i know it can get a little serious in here but thanks for the laugh - funniest thing i've read in here for days
alasdair
Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion
- Thread starter Draven26
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alasdair
mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2011
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Derschieber
Bluelighter
No, I don't think so. Hypocrisy (in my mind) is when I tell you it's wrong to steal stuff, and then going out stealing things myself.
What the loony leftists "demand" is for everyone to be concerned with the feeeelings of trans people, (under threat of imprisonment no less), and therefor not giving a hoot about how others feel about that.
Text book hypocrisy.
funniest thing i've read in here for days
I knew you would be entertained
It's not that I would lack the courtesy of addressing someone in his or her preferred pronoun. The problem (and tell-tale sign) is the coercion behind it. This is no longer mere censorship. It is the act of forcing others to say something against their wishes. alasdairm, we can laugh about these things, and I'm glad we can. The unfortunates who fall into these communist's clutches will not be laughing, as they are being punished severely. In the USSR people were also coerced to speak a certain way. Political correctness is how the Communist cancer becomes metastasized.
Are you ok with that? Forcing people to say things they do not believe? Using all necessary force to lock them into cages if they refuse to submit to the demands to say the words? This is progress?
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Bagseed
Bluelighter
you demand that some people shouldn't have equal rights because of some other people believing in a loony sky god get offended about how other people live their lives...
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Okay I agree that a law punishing people for not using a person's preferred pronoun (like, how would someone even necessarily know? The potential for abuse of this is great) is absurd. That's pretty loony. However, it's difficult for me to imagine how you fail to see how the difference between forcing religious beliefs on everyone and just minding your own fucking business about someone's sexuality. You and others of your mindset keep trying to frame the entire gender identity debate and the validity of it as a concept using the most extreme examples of it going wrong. As if a stupid law in one jurisdiction means that transgender people are invalid. Sorry, but you don't get the right to dictate to other people how they feel about themselves because you choose to capitalize the H in "He" and "Him" when referring to a magical deity who may or may not be uncomfortable with certain kinds of people (that He, in His perfection, made the way they are). I think it's wrong to make that New York law you cited, too, that's too far. But I also think you should just mind your own business and let people feel about themselves how they're going to feel about themselves. People should have the right to self-identify as they feel, for it to be otherwise is the thought police. Everyone just wants equal rights and respect. That's what this whole conversation is about.
While, as I said, the law is absurd... don't you think it's good to be concerned with the feelings of other people? That doesn't sound selfish to me (as you suggested of the "loony left"). Sounds like something maybe Jesus said, or quite like it...?
w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
The law isn't absurd if you actually read it.
It doesn't apply to people who accidentally mis gender someone. It only applies to people who deliberately discriminate against transgender people.
It doesn't apply to people who accidentally mis gender someone. It only applies to people who deliberately discriminate against transgender people.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Well that's better. Even so, I think it's overboard to legislate what words people can use. I mean racial slurs aren't even illegal, just frowned upon socially (in most circles anyway). Now preventing housing and hiring discrimination with the law, that kind of thing I can totally get behind. I don't think legislating word usage is going to help dissuade discrimination, in fact it's just going to give people who fear and despise trans people ammunition to feel justified. IMO.
right.
call me crazy but if a person asked me to refer to them as 'he' or 'she' or whichever pronoun they prefer, i would just do it. because, you know, it's the right thing to do.
for me it's no different to a name. if your name is robert and i call you rob and you don't like that you say to me "hey, i don't like being called rob - would you mind calling me robert" then i guess i could take a principled stand, nobly telling you that, no, i am going to continue to call you rob because my freedom matters more than your sjw feelings, rob.
or i could just call you robert and not be a dick about it...
alasdair
call me crazy but if a person asked me to refer to them as 'he' or 'she' or whichever pronoun they prefer, i would just do it. because, you know, it's the right thing to do.
for me it's no different to a name. if your name is robert and i call you rob and you don't like that you say to me "hey, i don't like being called rob - would you mind calling me robert" then i guess i could take a principled stand, nobly telling you that, no, i am going to continue to call you rob because my freedom matters more than your sjw feelings, rob.
or i could just call you robert and not be a dick about it...
alasdair
w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
The newest amendments have only to do with discrimination in the workplace, something that is only present in 21 states to prevent workplace discrimination for LGBT people, but is much more robust in NY for trans people specifically.
