Opioids Tramadol withdrawal and vicodin

[grapeape77]

Hi, I've been reading threads for a while in an attempt to get courage to stop taking Tramadol. I first took it after I tapered down off of Methadone. I was on methadone for 3 years and my highest dose was 100 mg. I tapered very slowly and after my 1 mg dose, I started to feel withdrawal symptoms the next day. I started Tramadol to relieve that and used it for about 3 weeks and then stopped. I was only using 100 mg a day. I had no withdrawal symptoms at the time, but I was also going through a divorce, things were chaotic, life was new, so I didn't have time to focus on anything going on with my body. (maybe a lot of it is mental, yes?)

I started taking it again about 2 years later when I got in a relationship that really stressed me out, and I used Tramadol to self-medicate. Soon I was taking them all the time. Fast forward 3 years and I'm taking 12-17 pills a day. Not even liking the way they make me feel anymore, I began to taper off and come up with a detox plan. I got down to 5 50mg pills a day, but couldn't make myself decrease less. I was already feeling symptoms of withdrawal, so I decided to go cold turkey. I took my last dose of 3 50mg pills on Tuesday at 3:00 which was 48 hours ago.

On Wednesday morning, I woke up and immediately took the following:

L-Glutamine 1,500 mg
L-Glutathione 300 mg
Valerian Root 1350 mg
Gabapentin 800 mg
Clonodine .05
Immodium
Magnesium
2 multivitamins
B6

I didn't feel great, but I didn't feel terrible. Just lethargic, some restless legs and really cold. I couldn't get warm. And I had to take A LOT of Immodium. The rest of the day went like this:

Wed 3:30 PM
Zanaflex 4 mg
Valerian Root 1350 mg
Nerountin 800 mg
Clonodine .05 mg

Wed 7:15 pm
L-Glutamine 1,500 mg
Valerian Root 1350 mg
Immodium
Magnesium
B6
5-HTP
Kolonopin .5 mg (anxiety kicking in)

Wed 10:30 pm
Gabapentin 600mg
Zanaflex .5 mg
Clonodine .075

I slept straight through the night. (Impossible, right? That has always been one of my worst detox symptoms and I have insomnia anyway. I swear it is the Gabapentin/Clonodine mixture.)

When I got up today I felt pretty normal, but still repeated what I had taken yesterday morning. Around 11:00, I really started to feel the anxiety to I took a Klonopin. Then I had a root canal appointment at 2:00 (DUMB, RIGHT?). I took another Gabapentin, 1350 Valerian Root and a .5 xanax. I'm home from the root canal and honestly I felt completely normal. No detox symptoms at all...except I've having to take a whole lot of Immodium.

Here's my question. The numbness is wearing off and my tooth is hurting. I took a bunch of Ibprofen and that isn't helping. I have some vicodin. Will this mess up my detox by taking a vicodin? I've read some people say you can use opiates to relieve tramadol withdrawal symptoms. I'm not worried about getting hooked on the vicodin. I just don't want it to stall/restart the detox am I going through.

Also, has anyone else had such great results with Gabapentin and Clonidine? I'm going to start taking some Sam-e and L-Tyrosine soon to work on the mood problems I will probably have. I'm a little weary of the L-Tyrosine as I already have hypothyroidism and don't want to take something that will mess with my levels.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[pasha]

Taking the hydrocodone (Vicodin) will definitely set you back. It may even make your withdrawals slightly worst as it's a much more potent opioid than tramadol. Taking tizanadine (Zanaflex) and clonidine is something you should watch out for. They're both cousin drugs and structurally similar, it could either create hypotension to dangerous levels, or competition at the same site (a2). If you do intend to take them I hope it's under a physicians instructions.

I would stick with the tizanadine as it has proven efficacy as an analgesic and muscle relaxant, and combine it with the gabapentin which is also a pretty decent withdrawal aid and an analgesic. I've had great success using tizanadine, pregabalin, and clonazepam for tramadol withdrawals. Don't stick with these drugs for too long though especially that you'll be tempted to, since tramadol PAWS are a nasty bitch that linger for a while since your essentially withdrawing from both an opioid and a SSRA/NRI. Gabapentin can have some dependence of its own, while tizanadine/clonidine can cause massive rebound hypertension upon cessation, so make sure these drugs are tapered before you stop them. The same can obviously be said about the clonazepam.

 

[grapeape77]

Well, I ended up taking 10mg of hydrocodone before I saw this. My tooth feels fine this morning, though, so I don't need it anymore.

