day or two, but the mental side is much more individual i think.

You said you don't know kratom yet, where do the "18 grams a day" come from? Just an idea: Why don't you take only so much that does the job for you? Depending on the kratom, this may be less than 18g. Or maybe even only at night, to get some symptom relieve and some sleep and then try fight through the day with the prospect that you have at least some aid at night.

All the best..

 

[jock briton]

Hey @jock briton
Think thats some good advice right there:


Can't tell you much of the buprenorphine aspect of your situation, but yes, two weeks of kratom use (18g/day of powder) can already get you a little bit of tolerance and some mild symptoms when you wean it suddenly. But when you know subutex withdrawals, chances are that that won't bother you much. But it will be hard to tell/distiguish in you situation anyway, i guess. Some restlessness and sweat at night for a day or two, but the mental side is much more individual i think.

You said you don't know kratom yet, where do the "18 grams a day" come from? Just an idea: Why don't you take only so much that does the job for you? Depending on the kratom, this may be less than 18g. Or maybe even only at night, to get some symptom relieve and some sleep and then try fight through the day with the prospect that you have at least some aid at night.

All the best..

that was just a number due to the amount iv got thanks for the advice mate

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey Jock, this is actually a pretty east question. Keaton's effects are pretty much the result of its active ingredient, Mitragynine and Mitragynine's metabolic relatives.

Mitragynine is an Opioid agonist, although a fairly mild one. This makes it a good choice for someone trying to taper off of a more potent Opioid agonist like Buprenorphine. Bupe is not a "full agonist" but a partial "agonist and antagonist", which does complicate the situation a little bit, but for our purposes, we are looking mainly at Buprenorphine's role as a fairly powerful Opioid agonist.

If you were switching from Kratom to Bupe, things would be a lot different, but that is a bridge we will cross when and if we get there.

In general, Opioids are all cross-tolerance with each other to varying degrees. A Heroin addict can medicate with Morphine and a Codeine-dependent individual can medicate with Morphine and vice-versa.

So, you dont need to worry about becoming addicted to Kratom because in essence you already are through your dependence upon Buprenorphine. They are pretty much interchangeable for the purposes of this thread. Like I opened with, Kratom/Mitragynine makes a reasonable choice for "stepping down" from a stronger Opioid and thus could make your withdrawal/taper a little bit less intense.

 

[jock briton]

Hey Jock, this is actually a pretty east question. Keaton's effects are pretty much the result of its active ingredient, Mitragynine and Mitragynine's metabolic relatives.

Mitragynine is an Opioid agonist, although a fairly mild one. This makes it a good choice for someone trying to taper off of a more potent Opioid agonist like Buprenorphine. Bupe is not a "full agonist" but a partial "agonist and antagonist", which does complicate the situation a little bit, but for our purposes, we are looking mainly at Buprenorphine's role as a fairly powerful Opioid agonist.

If you were switching from Kratom to Bupe, things would be a lot different, but that is a bridge we will cross when and if we get there.

In general, Opioids are all cross-tolerance with each other to varying degrees. A Heroin addict can medicate with Morphine and a Codeine-dependent individual can medicate with Morphine and vice-versa.

So, you dont need to worry about becoming addicted to Kratom because in essence you already are through your dependence upon Buprenorphine. They are pretty much interchangeable for the purposes of this thread. Like I opened with, Kratom/Mitragynine makes a reasonable choice for "stepping down" from a stronger Opioid and thus could make your withdrawal/taper a little bit less intense.

thanks for the info keith,im actualy going to try and get through this starting tomorow without the kratom but i do have it sitting their,im now down to 0.4 of bupe and want to know that if i take loperamide at the recomended doses on the box not mega doseing but useing it correctly for 5 to 7 days will it just prolong my withdrawal as thats the last thing i need im just sick of this slavery to opiates afeter 15 years all in 8 years on bupe,could you let me know thanks mate jock

 

[jock briton]

Hey Jock, this is actually a pretty east question. Keaton's effects are pretty much the result of its active ingredient, Mitragynine and Mitragynine's metabolic relatives.

Mitragynine is an Opioid agonist, although a fairly mild one. This makes it a good choice for someone trying to taper off of a more potent Opioid agonist like Buprenorphine. Bupe is not a "full agonist" but a partial "agonist and antagonist", which does complicate the situation a little bit, but for our purposes, we are looking mainly at Buprenorphine's role as a fairly powerful Opioid agonist.

If you were switching from Kratom to Bupe, things would be a lot different, but that is a bridge we will cross when and if we get there.

