U.S. Officials Should Be Tried in Mexico

[23536]

U.S. Officials Behind 'Fast and Furious' Gun Sales Should Be Tried in Mexico, Lawmaker Says

While the investigation continues into the U.S. operation that helped send thousands of guns south of the border, Mexican lawmakers say they'll press for extradition and prosecution in Mexico of American officials who authorized and ran the operation.

"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News. "They should be tried in the United States and the Mexican government should also demand that they also be tried in Mexico since the incidents took place here. There should be trials in both places."

Arce is chairman of Mexico's Commission for National Security, a congressional panel similar to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee.

His point of view is shared by many Mexican politicians, including Sen. Santiago Creel, a former Interior Minister and the likely presidential nominee next year of the National Action Party to succeed Felipe Calderone, also of PAN.

"I think we should at least try to prove that what happened in Mexico must be sanctioned by Mexican laws and under our sovereignty," Creel told us. "What can't happen is that this now ends on an administrative sanction, or a resignation. No, no, no. Human lives were lost here. A decision was made to carry out an operation that brought very high risk to human lives."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...icials-responsible-for-botched/#ixzz1RFSlbNbw

 

[dimensiontripping]

As so many americans just celebrated the 4th of july and their god damn independence from the rest of the world. maybe they can reflect on how amazing their country truly has been.

 

[cj]

Yes they should be tried and imprisoned in Mexico the United States often demands drug criminals be brought and tried in the United States it is only right for the reverse to be true.

 

[onthenodintulsa]

^This

 

[shishigami]

Damn right they should be.

 

[qwe]

well, this'd be a start...

the president, top generals, top cia staff should all answer, in international court, for the dozens of countries we've invaded, women raped, both de-facto and de-jure subjugation of people, torture, and more.

dream on, right 8)

our only hope as humans... is to embrace humanism.

 

[Herbal~Jah]

dude you guys have to realize, if you really wanna "be all righteous" with convicting and imprisoning people (officials in the gov't) for immoral or wrong actions then we would pretty much be imprisoning every single person in EVERY single government around the world. Not just the US, all you guys have to realize your governments in the UK, or wherever else are just as bad and immoral as the US gov't..

 

[HighonLife]

dude you guys have to realize, if you really wanna "be all righteous" with convicting and imprisoning people (officials in the gov't) for immoral or wrong actions then we would pretty much be imprisoning every single person in EVERY single government around the world. Not just the US, all you guys have to realize your governments in the UK, or wherever else are just as bad and immoral as the US gov't..

Soo your saying no one should be held accountable and people in the government should be able to do as they pleaase?

 

[onthenodintulsa]

qwe-we can dream, right? I agree with everything you said and would love to see that happen one day but we all know it'll never happen unfortunately

 

[Newbierock]

dude you guys have to realize, if you really wanna "be all righteous" with convicting and imprisoning people (officials in the gov't) for immoral or wrong actions then we would pretty much be imprisoning every single person in EVERY single government around the world. Not just the US, all you guys have to realize your governments in the UK, or wherever else are just as bad and immoral as the US gov't..

Have you bothered reading the thread? Does it say ANYWHERE that other countries have never done anything remotely shady?

No, it doesn't. It just happens this thread is about the US govt so it's gonna be filled with talk about, you know the US govt. and what they've done...

 

[23536]

who're they gonna extradite? Eric Holder? They're dreaming.

 

[SangerRainsford]

"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News. "They should be tried in the United States and the Mexican government should also demand that they also be tried in Mexico since the incidents took place here. There should be trials in both places."

unsure if it's this random mexican senator or myself, but one of us clearly doesn't understand how "jurisdiction" works.
/hoping it's me, otherwise this guy, and the article's editor, sound retarded.

 

[qwe]

dude you guys have to realize, if you really wanna "be all righteous" with convicting and imprisoning people (officials in the gov't) for immoral or wrong actions then we would pretty much be imprisoning every single person in EVERY single government around the world. Not just the US, all you guys have to realize your governments in the UK, or wherever else are just as bad and immoral as the US gov't..

i had this very thought when i was writing my post.

tool proposes a solution in their album aenema.

if we "start over", though (eg, let's say every human being's bank account is set to the same amount one night, and all power structures crumble)... we're already in these behavioral patterns. a new but similar dog-eat-dog world will emerge from that "blank slate world" (because it wouldn't really be a blank slate at all).

the only solution that i can see is slow progress, where everybody is afforded the basic material needs to "self actualize".

 

[lethe_drowned]

it's not gonna happen, mexico's been clocked on human rights violations i don't know about the usa, but in the uk our government does not extradite to country's that abuse human rights.

