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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

UK Ketamine Thread v.2 - shortage or not?

Not sure if its still on there, but a while ago there was some actual R-isomer stuff available on certain dingy-websites. A true ket enthusiast would buy this along with some certified S-Isomer and try to come up with the best ratio of isomers to use. Would do it myself, but ive got a shit load of sewing that needs to be done, so just dont have the time.
 
Spliff Politics said:
Not sure if its still on there, but a while ago there was some actual R-isomer stuff available on certain dingy-websites. A true ket enthusiast would buy this along with some certified S-Isomer and try to come up with the best ratio of isomers to use. Would do it myself, but ive got a shit load of sewing that needs to be done, so just dont have the time.
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I spotted that, and I'm almost certain it's just false advertising. Not necessarily 'lying' on behalf of the dealer, in my experience the vast majority of them have little understanding of the chemistry, and even if they sound confident about what they're saying, they're often just going off what they're told by their supplier. It's possible through a long-winded and expensive process to separate the S+ enantiomer from the racemic mixture, but it makes no logistical sense to go through all that for the black market. Personally, I'm of the opinion that almost everything we find on the black market is racemic, with the rare exception of diverted medical supplies. Perhaps someone more versed in chemistry can enlighten us further, I'm only putting the rationale out there.

*Edit* apologies for derailing the thread more into speculation on isomer territory, that always seems to happen haha! It's like the great unanswered question amongst ketheads.
 
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Another problem is; very few people are actually going to know what R-isomer feels like, so even if he did have decent reviews all that means is that its alright ket. Is R-isomer not used medically at all? I agree with everything your saying, although i think theres more S-isomer of there than ya say. At least with S-isomer if you know your ket its quite easy to tell the difference between that and racemic. The majority of ket is racemic, but have come across S-isomer quite a few times. Its actually used medically, so i would imagine thats the reason there is so much of it about compared to R-isomer
 
I dont really buy ket online anyway. Have done plenty of ket to being able to tell the difference between racemic though, no doubt. When i say ive had S-ket quite a few times, this is only due to the countless amount of times and different batches of ket ive had (not showing off, just to put it into perspective).
 
I'm too scared to buy K online if i'm honest. It's something i'd never do, no matter how long the drought lasts. Ha ha. I do miss the days of joyful floaty K. It came back for a bit then went away again. On another note, I never fully understand the whole S isomer R isomer situation. I'd like to have the two side by side, or one one day then one the other to fully notice the differentiation in effects.
 
Spliff Politics said:
Another problem is; very few people are actually going to know what R-isomer feels like, so even if he did have decent reviews all that means is that its alright ket. Is R-isomer not used medically at all? I agree with everything your saying, although i think theres more S-isomer of there than ya say. At least with S-isomer if you know your ket its quite easy to tell the difference between that and racemic. The majority of ket is racemic, but have come across S-isomer quite a few times. Its actually used medically, so i would imagine thats the reason there is so much of it about compared to R-isomer
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No, R- enantiomer Ket has no legitimate use from what I understand, so I'd suggest there is very little incentive for it to be made, even if it can. Like you, I think I might have had S Isomer on a couple of occasions (by pure statistics, in 5 years of frequent and heavy misuse) but I think we usually just don't give enough credit to the psychology of it. A strong enough belief/expectation that what we're about to sniff is "The famous S Ket" will almost guarantee a different experience.
 
My cynical view is that dealers started selling lota of s ketamine when ketamine was scarce so they could mix it with other drugs and claim it was just the difference in isomers. The one time I had s ket it felt like it was mixed with a stimulant.
 
growit&smokeit said:
My cynical view is that dealers started selling lota of s ketamine when ketamine was scarce so they could mix it with other drugs and claim it was just the difference in isomers. The one time I had s ket it felt like it was mixed with a stimulant.
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So very clever mixing ketamine with stimulants lol!

Dioxy said:
No, R- enantiomer Ket has no legitimate use from what I understand, so I'd suggest there is very little incentive for it to be made, even if it can. Like you, I think I might have had S Isomer on a couple of occasions (by pure statistics, in 5 years of frequent and heavy misuse) but I think we usually just don't give enough credit to the psychology of it. A strong enough belief/expectation that what we're about to sniff is "The famous S Ket" will almost guarantee a different experience.
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What's funny though is: Tt's my understanding that s ketamine is produced by separating the isomers of racemic ketamine, opposed to doing an enantiomerically selective synthesis. So what happens to the r isomer? Is it mixed into what is then sold as racemic ketamine? Does racemic ketamine have a much higher market volume? I've always found racemic ketamine much weaker (than it should be!) by dosage than the s isomer eventhough racemic ketamine is infinitely better imho.

