unconventional macros/bulking

You've lost the plot. IF... wait... I repeat.. IF I were to take amphetamine and reply it would be with pointed examples and a lot of condescending rhetoric once I was done gathering my sources and reading for 6 hours.. Yet at same tim it would be very incomplete and rushed because I would crash lose interest around 4 hour mark. Would be eight paragraphs not one. Now try rereading that post it will make sense for you.
 
Snarky91 said:
Now try rereading that post it will make sense for you.
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Snarky, I have no issue with you and your occasionally verbose contributions. However amongst all the text here you made two points:

(1) Allergies are not particularly serious
(2) 'Syndromes' are "nonexistant" - simply faulty Western thinking

Those are pretty extreme theories that fly in the face of basic science, yet you haven't substantiated them with any evidence.

On the other hand, people suffer from well-documented and sometimes severe allergies (anaphylaxis) to foods, pharmaceuticals, bee stings, pollen, dustmites and so on. Up to 1500 die from them every year. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11882-003-0007-8

And as for your disdain for 'syndromes' generally, telling a person they don't suffer from, for example, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome because it's suffixed with the term 'syndrome' (even though it is based on genetic tests and causes extreme hypermobility, arthritis, vascular disease, heart trouble) or Asperger's Syndrome, Marfan Syndrome, or Down Syndrome (an extra chromosome 21), or any of the other dozens of syndromes: (here's a short summary: http://www.doctorslounge.com/studlounge/downdirty/syndromes.htm ) is pretty insensitive.

I have no problem with you believing in your theories and no interest in trying to convince you otherwise. However this is a science-based forum, and when you start making left-field statements to dismiss the contributions of others because it contradicts one of your theories, you need to back that up with more than just opinion.
 
CFC said:
Snarky...

I have no problem with you believing in your theories and no interest in trying to convince you otherwise. However this is a science-based forum, and when you start making left-field statements to dismiss the contributions of others because it contradicts one of your theories, you need to back that up with more than just opinion.
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This is provocation to make me seem like a foolish, backseat driver second guessing the opinions of trained nascar technicians. Or someone just naive and superstitious. Actually, I did look up food protein induced enetercolitis syndrome. I noticedit's most typically a 'problem' with milk and soy. So you show me a guy who can't eat carbs due to fpies and I'll show you exaggeration or problem owing to some other unknown etiology (cause). This is to make a long story short.
 
Snarky91 said:
This is provocation to make me seem like a foolish, backseat driver second guessing the opinions of trained nascar technicians. Or someone just naive and superstitious
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You made yourself look foolish by what you wrote - it's not provocation to point this out. You still haven't backed your assertions.
 
Show me a documented case of someone who cannot eat carbs but can eat protein and fats just fine. There. The burden of proof is on you since you started this whole debacle.
 
Snarky91 said:
Show me a documented case of someone who cannot eat carbs but can eat protein and fats just fine. There. The burden of proof is on you since you started this whole debacle.
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Quite evidently you started this whole 'debacle' because you chose to imply that I was inventing my friend's food allergies (though why I would be apparently motivated to do so I have no idea). Then when I told you what he suffers from, you claim that allergies and syndromes aren't serious and don't exist.

Aside from the fact that a diet of fats and proteins with minimal carbs and no carbohydrate staples is the traditional diet of the entire Inuit peoples - and thus completely uncontroversial - there is plenty of information regarding how FPIES is also provoked by carbohydrate staples, such as:

Pediatrics. 2003 Apr;111(4 Pt 1):829-35.
Food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome caused by solid food proteins.
Nowak-Wegrzyn A1, Sampson HA, Wood RA, Sicherer SH.
"Cereals, vegetables, and poultry meats, typically regarded as of low allergenic potential, must be considered in the evaluation of FPIES"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12671120

