Elven Warriorr
Bluelighter
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Keep ecstasy illegal. There will be way more deaths due to people dehydrating themselves while dancing, if and when ecstasy becomes legalized.
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DPMC Moderators: tryptakid
UK - Warnings Over Fatal Ectasy Tablets In The South
- Thread starter poledriver
- Start date
Keep ecstasy illegal. There will be way more deaths due to people dehydrating themselves while dancing, if and when ecstasy becomes legalized.
ro4eva
Bluelighter
Legalize mdma, don't refer to it as ecstasy, put an age limit on it, include a pamphlet when someone wants to buy some and also a complimentary bottle of water so that (s)he realizes why it was included.
PurpleKush1
Bluelighter
Almost every post from you is false,except the things conerning cannabis. There will be alot less deaths, because pills wont contain shit such as PMA, Pma + Mdma, Mdma+ DXM, Mdma + diphenydramine (some of the diamonds in canada), etc. People will know what they get exacctly, and if you just advertise to drink water when you are under effects, you reccommend the perfect dosage, death will be almost non existent. Most of them will be the people who dont agree with harm reduction, and who eat 15 tabs in a night while dancing like fools, drinking alcohol instead of water and adding drugs to the mix. All drugs shoul;d be legalised,overdoses and drug murders will go down so much it will seem insane.
foolsgold
Bluelighter
The deaths, seven in Belfast and one in the north west of Northern Ireland, were of people in their 20s and 30s.
The chief medical officer said those who took the tablets may have believed they were taking ecstasy.
Police have advised people to be particularly careful if they are offered green coloured tablets with a logo of a crown or castle on them.
They are waiting for the results of forensic tests before deciding on an appropriate course of action.
They have warned members of the public: not to take controlled drugs, prescription medication that has not been prescribed to them and not to mix either with alcohol.
The chief medical officer, Dr Michael McBride, has written to various health professionals alerting them to the deaths.
He said that while details were limited at this stage, it appeared that a number of unmarked white tablets, may be involved, along with alcohol.
He said those taking the tablets may have believed that they were ecstasy, but that they had not yet been tested to establish what they were.
Owen O'Neill from the Public Health Agency said the news was a "worrying development".
"People don't really understand that synthetic drugs all have different effects and if you mix alcohol with it you are not aware, you are not totally in control and you may overdose or overuse," he said.
"There have always been risks associated with illegal drugs, there is no quality control in that business." just read this on bbc news dnt knw if the same lot of deaths
The chief medical officer said those who took the tablets may have believed they were taking ecstasy.
Police have advised people to be particularly careful if they are offered green coloured tablets with a logo of a crown or castle on them.
They are waiting for the results of forensic tests before deciding on an appropriate course of action.
They have warned members of the public: not to take controlled drugs, prescription medication that has not been prescribed to them and not to mix either with alcohol.
The chief medical officer, Dr Michael McBride, has written to various health professionals alerting them to the deaths.
He said that while details were limited at this stage, it appeared that a number of unmarked white tablets, may be involved, along with alcohol.
He said those taking the tablets may have believed that they were ecstasy, but that they had not yet been tested to establish what they were.
Owen O'Neill from the Public Health Agency said the news was a "worrying development".
"People don't really understand that synthetic drugs all have different effects and if you mix alcohol with it you are not aware, you are not totally in control and you may overdose or overuse," he said.
"There have always been risks associated with illegal drugs, there is no quality control in that business." just read this on bbc news dnt knw if the same lot of deaths
Elven Warriorr
Bluelighter
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How exactly does the combinations of esctasy and those other drugs combined cause people to die?
poledriver
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Yeah I posted a separate thread about that, I was wondering if I should have just added it to here, but I came to a quick conclusion it wasn't the same area or pills, it's good to have it here too.
foolsgold
Bluelighter
i've been told off for double posting tonight so played it safe 
also been adding this to a market places that sells a lot of pills as a heads up but don't think they really care in there
also been adding this to a market places that sells a lot of pills as a heads up but don't think they really care in there
23536
Bluelight Crew
I think it's good that there's a seperate thread about it because this one is UK and that one is Northern Ireland. Plus, it's not at all clear that the same substance was in both batches.
I think threads should also be started in EADD.
23536
Bluelight Crew
PMA and MDMA can be fatal together because PMA is an MAOI. When you combine an MAOI with a serotonergic like MDMA, you are at very high risk for serotonin syndrome.
PurpleKush1
Bluelighter
Really? Mdma + pma for example can cause most of the time serotonin syndrome which is deadly. Mdma + Dxm can cause the same thing, resulting in death again if things go sour. Even if you dont die serotonin syndrome is no joke. There was a case recently in which a woman took E + coke + mephedrone and died, cardiac arrest i think. Mdma + amphetamine or Mdma + methamphetamine causes overheating and mroe dehyadration than mdma alone, i dont know about any deaths for that. Mdma + coke, while it is completly pointless because one blocks the other kinda, can be very dangerous heartwise. If some body takes MDMA onyl, the cances they have to die from it are almost non exsitant.