 

[Budisti]

well, this'd be a start...

the president, top generals, top cia staff should all answer, in international court, for the dozens of countries we've invaded, women raped, both de-facto and de-jure subjugation of people, torture, and more.

dream on, right

our only hope as humans... is to embrace humanism.

dude you guys have to realize, if you really wanna "be all righteous" with convicting and imprisoning people (officials in the gov't) for immoral or wrong actions then we would pretty much be imprisoning every single person in EVERY single government around the world. Not just the US, all you guys have to realize your governments in the UK, or wherever else are just as bad and immoral as the US gov't..

Fuckit! lets create a new government %)

 

[SangerRainsford]

if we "start over", though (eg, let's say every human being's bank account is set to the same amount one night, and all power structures crumble)... we're already in these behavioral patterns. a new but similar dog-eat-dog world will emerge from that "blank slate world" (because it wouldn't really be a blank slate at all).

VERY well said. (it's the reason i always just nod and shake my head when ppl get all ideological about "just redistribute it all, then things'll be fair")

 

[SangerRainsford]

((anyone wanna clarify on my question of whether it's even possible (legally/wrt jurisdiction) for these folk to be tried in both places, as that mexican official suggests?))

 

[psychomimetic]

it's not gonna happen, mexico's been clocked on human rights violations i don't know about the usa, but in the uk our government does not extradite to country's that abuse human rights.

I think the US has more human rights violations then Mexico by far. I know a guy who did prison time in the US and Mexico, he said the US prison was worse.

 

[advancedneuropathy]

((anyone wanna clarify on my question of whether it's even possible (legally/wrt jurisdiction) for these folk to be tried in both places, as that mexican official suggests?))

I'm by no means a student of law, but I am a student of reality. And reality says that if it is the US committing the act, they ride. That is, Mexico will not get a shot at those involved. Throughout American history the US has committed the same horrific acts that it claims to stand against. You can go back to early American history and find deception against the American people to justify political and strategic gain. Even those in power that have stood before a court have almost always walked away with punitive damages that do not even come close to measuring up against the crimes they stood trial for. This is not exclusive to the US, but considering the size and power of the states...should never be ignored. The US and Mexico have an interesting relationship. Mexico, in recent past, is infamous for having a corrupt government. The US certainly hasn't helped, but the Mexican government/military is equally responsible for the disaster that has come about largely due to the drug trade. Many Mexican and American civilians have died over this "war". Simple solution. Stop this calculated "war on drugs". Too many people have died because of the arrogance of a few.

This is relevant because if there was no war on drugs, there would be no need for massive amounts of firearms in Mexico. The corruption between both countries is almost completely due to the power struggle between cartels and the self-righteous, self-preserving policies that are enforced by governments that have agendas kind only to those involved.

Not to say that corruption would disappear without the war on drugs, but this false war has killed and imprisoned astonishing amounts of victims of circumstance. Don't get distracted with byproduct. Peace...

 

[artic]

^^This.

I am a resident of the southwest, and have seen the affect of the war in Mexico. I have come to believe that what is happening in Mexico is a civil war between cartels. The government in Mexico has always been bought and paid for by the cartel with the most money, so the government hardly even figures into the picture. In my mind, the illegal immigrants who everyone gets their panties in a bunch over are refugees, and their situation should be treated as such. I went a little off topic, sorry. Anyway...

I do think that the officials who allowed guns to be delivered to cartels should be charged, but I think their chances of receiving due process are very low in Mexico. For this reason I think they should be charged here in the US. They should be crucified by the media, then given their own TV shows a few years later.

There is no justice. We never do the right thing, but neither does anyone else.

---------------------------------

I think the US has more human rights violations then Mexico by far. I know a guy who did prison time in the US and Mexico, he said the US prison was worse.

It depends on who you are, where you are, and why you are there. For the most part, I would cry "bullshit" on this statement. Many jails in Mexico won't feed you, and you are dependent on your family to bring you food while you are in prison. If you don't have any family you have to survive on whatever scraps you can get from other prisoners.

With that said, prison in the US is kind of the same in that it depends on who you are, where you are, and why you are there. Prison in the US is still no joke, but it is a lot better than most places. There is plenty of food and drugs, you get to move around and work out quite a bit, we have libraries and schools in prison. The biggest problems in US prisons are drugs, fights, and stabbings. I'm pretty sure those are problems in just about every prison. You just gotta keep to yourself if you are worried about it, though.

I can kind of see what you are saying, but I still disagree.