Opioids Tramadol vs ODSMT tolerance question

[Cult315]

Before I get a slew of comments about how shit Tramadol is, I’m one of the rare cases where the drug works very well and I thoroughly enjoy it. While I enjoy ODSMT as well I find it lacks in some of the aspects that made Tramadol so appealing/addictive to me.

For nearly the past year, I’ve been using mostly ODSMT as my opioid DOC after kicking subs. I was sitting around 100mg/day for a long time, but recently pushed it up to 120-140mg/day. I also recently acquired a fairly large amount of Citra(Mexican I think) Tram 100mgs. I also use 10mg, sometimes 20 but rarely, Valium daily. I’m always cautious in my use, but I’ve taken a Valium and 2 tramadol at once as my initial dose and it doesn’t seem to produce much of an effect other than making me fall asleep if I’m relaxing in bed. I’m certain the tram dose is too light compared to my usual ODSMT dose, but I’ve been afraid to push the bar given the serotonin activity and the fact I’m a daily user of m-amp and often other substances. While I’m not really too concerned about serotonin syndrome(in the past I was addicted to and taking upwards of 2 grams, no that’s not a typo, of tramadol a day) I know it’s a possibility and I’m not a young, crazy bastard anymore and actually care about staying alive and healthy(ish).

I guess basically what I’m trying to ask is, if 120mg or so ODSMT would cause euphoria consistently what dose of Tramadol should I start with to produce the same/similar effect? I was thinking tomorrow I’d just start with 10mg Valium and 300mg tram, but if anybody has any firsthand experience of dosage conversion/equality of these two I’d love to hear your input. I know Tramadol is metabolized into ODSMT which is responsible for at least a percentage(maybe all?) opioid effects, but something about the SNRI properties of tram have seemed to always benefit me as well. I just love the drug and I know I’m the odd man out on that perspective, but we’re all built different and while something may not work for one person it can be the golden goose for another. So please keep opinions of how shitty tramadol is(for you) to yourself and only post if you have input related to the question. Thanks in advance BLers

 

[4DQSAR]

I think I posted a link somewhere in which tramadol and O-DMT were compared on the basis of analgesic activity. If I recall correctly, 20mg of O-DMT was as effective as 50mg of tramadol.

But beware. Tramadol is a mixture of two stereoisomers (one being the mirror image of the other) and while we know a little about O-DMT, we don't know much. What we know of tramadol appears to suggest that the stereoisomer that isn't an opioid is in fact the more toxic. I simply have no idea what the O-DM of that sterioismer might be.

 

[evo4ever]

Tramadol it's self is a Serotonin & Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor (SNRI) and it's metabolite (ODSMT) is the Opioid, I hope that clears it up a bit for you.

 

[Cult315]

I think I posted a link somewhere in which tramadol and O-DMT were compared on the basis of analgesic activity. If I recall correctly, 20mg of O-DMT was as effective as 50mg of tramadol.

But beware. Tramadol is a mixture of two stereoisomers (one being the mirror image of the other) and while we know a little about O-DMT, we don't know much. What we know of tramadol appears to suggest that the stereoisomer that isn't an opioid is in fact the more toxic. I simply have no idea what the O-DM of that sterioismer might be.

I’ll check your post history(if it’s available to check anyway) after writing this and look for the link you mentioned. But if the comparative dosages you suggested(20mg O = 50mg T, aka T requires 2.5x the dosage) are in fact correct it lines up perfectly with what I’m planning for my initial dose tomorrow. I’m a bit tired and that math seemed off to me for a minute but it was right, 120x2.5 is 300.

I thought I remembered seeing somewhere on here, or possibly Reddit, a long time ago that suggested ODSMT was 4x the potency of Tramadol, and iirc it specifically said 100mg O = 400mg T. While I’m pretty damn positive a starting dose of 400mg wouldn’t harm me, if it is actually 2.5x weaker than O and not 4x then taking 100mg more than the equivalent O dose I’m accustomed to would not only make me a bit higher than I intend to be but also accelerate my tolerance that I already know is going to rise pretty fast, based off what I know from my history with tramadol abuse anyway.

Also maybe I’m misunderstanding the point of your warning, but I’m talking about switching from using ODSMT to using Tramadol instead - maybe my tiredness is effecting my ability to understand but the way your bottom paragraph is worded makes it seem to me like you’re warning that the toxicity profile of ODSMTs stereoisomers is unknown. Or do you just mean the stereoisomer of Tramadol that isn’t the opioid has its own ODSMT and that effect profile/toxicity is unknown? I don’t know really anything about chemistry(but attempting to learn at least basic terminology lol). But regardless, I survived 5+ years of combining regular Tramadol+stims, typically adderall, where at the end I was taking roughly 2000mg/day and came out perfectly fine. I will say the withdrawal was probably the worst I’ve ever been through, which I don’t know for sure but always assumed the SNRI activity had a large role in the severity of it.