Elven Warriorr
Bluelighter
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Yes. I have actually heard some of the arguments that people make in favor of drug legalization, such as "personal freedoms", and "people's bad habits aren't the government's business", and I do not find those arguments to be compelling at all. I feel that there's no need to cause more harm to our society from more drugs. However, ironically, some of the harms from some drugs is a direct result of their illegal status.
However, if people are dying from drugs because some drugs aren't being regulated safely (because of their illegal status), then legalizing at least some drugs would stop a lot of the harm that results from drug usage, because those drugs will heavily regulated more safely if they were legalized.
PurpleKush1
Bluelighter
Well i dont agree with you, i think personal freedom is a very good argument. Why do people have te right to choose what they eat, how many exercise they get, who they fuck, but they cant chose if they want to get high on something? If you forget the governement it is completely illogical. The governement should worry about their problems and leave us the fuck alone. Everything should be legalised. FOr example by legalizing MDMA deaths because of it would be like non xistant. Same logic with H, though people would still die in OD's the amount would be greatly reduced. Lets say you are used to shoot up three bags at a time, then one day the diesel is a bit purer so you shoot up the the same amoutn whitout knowing, bam you OD. Cocaine wouldnt be cut with levamisole and all kinds of sorry shit. LSD woud be LSD and not that sorry ass excuse for a psydechelic that is 25-NBOME. You cant die from LSD but apparently you can from NBOME. Anyways you get the point.
Elven Warriorr
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Legalizing LSD would not make it any safer. The LSD itself makes people have bad trips, which causes them to be a danger to themselves and the other people that are around them. LSD has even caused violence in some instances. Right now, in contrary to cannabis, very few people actually even use LSD. If we legalize LSD, then way more people will use it, which will lead to way more bad trips, etc.
Drug usage is simply not just a matter of personal freedom. People that are high on LSD are not just harming themselves, they are harming everybody else that's around them when they have some bad trips. So, I would most certainly not legalize LSD.
Even with ecstasy, even though legalized ecstasy wouldn't be laced with anything (which causes so many deaths, laced esctasy), people would still die from dancing for hours while high without drinking water.
poledriver
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I think you are wrong. LSD has been used for along time by alot of people, hardly any deaths ever from it (maybe one I recall reading about but I think that person may have injected it or had an insane amount or something) anyway, alot of the harm is coming from things sold as lsd, that are sometimes even mentioned as lsd by the media (as the trips are made to look exactly like lsd) but actually contain a totally different chemical that can be alot more potent than lsd. If lsd for example was legal, people would be getting real lsd, not nbome or dox, and would also be getting a set dose and not having bad trips as you mentioned.
It's the same with 'ecstasy' most of the harm comes from Adulterated batches because of no regulation, and no set doses, who know what's in it, who's made it, in what environment, and how much active ingredients it has in it etc.
Same with cannabis, because it is so illegal in most of the world, we have synthetic cannabis, which alot of people are using, sometimes to avoid drug testing for cannabis. With synthetic cannabis we have already seen more deaths than with lsd, and synthetic cannabis is only a relatively new product. If real cannabis was legal, people wouldnt have to use synthetic cannabis at all, thus less people having health issues and or dying.
The money from legalised drugs (be it mdma, lsd, cannabis, whatever) could be wisely used to fund things like more rehabs and detox centres and more education and public awareness ads and campaigns, kind of like we are seeing now with tobacco products in many places in the world. I think I read recently that tobacco is the only recreationally used drug that is in decline in its use and they said that was from the public awareness campaigns and education.
Loads of people have issues with cannabis for their health too, it can be a dangerous drug for some people to use, people can crash cars and do all sorts of stupid shit, but still alot of people can use it responsibly with no problems at all, same with lsd, mdma, meth, heroin, and even more so if the doses and ingredients are all listed on the packaging along with quit lines and help lines and other things like that.
I doubt it, I don't know how many people have died directly from that over the time ecstasy has been used (which would be over 40 odd years and by millions and millions of people worldwide) but I'd guess it's a pretty small amount, I hear more about people dying whilst on it from drinking too much water, these issues could be addressed with awareness ads and info on the packaging when it is sold, so more people know of both those risks.
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PurpleKush1
Bluelighter
Ok fuck this i tried AGAIN and for the last fucking time to be polite and comprehensive, yet what i get in return is still the same sorry ass anti drug propaganda. Very few bad trips on LSD lead to violent behavior. Just as pcp wont make you rip out your nutsack and eat it. Look elven, you never did drugs, you obviously dont know alot of people who do, this makes it out that what you think you know about them is mostly false. Mostly myths,dailymail articles and failed statistics. Im not even going to lose my time dissing you anymore, i will simply ignore anything you have to say. fuck that. I have enough arguing about some dumb shit in my life that i dont need to argue for endless posts on the internet. Have a good day.