J Allergy Clin Immunol Pract. 2013 Jul-Aug;1(4):317-22.
Food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome (FPIES): current management strategies and review of the literature.
Järvinen KM1, Nowak-Węgrzyn A2.
"FPIES is elicited most commonly by milk and soy proteins; however, rice, oat, and other solid foods may also elicit FPIES"
http://www.jaci-inpractice.org/article/S2213-2198(13)00200-6/abstract

Arch Dis Child 2009;94:220-223
Rice: a common and severe cause of food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome
Mehr, A; M Kakakios, A; S Kemp
"This study highlights the emerging importance of rice, a food commonly thought to be “hypoallergenic”, as a significant trigger of FPIES."
http://adc.bmj.com/content/94/3/220.short

Clinical Nutrition. June 2006. Volume 25, Issue 3, Pages 533–536
Rice protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome
Iva Hojsak, Mirjana Kljaić-Turkalj, Zrinjka Mišak, Sanja Kolaček
"This report shows that even hypoallergenic foods such as rice may cause FPIES"
http://www.clinicalnutritionjournal.com/article/S0261-5614(05)00231-1/abstract

Rev Med Liege. 2014 Jul-Aug;69(7-8):412-4.
Food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome caused by fish ingestion. A case report.
"Cow's milk and soy protein are most often responsible, but FPIES may be caused by solid foods such as egg white, wheat, rice, nuts, chicken and fish."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25158381

Current Opinion in Allergy & Clinical Immunology. August 2009 - Volume 9 - Issue 4 - p 371–377
Food protein-induced enterocolitis syndrome
Nowak-Węgrzyn, Annaa; Muraro, Antonellab
"Rice is the most common solid food causing FPIES. Rice FPIES is associated with more severe reactions than other foods. Cow's milk and soy are the most common causes of FPIES, but cereal grains (rice, oat, and barley), fish, poultry, and vegetables may also cause FPIES."
http://journals.lww.com/co-allergy/...rotein_induced_enterocolitis_syndrome.16.aspx

So now, I invite you to substantiate your claim that allergies are not serious and syndromes do not exist; I'm waiting with baited breathe to read your evidence.
 
Snarky91 said:
Show me a documented case of someone who cannot eat carbs but can eat protein and fats just fine. There. The burden of proof is on you since you started this whole debacle.
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Didn't homosapiens manage just fine for 2.5 million years prior to the advent of neolithic culture 6000 yrs ago..?
 
Friends, enemies, I believe what caught my attention to this thread was a statement along the lines of 'I have a friend who has a massive food allergy such that he can't eat ANY carbs at all.'

I don't believe such an extreme statement is true. It needs to be qualified. At the same time I understand from time to time we all exaggerate to give a certain patina of ideological style on topics we're familiar with. In fact, this is almost surely an issue dealing with what we writers like to call rhetoric. I have no problem with it. But since the guy is USUALLY so much on his p's and q's about being straightforward and scientific mode of writing style it does make me laugh a little when I see his rhetoric manifest and take form.
 
Snarky91 said:
Friends, enemies, I believe what caught my attention to this thread was a statement along the lines of 'I have a friend who has a massive food allergy such that he can't eat ANY carbs at all.'

I don't believe such an extreme statement is true. It needs to be qualified. At the same time I understand from time to time we all exaggerate to give a certain patina of ideological style on topics we're familiar with. In fact, this is almost surely an issue dealing with what we writers like to call rhetoric. I have no problem with it. But since the guy is USUALLY so much on his p's and q's about being straightforward and scientific mode of writing style it does make me laugh a little when I see his rhetoric manifest and take form.
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I believe CFC put forward suitable material to substantiate his previous statements...

Do you have any intention of countering with science based evidence, or will you continue posting meaningless gibberish..??
 