Sucks that most states don't do anything at all. We still have a long way to go...
Sucks that most states don't do anything at all. We still have a long way to go...
Derschieber
Bluelighter
I think you're all forgetting that in many cases these so-called trans-people are aggressive & obnoxious individuals. Actively pandering to a rude and aggressive person's demands may results in their mental condition deteriorating. Being a trans-person does not automatically elicit respect. Not at all:
I have never met a trans-person, but it is highly unlikely that I would call a man "she" or "her" when the dude looks and acts like a man, making demands backed up with threats, just because he's wearing women's cloths.
Much better to call the police and let them deal with the criminal.
I have never met a trans-person, but it is highly unlikely that I would call a man "she" or "her" when the dude looks and acts like a man, making demands backed up with threats, just because he's wearing women's cloths.
Much better to call the police and let them deal with the criminal.
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w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
Nope. We all picked up on that.
Derschieber
Bluelighter
Interesting question. Should we concern ourselves with the feelings of others? In most cases, no. We have traffic rules. You feel in hurry right now? Stiff shit. We don't care. Don't run the red light.
So who's feelings should we concern ourselves with? Family, friends...occasionally a stranger in distress. The feelings of a child-rapist or the feelings of his victim? It all depends, doesn't it. If the rapist is your teen son, maybe you will feel for him.
In most cases no. Jesus said nothing about pandering to the feelings of others. In any case, we only have a (very) limited supply of empathy to go around. Use it wisely. Don't go feeling sorry for Hitler, k?
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Eh... wow. All I'll say is, again, I would like to point out your conflating of specific individuals with an entire group. You're really something else, man.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Traffic rules don't have anything to do with feelings, they exist so people don't crash and die, for there to be order to a bunch of people operating dangerous machines together. I fail to see how the existence of traffic laws has any bearing on the validity of transgender. because let's face it, it's abundantly clear based on your posts that your problem is that you don't respect a person's right to view their own gender how they want. It's not about your rights being jeopardized, that's just the excuse you're using. You think there is something morally wrong with transgender. Unfortunately, in a free society, you don't get to dictate to others what they believe based on your own sense of morality.
Jesus said to love thy neighbor as thyself. To turn the other cheek. To not judge. Empathy begets empathy. It is not limited, unless you restrict it. I was raised Christian and grew up attending church every week, was in a youth group, actually studied the Bible. If you claim to follow Jesus but you're saying this kind of stuff then you are sadly off base. You and a whole lot of other people. You wonder why people hate on Christianity? it's because of this kind of shit. Christianity is a beautiful religion at its core and I know a lot of great Christians. But like everything else, it gets corrupted. It's fucking sad.
Derschieber
Bluelighter
@Xorkoth I don't wonder why you hate on Christianity. You hate God and His standards. That much is clear.
Reg. "your conflating of specific individuals with an entire group" No, it is you who pretends to be speaking on behalf of an entire group - a group that doesn't even exist. there is no group, only individuals.
Your entire pretend-moral outrage is as phony as Bruce Jenner's eye-lashes lmao
Reg. "your conflating of specific individuals with an entire group" No, it is you who pretends to be speaking on behalf of an entire group - a group that doesn't even exist. there is no group, only individuals.
Your entire pretend-moral outrage is as phony as Bruce Jenner's eye-lashes lmao
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
But I don't hate Christianity. I just hate what it has become for some people who claim to follow it. But whatever man, this isn't going to go anywhere and I kinda think you're just fucking with me right now. In fact I hope you are.
I don't believe there is a singular deity called God who passes judgment and dictates morality. I believe we are all the universe experiencing itself subjectively. I still see the beauty in Jesus' ministry, though. Not the Old Testament bullshit he was preaching against, but the words of Jesus. I was once a believer but as I grew up I realized a different truth. For myself. I don't expect you to believe what I believe and I couldn't care less if you do. Would be nice if everyone extended that same courtesy to each other.
Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, and I'm gonna go to hell. Well that's my business, not yours.
