Up in smoke! Dutch to ban tourists from buying pot

mymindisgoo said:
wait, since i have a french passport and the netherlands is part of the eu (?) will this apply to me?!
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Fucking France, your lot are to blame for this, you bastards, French government after government have been moaning for years that the Dutch are responsible for the French fucking drugs problem, well how about being French, waking up French every day, wouldnt that just fucking drive you to drugs, I mean, every time you opened your mouth, you'd be, oh god do I really sound like this, please someone pass the fucking crack pipe. I cant handle this any more.
 
blauwelichten said:
Fucking France, your lot are to blame for this, you bastards, French government after government have been moaning for years that the Dutch are responsible for the French fucking drugs problem, well how about being French, waking up French every day, wouldnt that just fucking drive you to drugs, I mean, every time you opened your mouth, you'd be, oh god do I really sound like this, please someone pass the fucking crack pipe. I cant handle this any more.
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hahah this is so funny. man, so funny.
 
pofacedhoe said:
because the quality in holland is superior and its cheaper:\
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Is that assuming everyone can get to Amsterdam for free?

I'd rather head over to Cali and I know others have said the same.


I'd check out Amsterdam for a day or 2 if I was doing some kind of European trip, but I don't think I make a vacation out of smoking weed.
 
:)
blauwelichten said:
Loads of tourists hit het Nederlands for the red light and the weed, plane loads of them from all over the world, every week. The red lights are available elsewhere anyway, its only the walletjes that are being tidied up. To be honest the RLD was a haven of criminality at one time but the last time I went to Amsterdam it had completely changed and had been tidied up.

I do know that not many Dutch people smoke the szhticky, and when they travel abroad it pisses them off that they are only ever remembered as the country where you can smoke the szhticky and for the red lights. It is a little embarrassing or so they tell me. I always like to remind them at this point of their role as the european hub of ecstasy manufacture and distribution, god damn fine ecstasy. Youve gotta be good at something, why not having the highest quallity drugs in Europe http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cf...egory=w104&stat_type=w87&order=stat_reference

Whether the Dutch can pull off discriminating against EU citizens, Im not so sure if thats possible. The EU has effectively no borders its a free trade area, but I guess only when it suits politicians.

As I understand it prior to the coffee shops you would have to buy your weed off shady guys down dark alleys, and the coffee shops reduced the criminality, youll still be able to get weed easily, just locals will sell it at a mark-up.

And please dont be rude about the Dutch, its not everyones god given right to view Amsterdam as their their own personal grow room, its their country, if they want to stop getting the tourism revenue thats their call, we've benefited for long enough.
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I rarely log onto BL but when I do, you often have already written an answer that I completely agree with! :)

Its a bit more serious that I thought but I would say don't panic. I do not have time for a detailed answer, but realize this new government is holding on by one or two members of parliament. The new government is not even a majority, but they have an alliance with the rightwing/racist party called the PVV.

Closing CS are not high up on the agenda, the economy and immigration are. That being said, they may try to go the membership route. I do not think they will be successful, but who knows.

The entire concept of 'memebership' and exclusion of legal EU visitors was taken to court. In theory, no EU country can discriminate against another EU citizen. So you canno have, for example, computer stores in NL that only sell to Dutch citizen or permanent EU citizen residents.

THe problem is, that cannabis is NOT LEGAL in the NL, that is a myth. It is ok for you to have 5g on you and the CS can have 500g, but it is not legal to grow or import large amounts. It is still technically illegal to posses it. THerefore, the Dutch CAN discriminate and not violate EU laws.

So....it may happen, I am not sure. I cannot see towns like Amsterdam going along, but the new Justice Minister (a COCK!) says they must. Who knows?

As for the money part, I did a calculation and at 400m euros earned from the CS scene and all the other money stoners spend (hotels, etc) that is 0.05% of the Dutch GPD. They can walk away from the money from drugs tourism and not feel it too much.

Blau is right on the money about respecting the Dutch, most are quite conservative and they just don't like the reputation this place has as a center for weed and whores...LOL.

The border towns do have problems with tons of people coming over from Belgium, France and Germany. They cause major hassles for those towns, crime, traffic etc. IF they can simply require 'membership' cards for those border towns, I think that is a fair comprimise.

The new government sucks, and I hate them. I am not Dutch but live here as an American with an EU passport, so I take very seriously what goes on here. I vote in local elections (can't vote in the national election as I am not a citizen). The danger of this new right wing goverment is much deeper than just regulating dope, they are assholes of the highest order!
 
blauwelichten said:
Fucking France, your lot are to blame for this, you bastards, French government after government have been moaning for years that the Dutch are responsible for the French fucking drugs problem, well how about being French, waking up French every day, wouldnt that just fucking drive you to drugs, I mean, every time you opened your mouth, you'd be, oh god do I really sound like this, please someone pass the fucking crack pipe. I cant handle this any more.
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HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAHA

First of Blau, a friendly "Va te faire foutre" (fuck you!)...since I am Frenchie by marriage!!! :\:) I love French people and trust me as an American who came over and stole one of their girls, that says a lot!!!! I don't tolerate shit from them, but I really am treated well by the French.