I think of myself as a rambling paranoiac & then I hear/read about this poisoning of alcohol thing from the prohibition days & I see that in fact there is precedent for this kind of of activity by the authorities & it's not actually that paranoid at all!
I really would rather be paranoid than find that PMA is being deliberately introduced to the Ecstasy scene to up the death rates & increase the availability of anti-drugs propaganda...
23536
Bluelight Crew
Was the addition of methanol to industrial ethanol done after the onset of prohibition?
There is another instance of the US intentionally poisoning recreational drug users, and that is the presence of APAP in hydrocodone formulations. When the Controlled Substances Act was drafted, hydrocodone was left in schedule III (as opposed to II) because it was mixed with APAP. The APAP was clearly seen back then as an abuse deterrent. The 2 questions that come to mind about that are:
1) Did they know in the 1970s that APAP overdoses were fatal?
2) Was the APAP originally added to hydrocodone to toxify it, or to synergize the anesthetic effect?
It seems like someone must have studied the history of this. It's claimed thousands of lives. Nowadays we write books about any little thing. Some celebrity grazed someone's tits 40 years ago: that's a ten-volume set.
There is another instance of the US intentionally poisoning recreational drug users, and that is the presence of APAP in hydrocodone formulations. When the Controlled Substances Act was drafted, hydrocodone was left in schedule III (as opposed to II) because it was mixed with APAP. The APAP was clearly seen back then as an abuse deterrent. The 2 questions that come to mind about that are:
1) Did they know in the 1970s that APAP overdoses were fatal?
2) Was the APAP originally added to hydrocodone to toxify it, or to synergize the anesthetic effect?
It seems like someone must have studied the history of this. It's claimed thousands of lives. Nowadays we write books about any little thing. Some celebrity grazed someone's tits 40 years ago: that's a ten-volume set.
ro4eva
Bluelighter
PMA + MDMA - PMA by itself is quite efficient at raising core body temperatures and heart-rate to dangerous levels. I say efficient because only a small dosage is required, and it happens virtually all the time. MDMA also slightly raises core body temperatures as well as HR, but by itself rarely to dangerous levels. Combine it with PMA however and the results are usually life threatening (if not fatal). Even when used alone, PMA can be extremely dangerous because its therapeutic dosage range is so thin.
MDMA + DXM - The combination may lead to serotonin syndrome, which is considered a medical emergency and can be fatal. Furthermore, DXM inhibits an enzyme in the liver (CYP2D6) which is used to break down and remove MDMA from the body. With the enzyme not being able to do its job (inhibited = switched off), MDMA levels in the body can increase to levels where its adverse effects may be cause for concern, particularly in those who like to chase the high by ingesting another dose a couple of hours later.
MDMA + Diphenhydramine - As a potent anticholinergic, diphenhydramine (among other things) can cause urinary retention. Therefore it's possible that combining with MDMA increases the risk of hyponatremia (water poisoning) as users typically drink water to alleviate dry mouth caused by the MDMA. Like DXM, diphenhydramine is also a CYP2D6 inhibitor.
MDMA + Methamphetamine - IME, this combo can lead to severe dehydration, bruxism (teeth grinding), hypertension, tachycardia, anxiety, paranoia, restlessness, and possible panic attacks in susceptible individuals. It may also increase any neurotoxicity caused by either the meth, or the mdma. Also, some people (at least one that I personally know of) began their meth habit after they bought and used a "meth bomb" (ecstasy pill with lots of methamphetamine, and little to no actual mdma) at a party.
MDMA + Ephedrine/Caffeine - Similar to MDMA + Methamphetamine, only milder in most cases. IME the risk of dehydration is actually worse when combining MDMA with ephedrine.
23536
Bluelight Crew
How does urinary retention lead to hyponatremia?
ro4eva
Bluelighter
Urinary retention can cause hyponatremia by not allowing the kidneys to rid the body of excess water. This leads to an electrolyte imbalance (dangerously low sodium levels in the blood) which - depending on the amount of excess water and sodium levels - can lead to coma and/or death.
MDMA (by an unknown mechanism) has been shown to cause vasopressin secretion, which is an antidiuretic hormone.[1] This by itself has caused fatal hyponatremia in users who drank too much water too quickly.[2]
Diphenhydramine inhibits parasympathetic nerve impulses by selectively blocking the binding of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine to its receptor in nerve cells. The nerve fibers of the parasympathetic system are responsible for the involuntary movement of smooth muscles present in the gastrointestinal tract, urinary tract, lungs, etc.[3] No more nerve impulses to the bladder means urinary retention. Diphenhydramine is strictly contraindicated in anyone with an enlarged prostate for this reason.
Usually you'd have to drink a lot of water and within a quick time period while on either MDMA or diphenhydramine for things to get serious. But combine the vasopressin secretion from the MDMA with a lack of nerve impulses to the bladder due to the diphenhydramine and the risk of developing hyponatremia is increased.
[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16574714
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leah_Betts
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic
Further Reading:
"Urinary retention: a cause of hyponatremia?" - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17119339
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