I don't believe there is a singular deity called God who passes judgment and dictates morality. I believe we are all the universe experiencing itself subjectively. I still see the beauty in Jesus' ministry, though. Not the Old Testament bullshit he was preaching against, but the words of Jesus. I was once a believer but as I grew up I realized a different truth. For myself. I don't expect you to believe what I believe and I couldn't care less if you do. Would be nice if everyone extended that same courtesy to each other.
Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, and I'm gonna go to hell. Well that's my business, not yours.
Derschieber
Bluelighter
Keep in mind that you brought Jesus into this conversation.
So what happened to empathy, morality..out the window suddenly - when it suits you. Going to hell - It's your business, not mine.
But calling a man in a dress a "he" - that's different is it? You'll make it your business, presumably because misgendering is more important than going to hell...
again, your (and my) position is pretentious. I'm guessing you have never met a trans-person either.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Actually a friend of mine is trans, male to female. She's really cool and I accidentally call her "he" and "dude" pretty often because she looks like a man, she knows I don't mean to disrespect her and doesn't hold it against me. She's bad ass, really good musician, really nice person, we jam sometimes. She's my good friend's roommate.
I live in an extremely liberal town with a large "queer" population (by that I mean non-normal gender/sexuality). I have met a lot of trans people.
I brought up Jesus because of your mentioning of God and religious morals. How exactly did something I post suggest to you that empathy and morality were suddenly and conveniently out the window for me? I'm talking about giving each other mutual respect to be able to think and believe what we want. I honestly don't follow your logic. You're not really making sense.
I live in an extremely liberal town with a large "queer" population (by that I mean non-normal gender/sexuality). I have met a lot of trans people.
I brought up Jesus because of your mentioning of God and religious morals. How exactly did something I post suggest to you that empathy and morality were suddenly and conveniently out the window for me? I'm talking about giving each other mutual respect to be able to think and believe what we want. I honestly don't follow your logic. You're not really making sense.
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
Frankly... I don't give a shit what the facts are. I've gone looking out of my own curiosity in the past, and came to the conclusion that a neurological basis for transgender people was at least plausible if not likely.
But say it weren't... I don't think I really care.
There's a degree to which I think people should just show other people respect to their feelings. If someone born physically male feels they're female, or vice versa, who is anyone else to argue with them about it?
Why does it matter, why should it matter, to me or to anyone else here, how they wish to be addressed? If you don't really believe they're "born into the wrong body" you still don't have to be an asshole about it and you can still be polite and respectful.
Honestly, such flagrant disrespect for other people's feelings offends me a lot more than the idea of transgender people.
But say it weren't... I don't think I really care.
There's a degree to which I think people should just show other people respect to their feelings. If someone born physically male feels they're female, or vice versa, who is anyone else to argue with them about it?
Why does it matter, why should it matter, to me or to anyone else here, how they wish to be addressed? If you don't really believe they're "born into the wrong body" you still don't have to be an asshole about it and you can still be polite and respectful.
Honestly, such flagrant disrespect for other people's feelings offends me a lot more than the idea of transgender people.
There's a big controversy in Canada right now over this case. A MTF trans woman who has been known to exhibit misogynistic, sexist and objectifying views against women has filed a Human Rights case because a women's only waxing service would not wax her male genitalia. She claims that her penis is "female" because she identifies as female. So far 16 estheticians have lost their jobs because of this crack pot who thinks he (she, whatever) is entitled to have his male genitalia handled by women.
It's really fascinating to watch the natural conclusion of gender deconstructionism and queer theory play out like this. It's to the point where women aren't allowed to say no to men anymore because they're actually "women" and not men. So women are supposed to not be shocked or feel uncomfortable by penises swinging around their change room because of political correctness.
How long are these people going to keep trying to warp social reality with their cognitive dissonance?
It's really fascinating to watch the natural conclusion of gender deconstructionism and queer theory play out like this. It's to the point where women aren't allowed to say no to men anymore because they're actually "women" and not men. So women are supposed to not be shocked or feel uncomfortable by penises swinging around their change room because of political correctness.
How long are these people going to keep trying to warp social reality with their cognitive dissonance?