However, you are SPOT ON about why the Dutch are considering changing this law. Its due to pressure from France and Germany. The government of those countires are too cowardly to implement a sane drug policy like we have here in Holland. So they bitch and whine at EU meetings to the Dutch PM and eventually, it makes a difference.

Je vous souhaite une bonne journée!
 
I was being contraire and not at all serious.
I too love the french, the films, the football, the art, their tendency to riot for the slightest reason,its all good.
However their governments have blamed the Dutch for their drugs problem for many years.
The dutchies have strong opinions about the french.
 
really, lol @ all the french comments, especially "their tendency to riot for the slightest reason," ha! to the other froggie, us americans sure to love going to france and bagging one apparently!
 
I saw this mentioned in a NZ cannabis law reform magazing (NORML) and in the article it was mentioned that if this actually goes through there will be dutch people sitting in the cafes who will be willing to buy weed for the non-locals. I don't see this changing much of anything in any case.
 
mymindisgoo said:
really, lol @ all the french comments, especially "their tendency to riot for the slightest reason," ha! to the other froggie, us americans sure to love going to france and bagging one apparently!
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You know French and Americans are SO similar, that is why we don't get along politically. Both France and America think they are the best country, have the best (fill in the blank....), etc.

And most of 'em can't speak a foreign langauge worth shit! :):)
 
They'll never go through with this. In the Southern parts (Brabant & Limburg), maybe. In Amsterdam, no way. Mayor of A'dam (Eberhard van der Laan) already said he wouldn't dream of considering it, but our new government lackies, they're pushing it (specifically, Ivo Opstelten). If anything, if it does go through, you can bet your ass that implementing it in the real world is going to be more than difficult. Who's going to check? Police? Yeah right. They don't have the money to implement it, budget cuts are flying left and right, so again, this ain't happening.
 
I have been to Amsterdam 4 times,twice for the Cannabis Cup,and while American tourists spending money on weed and hash may not make a lot of difference to the Netherlands,over time ,american,other european nations,etc.. moneys added up spent on hotels,in restaurants,etc. and on hash and marijauna will be sorely missed by the Dutch in the long run.Maybe not for a number of years ,but it all adds up over time,and I see this as a mistake on the dutch governments part.I have several friends who live in or near amsterdam and only one of them smokes weed on a regular basis,the others have all smoked before,but prefer beer or MDMA if that. They do not see the big deal about smoking weed,and after visting several times it loses it appeal as being something new and cool. I can sit at home and smoke better ,cheaper indoor high grade and have more than 5 grams for certain,and have an ounce vrought to me by a friend or family member who grows indoor high grade weed.I do not have to travel to Europe to get high grade weed,in my opinion the high grade ,medical grade shit my people grow beats any weed I ever smoked while in Amsterdam,and I do not have to travel across the Atlantic Ocean to sit in a bar,not a hash bar,a regular bar,nearby where people often smoke joints at the tables after midnight ,when the doors are locked to outsiders,and since it is a pricate type bar,only members and guests are allowed anyway,and they screen out anyone who might be a cop or narc..lol..actually a couple of cops go there to drink and I have hit a joint they rolled on several occasions..lol..I do not like cops ,but when they pass you a joint of good bud,and do not try to arrest you the next day becasue they know you might have drugs then it's all good...lol
 
Like others have stated, just come to California, our economy needs the tourism Euros, Swiss Franks, Auz $, Yen, British Pounds, ect...

Now more than ever Americans need to work towards restoring our traditions of Freedom, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, if fascism shall flourish in the Monarchies and Rupublics of Europe. Though my idea of governance is like that of your typical Alaskan (which decriminalized cannabis in 1975, 1 year before the dutch), than your typical California, opposite ends of the political spectrum (probably need to be an American to understand the distinction).
On US soil, as a piece of trivia it was the Panama Canal Zone that first repealled canabis prohibition and legalized its consumption for US civilians residing in the Zone- thats actually an interesting story.

So we the people of California our message to the world:

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your oppressed,
Your huddled masses yearning to smoke free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden gate!"

 
Blowmonkey said:
They'll never go through with this. In the Southern parts (Brabant & Limburg), maybe. In Amsterdam, no way. Mayor of A'dam (Eberhard van der Laan) already said he wouldn't dream of considering it, but our new government lackies, they're pushing it (specifically, Ivo Opstelten). If anything, if it does go through, you can bet your ass that implementing it in the real world is going to be more than difficult. Who's going to check? Police? Yeah right. They don't have the money to implement it, budget cuts are flying left and right, so again, this ain't happening.
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True, although the dick Opstelten went on the radio this week to say it would cover Amersterdam.