Tramadol it's self is a Serotonin & Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor (SNRI) and it's metabolite (ODSMT) is the Opioid, I hope that clears it up a bit for you.

Not trying to be a dick so I apologize if it comes off that way, but in the OP I mentioned Tramadols SNRI properties and that it metabolizes into ODSMT - which at the very least is partially responsible for the opioid activity, but thats about the extent of my knowledge to anything past that so it could very well be the sole contributor to opioid activity.

 

[evo4ever]

I’ll check your post history(if it’s available to check anyway) after writing this and look for the link you mentioned. But if the comparative dosages you suggested(20mg O = 50mg T, aka T requires 2.5x the dosage) are in fact correct it lines up perfectly with what I’m planning for my initial dose tomorrow. I’m a bit tired and that math seemed off to me for a minute but it was right, 120x2.5 is 300.

I thought I remembered seeing somewhere on here, or possibly Reddit, a long time ago that suggested ODSMT was 4x the potency of Tramadol, and iirc it specifically said 100mg O = 400mg T. While I’m pretty damn positive a starting dose of 400mg wouldn’t harm me, if it is actually 2.5x weaker than O and not 4x then taking 100mg more than the equivalent O dose I’m accustomed to would not only make me a bit higher than I intend to be but also accelerate my tolerance that I already know is going to rise pretty fast, based off what I know from my history with tramadol abuse anyway.

Also maybe I’m misunderstanding the point of your warning, but I’m talking about switching from using ODSMT to using Tramadol instead - maybe my tiredness is effecting my ability to understand but the way your bottom paragraph is worded makes it seem to me like you’re warning that the toxicity profile of ODSMTs stereoisomers is unknown. Or do you just mean the stereoisomer of Tramadol that isn’t the opioid has its own ODSMT and that effect profile/toxicity is unknown? I don’t know really anything about chemistry(but attempting to learn at least basic terminology lol). But regardless, I survived 5+ years of combining regular Tramadol+stims, typically adderall, where at the end I was taking roughly 2000mg/day and came out perfectly fine. I will say the withdrawal was probably the worst I’ve ever been through, which I don’t know for sure but always assumed the SNRI activity had a large role in the severity of it.


Not trying to be a dick so I apologize if it comes off that way, but in the OP I mentioned Tramadols SNRI properties and that it metabolizes into ODSMT - which at the very least is partially responsible for the opioid activity, but thats about the extent of my knowledge to anything past that so it could very well be the sole contributor to opioid activity.

Which ever way you look at Tramadol it's a very weak opioid to a point where it's almost unnoticeable to someone who is opioid tolerant.

 

[Cult315]

Which ever way you look at Tramadol it's a very weak opioid to a point where it's almost unnoticeable to someone who is opioid tolerant.

May I present the first paragraph in my original post -
“Before I get a slew of comments about how shit Tramadol is, I’m one of the rare cases where the drug works very well and I thoroughly enjoy it. While I enjoy ODSMT as well I find it lacks in some of the aspects that made Tramadol so appealing/addictive to me. ”

I’m quite opiate tolerant. I’ve been on basically every well-known kind(with the exception of Fent and Zenes, other than a few accidental Fent uses that caused near-lethal ODs in the H I was using) and dependent on them for over 20 years. Even with a large tolerance to hydro/oxy I used to take tramadol over those two if it was an option. I don’t know why it affects me in the way it does, I’m guessing I’m a fast metabolizer with whatever the enzyme is that’s responsible for metabolizing Tramadol. Or whatever. Regardless of however the hell it works, as I stated it just works great for me and I’m not here to argue about the subjective effects of the drug, I’m just looking for first hand experience on a dose conversion ratio between pure ODSMT and Tramadol.

 

[evo4ever]

May I present the first paragraph in my original post -
“Before I get a slew of comments about how shit Tramadol is, I’m one of the rare cases where the drug works very well and I thoroughly enjoy it. While I enjoy ODSMT as well I find it lacks in some of the aspects that made Tramadol so appealing/addictive to me. ”

I’m quite opiate tolerant. I’ve been on basically every well-known kind(with the exception of Fent and Zenes, other than a few accidental Fent uses that caused near-lethal ODs in the H I was using) and dependent on them for over 20 years. Even with a large tolerance to hydro/oxy I used to take tramadol over those two if it was an option. I don’t know why it affects me in the way it does, I’m guessing I’m a fast metabolizer with whatever the enzyme is that’s responsible for metabolizing Tramadol. Or whatever. Regardless of however the hell it works, as I stated it just works great for me and I’m not here to argue about the subjective effects of the drug, I’m just looking for first hand experience on a dose conversion ratio between pure ODSMT and Tramadol.