Thanks for the info on the tizanadine/clonidine interaction. I'm only planning on taking all of these until acute withdrawal is over...I figure I'll stop around day 4 or 5 and see how I feel. I'm on day 3 now, and I'm actually back at work and feel ok so far. I'm blown away about how easy this detox has been (thanks to the other meds). I've heard horror stories about tramadol detox, and I've been through opiate detox countless times. I do know the PAWS are going to be bad. I'm incorporating SAM-e in starting today along with 5HTP in hopes to help my brain chemicals level out.

Thanks again!

 

[grapeape77]

I am scared of how I'm going to feel when I do stop taking the gabapentin in a few days. I'm really worried about not sleeping at night because I have always had insomnia, even while taking the tramadol. Lack of sleep amplifies every other terrible symptom you are having. I just want to know what it is like to feel normal and sober again.

 

[pasha]

The gabapentin chiefly, mixed with the clonazepam is what's really keeping your withdrawals at bay. Pregabalin/gabapentin are the gold standard for withdrawals. When you stop it in a few days, the acute withdrawal will be over, but the PAWS will be unmasked which is something the gabapentin is very effective at treating. It's good that your back at work, because one of the biggest causes of relapses amongst addicts is the inability to occupy ourselves after using.

 

[Need4speed]

tramadol is a BITCH to get off, i love it to death but man its terrible

eye spasms, muscle spasms all over the body, depression, NO ENERGY and you cant get out of bed

be careful wit that stuff!

 

[Treefa]

i actually found that the hydrocodone withdrawal(espicailly in moderately low doses) is more bearable than just tramadol withdrawal.

i look at it like tramadol affects opioid receptors AND serotonin and norephinephrine. Hydro only affects opioid receptors.

Therefore using the vicodin will eliminate the opioid withdrawl from tramadol and at the same time make the SNRI wd much much more bearable.

just dont make a habit out of the vicodin.

 

[pasha]

^ I see what you're saying, and I applied that logic myself and attempted this before. The problem is the NRI/SRA can take months to resolve, such as in the case of SSRI discontinuation syndrome, so taking hydrocodone, for an anonymous period of time can leave you with withdrawals from an opioid which is stronger, only to discover that the SRA/NRI withdrawals haven't disappeared, since opioids are so clever at masking them.

If pulled off successfully, you still have the issue of determining which withdrawal is worst, which IMO is tramadol, even still, there is no guarantee that can apply to everyone.

There's also the issue of a relapse, if you start taking hydrocodone to get off the tramadol, and you suddenly discover you want to get back on the tramadol, the tramadol will no longer be effective as an opioid, analgesic, etc, forcing you to move on to a stronger opioid.

All in all I found it very counter-productive to get on another opioid to get off tramadol. The best way to mitigate the SSRI/NRI symptoms of tramadol is taper to the 25/10 milligram doses, where the SRA/NRI is still active, and the opioid is barely active, and go from there.

 

[Treefa]

I had a script of 60 trams about a month ago. Of course they were gone in like a week, maybe less. A few days after i ran out i got some hydros( 20 measley 5mgs) the week after, and called for a refill the week after that for the same amount and made it last about 4 days and stuck out another 3 days so doc won't be suspicious.
So after the 8 days, 4 of which spent in pain, i went into the doc because i have a URI, got some anitbiotics and asked him for a refill on my vicodin(he gave it to me but mentioned the ADDICTION word, so i'm going to try my darndest to lay off the dros for a while), which are all gone now.
I ran out like 2 days ago, got a perk of a friend yesterday, and now im back at square 1.

I get a refill on my trams this week(hopefully early, i got work to do and it will suck if i have to wait till hump day), and i'm going to try my best to take 4 or less a day, and REALLY TRY TO SKIP DAYS!!

This will be tough, but i'd rather have the relief when i really need it instead of popping 12 at a time to get high lol. So good luck to us both.

 

[grapeape77]

Well, it's been six days, and I took some vicodin two of the days. I feel like the withdrawal symptoms are getting worse. I tried not taking gabapentin yesterday, but the leg aches were too much, so I took some and some tizanadine. Right now I'm lying in bed with crazy leg aches and I can't get the diarrhea under control. I'm in a conference all week at work, and yesterday was just miserable. The acute period has to end soon, right?

 

[pasha]

I had an hunch the hydrocodone would be counter-productive. You didn't mention the duration of your abstinence.

If you're in a mire, I would suggest one large dose (40 milligrams) of loperamide, which will definitely hold you for at least 3 days. I've practiced this before and it works to a limited extent, the only problem is it will delay the withdrawal symptoms, but they will come on much milder.