Fuck him, and if the cops start busting people for smoking weed, it will get ugly. People are pissed off....squats getting closed, budget cuts, Wildeers and his band of thugs being revealed for who they are. Let's see how well they do banning weed, since they have stopped hard drugs so well (sarcasm alert since half the European coke moves through the Dam and most of the XTC is made in NL and Belgium).

I serioutsly doubt rank and file cops will want to enforce this.
 
DavisK4high247 said:
I have been to Amsterdam 4 times,twice for the Cannabis Cup,and while American tourists spending money on weed and hash may not make a lot of difference to the Netherlands,over time ,american,other european nations,etc.. moneys added up spent on hotels,in restaurants,etc. and on hash and marijauna will be sorely missed by the Dutch in the long run.Maybe not for a number of years ,but it all adds up over time,and I see this as a mistake on the dutch governments part.I have several friends who live in or near amsterdam and only one of them smokes weed on a regular basis,the others have all smoked before,but prefer beer or MDMA if that. They do not see the big deal about smoking weed,and after visting several times it loses it appeal as being something new and cool. I can sit at home and smoke better ,cheaper indoor high grade and have more than 5 grams for certain,and have an ounce vrought to me by a friend or family member who grows indoor high grade weed.I do not have to travel to Europe to get high grade weed,in my opinion the high grade ,medical grade shit my people grow beats any weed I ever smoked while in Amsterdam,and I do not have to travel across the Atlantic Ocean to sit in a bar,not a hash bar,a regular bar,nearby where people often smoke joints at the tables after midnight ,when the doors are locked to outsiders,and since it is a pricate type bar,only members and guests are allowed anyway,and they screen out anyone who might be a cop or narc..lol..actually a couple of cops go there to drink and I have hit a joint they rolled on several occasions..lol..I do not like cops ,but when they pass you a joint of good bud,and do not try to arrest you the next day becasue they know you might have drugs then it's all good...lol
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Good analysis but you are off on the bars. The place you went to may have seemed underground for allowing weed at the bar, but really you can smoke weed in 100s of bars in Amsterdam, daytime, night-time and no one gives a shit. Its quite 'legal', in fact more legal that the cigarette smoking that NEVER STOPPED in most 'real' Amsterdam bars, especially neighborhood joints.

As for cops and drugs, don't be naive and take coke or xtc into a bar or coffeeshop PLEASE. I say that mostly for the owner of the bar or coffeeshop. If they catch a patron in a coffeeshop with hard drugs, they will be shut down on the spot. If you get caught with hard drugs in cafe or bar, the owner will get in huge trouble. Be subtle about it at a club and simply do not bring it into a coffeeshop. If a bag of powder falls out of your backpack at a coffeeshop, all hell will break loose.
 
jspun said:
Like others have stated, just come to California, our economy needs the tourism Euros, Swiss Franks, Auz $, Yen, British Pounds, ect...

Now more than ever Americans need to work towards restoring our traditions of Freedom, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, if fascism shall flourish in the Monarchies and Rupublics of Europe. Though my idea of governance is like that of your typical Alaskan (which decriminalized cannabis in 1975, 1 year before the dutch), than your typical California, opposite ends of the political spectrum (probably need to be an American to understand the distinction).
On US soil, as a piece of trivia it was the Panama Canal Zone that first repealled canabis prohibition and legalized its consumption for US civilians residing in the Zone- thats actually an interesting story.

So we the people of California our message to the world:

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your oppressed,
Your huddled masses yearning to smoke free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden gate!"
Click to expand...

Facism is not flourishing here, the 'right-wing' government here would be too left of center to win a dog catcher election in the US (California included).

As an American, I have to say my fear if for the US, not Europe. The US is lurching towards the right hard and if the tea baggers somehow mange to get Sarah Palin, or another ultra-rightwing reprobate into the White House, it will make the GB Bush years look like Sweden. America is an angry place, full of armed nuts who want their 'country back'.

Europe will do fine, despite some right wing electoral victories. On the other hand, I think America is doomed. Its why i left.
 
America is an angry place, full of armed nuts who want their 'country back'.
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Switzerland is a tidy place full of armed sane pragmaticist. Actually, in 1848, the Swiss drew up their constitution using the American model, with a strong emphasis on canonal rights and idividual liberties. With the added benefit of direct democracy like he ballot initiative we have out west although they allow participation on the federal level. The Swiss voters, always pragmatic voted for heroin replacement therapy but against cannabis legalization. They did this most likely to prevent drug tourism- a lesson they learned in Zurich when hard drugs were offically tolerated by the city in "Needle Park" between 1986-1992 and subsequent outdoor scenes in an abandoned train station. In Needle park, the park of Platszpitz the idea was to centralize junkies. What happened was that the population of the park grew from a couple hundred to tens of thousands at its peak that didn't jive with the tidy Swiss image.

