Give me a break, so Americans are going to go extinct now because our healthcare’s so bad lol. I’m not saying you’re not smart but I feel like you’re writing more to sound smart then actually say something
Social Justice Universal Health Care Discussion Thread
- Thread starter JessFR
- Start date
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
The last line was an attempt to keep the conversation a little lighthearted. But the serious bit was that as a nation you are spending more and more on healthcare while the average life expectancy of your citizens is declining (obviously it's never going to reach zero). However, you are the only G7 country in decline (pre-covid) and you already trail the G7 average by almost 4 years (as of 2018) .
I understand you have a strong sense of patriotism and national spirit - but how can you be proud of that? It's a long way from being the best of the best isn't it? What's more important than your citizens leading long and happy lives?
I’m proud that there’s plenty of opportunities to succeed in this country and honestly it’s really not that hard. Having been all over the world in the military I know that’s not guaranteed. I don’t need the government to take more of my money for my healthcare. I have great coverage and that wasn’t really that hard either.
Why cater to the bottom 20% that don’t care enough to help themselves? Why not make rules to cater to the people that are actually doing things right. Why should anything that cost money be free? Someone’s paying for it so why not the person using it? I take care of myself, don’t smoke and workout everyday yet my healthcare costs getting pooled with people smoking a pack a day and shooting heroin. Also the systems going to be flooded with hypochondriac that have nothing better to do and drug seekers that wouldn’t spend there own money on going but it’s free so mine as well
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
You know this site is designed explicitly as a support resource for drug users right? Political discussions are just a sideline. Do you use or have you ever used drugs? It's like every second post you make is to somehow declare your moral superiority to many millions of people on the bottom rungs of society. That's how you feel right? That you are morally superior to 'the bottom 20%'?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Well that's a relief.
Nothing to do with being morally superior. I’ve said people that need help I’m all for but the reality is some people you can’t help. As a drug addict/ recovering or whatever you are should understand that. I think America’s a great country but my major complaint is the direction it is going is wrong and what you’re saying epitomizes that
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
- Messages
- 25,641
Your entire argument is based on "not caring to help people that don't help themselves". Sounds like you just have an issue with empathy. Most people work hard everyday. There is no "bottom 20%" that's just lazy.
Also, paying a tax for healthcare would be YOU paying for YOUR healthcare. Everyone is paying for everyone. Why do you have a crusade against people you deem unworthy? Just because you've done something means it's easy and everyone else is just dumb or lazy? Please. Guaranteed there's plenty of people working jobs you deem inferior that work twice as hard as you.
I have empathy for thing I feel need it and rely on us like pets or kids. I’ve seen way to many adults taking advantage of the system we already have and not sure why my argument is so hard to grasp. I believe in small government and people keeping there money. Everyone agrees our government sucks at everything it does yet when they take over healthcare it’ll magically be awesome. It’s going to be sad day in this country when no matter what you do you can’t get ahead because we’re paying so much in taxes
Also pretty sure I broke down why I felt everyone paying for everyone is wrong. So people not abusing the system are stuck paying the cost of people that are abusing the system is somehow fair. The guy that didn’t smoke cigarettes his whole life is stuck paying for the health problems of the guy that did?
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
- Messages
- 25,641
We're already paying an outrageous amount of taxes. But because of so called small government conservatives like yourself, the working class pays most of our taxes while the wealthy get tax cuts and the government wastes money on broken planes. And we get jack shit back for our money.
You might say you're small government but I've found that most conservatives are perfectly fine with government as long as it's used to give rich people money and blow up brown kids in other countries.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
- Messages
- 25,641
You're more worried about people abusing the system than you are about the system abusing people. Which is what is really happening here.
atara
Bluelighter
You seem to think that the push for universal healthcare is a result of the screaming horde demanding tribute. But this isn't true. For one thing, the US already has some characteristics of universal healthcare via the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which requires that patients in emergency rooms be stabilized regardless of their ability to pay. EMTALA care is paid by the government through the back-door via Medicaid and Medicare prices and subsidies to hospitals.
More importantly, modern economists often favor universal healthcare due to the associated positive externalities of improved public health (increased productivity, lower crime, etc). That isn't a characteristic shared with every social program. In addition, a major role of health care providers is in providing information, which is known to have strange market characteristics in that, because information can be produced for "free", markets will not always produce it as efficiently as possible (cf. the rise of internet piracy of music and videos) so government intervention may encourage more effective information sharing. In general, outside the United States, the health care system in the United States is widely considered to be an aberration.
None of the above paragraph would remain true in the case of any other social program (except universal education, which we already have). Your slippery slope doesn't have water on it. But to me, the reform we just got two weeks ago is good enough from a universality standpoint, now we just need to deal with hospitals using convoluted ownership structures to exploit the tax code.
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
Yes since it’s not really a system they can abuse. Simply by being in this country they are protected and not really causing the cost of our military to go up. Really baffles me how the concept of people pulling there own weight is so controversial to you guys. We need to overhaul our system and make it more affordable and stop incentivizing people to be reliant on the government.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
- Messages
- 25,641
... people that value human life?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Expressed this way I am in total agreement with you. And I think plenty of others would be too. The big schism here seems to be between a view that many or most people who can’t afford health care are undeserving of it because they are lazy free-riders on those that end up paying for it and the alternative view that many people remain unable to afford healthcare because of personal, social and economic factors beyond their control and best effort.
An example would be 12 year old girl with leukaemia whose parents are hourly waged hospitality workers with no benefits. It’s not clear how @bmf666 would see her receiving medical treatment and whether she is deserving of it.
Another example would be someone in their early 20s who had done all that @bmf666 thinks people should do. Worked hard in school, took on part-time jobs to build her skills, planned to apply to the military but had a psychotic episode one day and was found to have schizophrenia. Unfortunately she comes from a broken home with a drug addicted mum and a violent father so cannot look to her family for support. How should her care be funded? Does she deserve care?