The problem with tramadol withdrawal is once the acute stage ends, you're still stuck in SRA/NRI withdrawal, which regulate mood and depression, couple that with the depression from opioid paws, and you're looking at protracted withdrawal symptoms mainly constituting of heavy depression for at least 2-3 weeks. The gabapentin however, and the tizanadine, are extremely clever at dealing with post-acute-withdrawal-symptoms. So if you plan this right, taking the loperamide to hold you for a few days, then moving on to the gabapentin to deal with the paws, you'll be looking at a much more pleasant outcome.

I've been on and off tramadol for almost a decade, so I know exactly what you're going through. What irks me the most is the formication.

 

[pasha]

I had a hunch the hydrocodone would be counter-productive. You didn't mention the duration of your abstinence.

If you're in a mire, I would suggest one large dose (40 milligrams) of loperamide, which will definitely hold you for at least 3 days. I've practiced this before and it works to a limited extent, the only problem is it will delay the withdrawal symptoms, but they will come on much milder.

The problem with tramadol withdrawal is once the acute stage ends, you're still stuck in SRA/NRI withdrawal, which regulate mood and depression, couple that with the depression from opioid paws, and you're looking at protracted withdrawal symptoms mainly constituting of heavy depression for at least 2-3 weeks. The gabapentin however, and the tizanadine, are extremely clever at dealing with post-acute-withdrawal-symptoms. So if you plan this right, taking the loperamide to hold you for a few days, then moving on to the gabapentin to deal with the paws, you'll be looking at a much more pleasant outcome.

I've been on and off tramadol for almost a decade, so I know exactly what you're going through. What irks me the most is the formication.

 

[grapeape77]

Ah, the formication is awful. The leg/foot constant ache is my biggest problem.

Do you have any suggestions on how long I can take the gabapentin? Will I need to taper off of it? This is the first time I've used it for withdrawal.

 

[pasha]

2-4 weeks would probably suffice. By then the awful serotonin releasing agent and nor-epinephrine dysfunction will regulate again, causing the depression to lift.

-----------------------------

The gabapentin as perhaps mentioned before is excellent at mitigating symptoms of paws which will be in full function for about a month. Once you take the gabapentin for the time period mentioned, a rapid taper will suffice in your situation since you haven't been on the drug for a considerable period. Executing a long taper could end up biting you in the ass, due to inducing unnecessary dependence. If you're taking 900 milligrams a day, reduce your dosage in 100 milligram increments everyday for 9 days. This is assuming that you're taking the 300 milligram dosages. If you want a shorter or longer taper, just divide the current dosage by the number of days, and that will be the increment you reduce by everyday.

Example:

900 milligrams / 9 days = 100 milligrams increments

1200 milligrams / 10 days = 120 milligram increments

Always try to get an even number to make it easier to gauge your dosages.

-----------------------------

The formication usually disappears on the fifth or sixth day. It's discomforting, but I find that hydroxyzine with gabapentin amazing at suppressing it, in addition to getting a fair amount of sleep.

 

[bunge]

For another option along with chromophobias good advice, mirtazapine will help with tramadol withdrawal. Ive come off tramadol before using codeine and mirtazapine. I got down to 100mgs daily of tramadol, then switched to codeine 120-180mg daily and mirtazapine 15mg. The codeine will cover the opiate part of the WD while the mirtazapine covers the SNRI part of the WD. All I suffered was some anxiety but nothing crippling. The mirtazapine can work wonders for the loose bowels and insomnia aswell. Just dont start the mirtazapine before finishing the tramadol as that can be rather unpleasant for some people. It may not help you but if your really struggling then it could be a life-saver. Good luck with your detox btw.

 

[Treefa]

Chlorpheniermine is a weak SNRI.

Find some tussionex?

 

[grapeape77]

Thanks for all the advice. It's been years since I've had to detox off of anything, and hope this is the last time. I'm gonna stuck with the loperamide for a few days and then use the gabapentin for the PAWS.

I also tapered really fast from 12-17 pills a day to 5 and then quit cold turkey. I think it's making the detox even worse.

 

[grapeape77]

Still feeling pretty terrible as in leg aches, creepy crawlies and unable to get warm. I left my gabapentin at home today on accident and started to really go downhill by the end of the day. I still have about 100 tramadol pills in my medicine cabinet, but for some reason it is the vicodin that's calling my name. I know it's not worth it, but it is so hard to resist.

 

[grapeape77]

And to top it all off, I'm scheduled for two more root canals tomorrow morning, which I have to go to work directly after. I guess it never really feels like a good time to quit. I'm sure it will just make me stronger haha.