Anyway, like has been pointed out, Holland, and Amsterdam in particular have enough beautiful cultural sights and a diversified economy that won't miss the tourist Euro's that much.

By Alaskan idea of governance I'm not taking about Sarah Palin and the Tea baggers but the belief in personal freedom and individualism. They remain the only State to elect a libertarian in Congress. America does need its country back, we are controlled by public action committees on the right and left. Both sides screw the poor and middle class its just the republicans are more honest about it.
 
Politics aside, I think California is a better drug tourist destination than the Kingdom of the Netherlands. I would go to a city like Amsterdam for the art, nightlife, and cultural institutions in one of the worlds great cities. I think hanging in the cannabis cafes and blowing ones' money on hookers and live sex shows solely would be squandering ones vacation and opportunity to visit a city and nation so steeped in history. For the drug tourist that has a taste for harder drugs, with the exception of E and maybe some psychedelics that haven't been banned from smart shops (if there are any left) I heard the street scene for hard drugs like heroin and cocaine is a ripoff- heard many stories of tourists getting punked.

California on the other hand. You can stay in San Francisco, a world class city of great beauty both natural and man made get a med card, hop on BAART and go to "Oaksterdam" or to a dispensary in the city and there is a scene for all kinds of drugs on the street it shouldn't be to hard to find if thats your thing. There is great diverse nightlife and San Fracisco has alot to keep you occupied. Along to being in proximity to one of the worlds greatest outdoor cannabis growing regions, its also close to California wine country, and small farms focusing on fine produce that supply the cities plethothora of great eateries when you get the munchies. Good E up there according to what I read in pillreports.

Now San Diego, LA would be cool to spend a weekend and get to experience the whole Hollywood thing but I tend to disdain the place, goes against the melllow egalitarian vibes of San Diego o the Bay Area. So San Diego would make another good drug vacation spot, there is beauty, history, great parks and decent museums but you wouldn't be missing much if you spent alot of your time at the beach in the summer in places like PB that are full of hotties (or hot surfer boys for the ladies...or hillcrest if your gay.) Dispensaries are harder to find but they are around and prety accessible. You can get a huge fine for smoking on the beach that is much more than for the infraction for smoking a dube in public but the life guards might let you get away with smoking a dube or just cross the street. I went to a cafe the other day and the sweet smell of kind wafted in from the patio- no one even reacted like with a consipirtorial smile like the old days- it just didn't merit attention. The pills I hear are of good to outstanding quality (based on pillreports) and widely available at raves and sometimes clubs- maybe even better than Northern California. Youth Hostels are probably good resources. The weather is outstanding.

You also have TJ a trolley ride to the border 15-20 km away. You can walk across. If you have a taste for hard drugs they are very easily obtained here- people cross over from San Diego because the large open air markets mean they don't have to wait for the connect. Heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, pharms OTC at certain pharmacies like xanax, clonopin, oxy, ketamine used to be easily available at "animal pharmacy, as was nembutal" but not so much any more, I think. A red light district to boot, sports gambling, fireworks, switchblades (but absolutely no guns!). In the brothels I've heard of the girls bringing pipes loaded with shards. I also heard that since the mexican federal government decriminalized drugs last year (of specified quantities) stories like people doing lines of coke off the tits of strippers were as before it was shots of tequila. Is there a cop outside the buy spot, half the time he's preventing you and the dealer from ripoffs. If you are caught with small amounts the are supposed to let you go. If they ask for cash- don't argue, give them a twenty/ This place is like the wild west and a modern day war zone (think Iraq) rolled into one. There is a strong military presence. Be advised, many non-mexican nationals have been abucted in TJ and held for ransome so in the interest of harm reduction, stay in the area were there are alot of other tourists. I wont tell you were to cop only it is one of the easiest places in the world to do so.

Back in California, you can surf in the morning and go snowboarding or skiing in the afternoon. The weather is equitable prety much year round. Anyway, our once strong, rich diversified economy is stagnating so we need the tourists $s. Our state is in dire finacial distress so we can use the money.

An irony of the French complaining about the Dutch soft drug policy and they have been doing this since the cold war. When I visited the Island of Saint Maarten/ St. Martin, the Caribean Island divided between France and the Kingdom of The Netherlands, though the distinctions are subtle I got the impression that cannabis wasn't really tolerated in Philipsburgh and the locals didn't seem to identify themselves with the dutch while on the French side Gange was very easy to come buy, was of good quality, and I didn't feel any police pressure at the beach we were at- people seemed chill with the whole thing. Also I got the sense that people were happier with the status quo. Just a fleeting impression.
 
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