EDIT: Never mind, it seems they're actually using a synthesis that yields s-ketamine instead of separating the isomers now. http://www.researchgate.net/publica...er_Created_by_Enantioselective_Aldol_Reaction

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HouseFever said:
You can just simply tell the difference from the effects, not so much recently as the quality of K has been shit for years, but when it was in abundance tenner a gram stuff, you could tell.
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Yep, this! The people i buy from (although reliable 90% of the time) dont really know abouts the whole isomer thing, so when i have bought it off then and it was S-isomer that as influenced at all by dealer talk. IMO its not hard at all to tell the difference and if im not going for a hole i actually prefer racemic to S-isomer.

Dont really agree that its been shit for years though, but it would be a bit tedious to get into another 'old drugs are better than new drugs' debate :D
 
Pingu said:
wobble coming back to brighton in drips and drabs. supposedly back properly on the weekend
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I tried one of these "dribs and drabs last night" and admittedly it was amidst valium and nos, it didn't do anything. And the cheeky fucker selling it is selling it to everyone else at 0.6 for £30... So i would still keep clear of K in brighton imo, until theres a proper influx. problem with brighton is half the dealers are full on ket addicts themselves, so if they get a batch, they either do it all amongst themselves or do loads themselves and cut the rest with either MSG or Salt.
 
I had supposedly racemic K from the ketman the other week and it was much better than anything I've had since the drought kicked in. Dutch R supposedly. Shame it's all dried up as I would've liked to take some away on holiday with me in a week or two.
 
Spliff Politics said:
Dont really agree that its been shit for years though, but it would be a bit tedious to get into another 'old drugs are better than new drugs' debate :D
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Got fuck all to do with "old drugs" vs "new drugs". S-isomer is only available from diverted medical supplies whereas racemic is made specifically for the black market (in legit pharmacuetical factories mostly). Simply a case of abundance is all. S-isormer is much, much rarer by definition is all. Not saying nobody's ever had it cos they have. Just saying that - as mentioned above - Set & Setting (plus ketamine's inherent oddity) are most likely the cause of any perceived difference in the vast majority of cases. There is (off the top of my head) one single S-isomer product available which is the source of all legit S-isomer ketamine. There are dozens of brands of racemic plus all the black market stuff. Do the math(s) as they say.

R-isomer has been produced via custom synth but is ridiculously rare as it's (comparatively) barely active.
 
Shambles said:
Got fuck all to do with "old drugs" vs "new drugs". S-isomer is only available from diverted medical supplies whereas racemic is made specifically for the black market (in legit pharmacuetical factories mostly). Simply a case of abundance is all. S-isormer is much, much rarer by definition is all. Not saying nobody's ever had it cos they have. Just saying that - as mentioned above - Set & Setting (plus ketamine's inherent oddity) are most likely the cause of any perceived difference in the vast majority of cases. There is (off the top of my head) one single S-isomer product available which is the source of all legit S-isomer ketamine. There are dozens of brands of racemic plus all the black market stuff. Do the math(s) as they say.

R-isomer has been produced via custom synth but is ridiculously rare as it's (comparatively) barely active.
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I was just saying about the old drugs vs new drugs debate because i disagreed with Housefever when he said all ketamine is shit these days; nothing more, nothing less.

Or are you saying that ketamine before was in fact better as it was medical grade and large amounts of S-isomer?

Im almost worried to ask these questions as i know it frustrates you when i ask seemingly stupid questions, but if it helps me have a better understanding, then fuck it.
 
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All ketamine I've personally come across in the last couple years has been appalling quality. Has nothing to do with "old vs new" - simply that the folk I buy ket from are either not interested in quality or (as I suspect) tend to cut it themselves :\

There's no doubt that when all ket was from diverted medical supplies and sold for tuppence ha'apenny a gramme things were better. I only caught the tail end of that period at most though. Was a late devoper on the ketamine front :!

And to reitereate, there has never been a large supply of S-isomer ketamine. Not then, not now, not ever. And probably never will be. It's rare stuff.
 
Its just seems to be a common theme these days. People seem to say it about loads of different drugs. The only one in which this is true, is of course mephedrone ;)
 
Having had meph once since the ban I would agree the quality is pisspoor. However, I was also informed that was an especially poor quality batch so frankly have no opinion on it. Coke and speed are poor quality (even the better quality stuff is pretty damn weak compared to the glory days) but other than that I have no particular axe to grind on the "old vs new" discussion. As I said, the quality of the ketamine I personally have had access to over the last couple years has been abysmal and that seems to be a common complaint. However, as the vast majority of ketamine comes as near as dammit pharmaceutically pure the only possible reason for this is it being cut by scumbags. This was never even considered until the legal penalties became so much stricter but - unlike stuff like coke and speed - there is no reason why this has to be the case so really does come down purely to who you know whereas coke and speed come into the country cut to fuck so all but zero chance of ever coming across truly excellent quality. Decent quality yes. But decent ain't excellent is it.
 
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