He said his friend can't eat carbs AT ALL due to food protein induced enetercolitis syndrome. I checked out this syndrome. There WILL NEVER be a fucking case of any syndrome where a person can't tolerate ANY carbs yet they can tolerate proteins and fats. NEVER. This is pure myth and fantasy. Yes, this syndrome can be incited by some foods that happen to be carbohydrate staples. But this will never ever be a condition where the body rejects all carbs. Show me ONE documented CASE study where this was proven to be the case... will never find it. I say his friend can eat plenty of carbs fine and if this isn't the casser well FPIES is not the culprit because nowhere in documented literature does it say this syndrome is caused by carbs. In fact in some cases it will say it's caused by milk fish soy vegetables... wait this sounds like all the food groups.

I'm done here. Anyone can say anything anecdote about friend but when the assertion is he can't eat any carbs and he's living on roast chicken give me a break? What incentive to lie? I don't fucking know people make up embellish all the time maybe his friend is liar or has other health conditions. Does he live with so called friend and see what he does 24/7 some things husband doesn't even tell wife and vice versa but we have to accept this grandiose hearsay.

Now edit rearrange modifu my posts whatever you want under some pretense of disrupting the forum I'm sure we're reaching this point now. Sorry.
 
With your reaction you'd think I was claiming to have seen Bigfoot. It's a food allergy - very rare, yes, but hardly mind-blowing. I brought him up precisely because I find him an interesting anecdote when we consider what's possible regarding macronutrient intake - he's very muscular, lean, does tons of cardio, and yet eats no carbs in the usual sense (pasta, rice, bread etc). This means no big insulin spikes for him (though gluconeogenesis via aminos obviously occurs), and yet it doesn't seem to harm his energy or progress - which goes directly to OP's question.

FWIW I know he eats Macadamia nuts, Avocados and something called Warrigal Greens (a native Australian plant - he's Aussie), all of which contain small amounts of carbs, as does chicken. However I doubt he's going to eat a potato and record himself vomiting for your pleasure. Thus if you don't believe me so be it, but rather than rationally query or discuss this, you essentially said I'm talking crap and went on an unscientific diatribe about allergies and syndromes being 'bullshit' to justify your opinion. Yet you call me provocative? And still you require more 'proof', yet provide none yourself.
 
Snarky91 said:
He said his friend can't eat carbs AT ALL due to food protein induced enetercolitis syndrome. I checked out this syndrome. There WILL NEVER be a fucking case of any syndrome where a person can't tolerate ANY carbs yet they can tolerate proteins and fats. NEVER. This is pure myth and fantasy. Yes, this syndrome can be incited by some foods that happen to be carbohydrate staples. But this will never ever be a condition where the body rejects all carbs. Show me ONE documented CASE study where this was proven to be the case... will never find it. I say his friend can eat plenty of carbs fine and if this isn't the casser well FPIES is not the culprit because nowhere in documented literature does it say this syndrome is caused by carbs. In fact in some cases it will say it's caused by milk fish soy vegetables... wait this sounds like all the food groups.

I'm done here. Anyone can say anything anecdote about friend but when the assertion is he can't eat any carbs and he's living on roast chicken give me a break? What incentive to lie? I don't fucking know people make up embellish all the time maybe his friend is liar or has other health conditions. Does he live with so called friend and see what he does 24/7 some things husband doesn't even tell wife and vice versa but we have to accept this grandiose hearsay.

Now edit rearrange modifu my posts whatever you want under some pretense of disrupting the forum I'm sure we're reaching this point now. Sorry.
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Someone is a very angry little man.... :)
 
Yes, many people can get on fine without carbs and get big. I agree. It will be bad for a little while then will feel better. Not ideal for bodybuilding in terms of working out intensely but it will work. Very separate from can't eat carbs» does fine without carbs. The latter is covered aplenty by ketogenic diet debate leading freaks who disparage carbs every day for a new reason.
 
I used to do a large amount of carbs when bulking, but have since swapped much of that to fats. It makes it much easier to stomach what I need to get down, and I cannot say I ever noticed any positive/negative in terms of energy levels of efficacy of a bulk.
 
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