In general, Opioids are all cross-tolerance with each other to varying degrees. A Heroin addict can medicate with Morphine and a Codeine-dependent individual can medicate with Morphine and vice-versa.

So, you dont need to worry about becoming addicted to Kratom because in essence you already are through your dependence upon Buprenorphine. They are pretty much interchangeable for the purposes of this thread. Like I opened with, Kratom/Mitragynine makes a reasonable choice for "stepping down" from a stronger Opioid and thus could make your withdrawal/taper a little bit less intense.

oh i forgot to say im also getting 7 zoplicone of my doctor for at night time

 

[Keif' Richards]

thanks for the info keith,im actualy going to try and get through this starting tomorow without the kratom but i do have it sitting their,im now down to 0.4 of bupe and want to know that if i take loperamide at the recomended doses on the box not mega doseing but useing it correctly for 5 to 7 days will it just prolong my withdrawal as thats the last thing i need im just sick of this slavery to opiates afeter 15 years all in 8 years on bupe,could you let me know thanks mate jock

Hey Jock! I'm glad to see you're willing to grab the bull by the horns and try to quit without too much assistance from other substances. We have your back.

You're right that by using Opioids, you will likely be extending the duration of your withdrawal syndrome in a significant way which isn't what you want. Most Opioid addicts dont report their first WD syndrome until weeks or months into their regular usage.

But, most of us know that once you have "had a habit" that is, have been dependent, withdrawn and returned to your starting point, but becomes much faster/easier to get back to a point of dependence. It took me ~6 months of dope use before I really hit my first sick. Now, if I were to use Heroin for 3 days even, I would be left with a sickness as potent as any other time.

When an addict puts time together and makes progress, taking Opioids even just once can and often does set them back exponentially. For this reason, it works best to taper to zero Opioids and then stay at zero. There are lots of different substances and practices that can help get you through the more difficult phase of your withdrawal.

If you want to taper all the way down with Kratom, that is up to you. I think we should wait and see how you do with your current plant and if you decide you need some aid, we can try the Kratom.

Loperamide

The use of Loperamide for acute withdrawal is often required due to the severity of one's GI symptoms, but you definitely don't want to use more than the bare minimum. The confusing thing is, Loperamide is actually a powerful Opioid. It simply doesn't produce a lot of Central Nervous System action compared to other Opioids.

This seems to mean, while Loperamide won't get you "high" or produce psychoactive symptoms in regular dosages, that doesn't mean it cant produce severe and intense physical withdrawal symptoms.

Folks who have used extremely excessive amounts of Loperamide for recreation or withdrawal control have reported powerful and unexpected withdrawal symptoms. My point is that I believe Loperamide usage can probably contribute to prolonging one's withdrawal syndrome if used for too long or in high quantities.

 

[jock briton]

Hey Jock! I'm glad to see you're willing to grab the bull by the horns and try to quit without too much assistance from other substances. We have your back.

You're right that by using Opioids, you will likely be extending the duration of your withdrawal syndrome in a significant way which isn't what you want. Most Opioid addicts dont report their first WD syndrome until weeks or months into their regular usage.

But, most of us know that once you have "had a habit" that is, have been dependent, withdrawn and returned to your starting point, but becomes much faster/easier to get back to a point of dependence. It took me ~6 months of dope use before I really hit my first sick. Now, if I were to use Heroin for 3 days even, I would be left with a sickness as potent as any other time.

When an addict puts time together and makes progress, taking Opioids even just once can and often does set them back exponentially. For this reason, it works best to taper to zero Opioids and then stay at zero. There are lots of different substances and practices that can help get you through the more difficult phase of your withdrawal.

If you want to taper all the way down with Kratom, that is up to you. I think we should wait and see how you do with your current plant and if you decide you need some aid, we can try the Kratom.

Loperamide

The use of Loperamide for acute withdrawal is often required due to the severity of one's GI symptoms, but you definitely don't want to use more than the bare minimum. The confusing thing is, Loperamide is actually a powerful Opioid. It simply doesn't produce a lot of Central Nervous System action compared to other Opioids.

This seems to mean, while Loperamide won't get you "high" or produce psychoactive symptoms in regular dosages, that doesn't mean it cant produce severe and intense physical withdrawal symptoms.

Folks who have used extremely excessive amounts of Loperamide for recreation or withdrawal control have reported powerful and unexpected withdrawal symptoms. My point is that I believe Loperamide usage can probably contribute to prolonging one's withdrawal syndrome if used for too long or in high quantities.

thanks mate il only take the loperamide if my guts are killing me and i mean like 2 to 4 mg as iv just had enough il keep you posted if i can over the next week cheers for having my back mate