Count yourself lucky because most people don't get on with Tramadol (me included). Yes you must be a rapid metabolizer. You probably don't need to do this but have you considered using a CYP Inducer?

 

[Cult315]

Count yourself lucky because most people don't get on with Tramadol (me included). Yes you must be a rapid metabolizer. You probably don't need to do this but have you considered using a CYP Inducer?

Would that cause it to be more effective/metabolize better? I don’t really have the time(and a little lazy) to search it up myself right now but I’ll try later on - in reality I’ll probably forget within 2 minutes of posting this so I’ll ask do you mean something like grapefruit juice and other things that are typically said not to mix with certain opiate/oids? Or would that be an inhibitor, or are they the same thing?

Probably about 17-18 years ago when I first started heavily abusing Tramadol I think I read something about not drinking (white?) grapefruit juice with it and want to say I searched about it on this forum(but .ru or whatever the link was ~17 years ago) and found some sort of information on it. I only tried it once as I’ve never really liked grapefruit juice and didn’t want to go out of my way to get some just to potentially add effect to a drug that already got me super high. It also didn’t cause any noticeable change that I can recall, but I don’t think I drank very much and it was also nearly 2 decades ago. Memory of that time isn’t very good lol. I used to instead, for many years, use either Benadryl or DXM(or a combo of both) taken about 30-40 minutes before dosing to potentiate any opiate I’d take. Also benzos, mostly Xanax but in my younger years they were extremely problematic substances for me and played a large role in quite a few near-ODs on top of other typical benzo abuse horror stories so I stopped using them. Now that I’m older and a bit smarter and can control my use better I typically take low dose Valium 1x a day, or if I can manage to find some .5-1mg Xanax 1-2x a day. Really just depends on the day lol. Not only as it helps keep my opiate doses a little lower but I’ve also, due to shitty life circumstances for the past 5+ years, developed an actual anxiety disorder and even before beginning to use them daily required them fairly often to be able to function at a ‘normal’ level. I was prescribed Valium legitimately but recently lost my insurance and am still shopping around to find an RX that isn’t insane without it.

Anyway, that was a really long way to say while I’ll happily read/consider any advise you can give, adding something that would effectively make the drug stronger may not be my best idea given the combo I currently take. But I’m tolerant to both and do keep my benzo dose at the minimum effective dosage 98% of the time, so maybe what you’re talking about could be beneficial. I’m all ears(or eyes I guess)

 

[evo4ever]

Would that cause it to be more effective/metabolize better? I don’t really have the time(and a little lazy) to search it up myself right now but I’ll try later on - in reality I’ll probably forget within 2 minutes of posting this so I’ll ask do you mean something like grapefruit juice and other things that are typically said not to mix with certain opiate/oids? Or would that be an inhibitor, or are they the same thing?

Probably about 17-18 years ago when I first started heavily abusing Tramadol I think I read something about not drinking (white?) grapefruit juice with it and want to say I searched about it on this forum(but .ru or whatever the link was ~17 years ago) and found some sort of information on it. I only tried it once as I’ve never really liked grapefruit juice and didn’t want to go out of my way to get some just to potentially add effect to a drug that already got me super high. It also didn’t cause any noticeable change that I can recall, but I don’t think I drank very much and it was also nearly 2 decades ago. Memory of that time isn’t very good lol. I used to instead, for many years, use either Benadryl or DXM(or a combo of both) taken about 30-40 minutes before dosing to potentiate any opiate I’d take. Also benzos, mostly Xanax but in my younger years they were extremely problematic substances for me and played a large role in quite a few near-ODs on top of other typical benzo abuse horror stories so I stopped using them. Now that I’m older and a bit smarter and can control my use better I typically take low dose Valium 1x a day, or if I can manage to find some .5-1mg Xanax 1-2x a day. Really just depends on the day lol. Not only as it helps keep my opiate doses a little lower but I’ve also, due to shitty life circumstances for the past 5+ years, developed an actual anxiety disorder and even before beginning to use them daily required them fairly often to be able to function at a ‘normal’ level. I was prescribed Valium legitimately but recently lost my insurance and am still shopping around to find an RX that isn’t insane without it.

Anyway, that was a really long way to say while I’ll happily read/consider any advise you can give, adding something that would effectively make the drug stronger may not be my best idea given the combo I currently take. But I’m tolerant to both and do keep my benzo dose at the minimum effective dosage 98% of the time, so maybe what you’re talking about could be beneficial. I’m all ears(or eyes I guess)

No Grapefruit Juice is a CPY Inhibitor which will reduce the amount of Tramadol that gets converted into ODSMT, to make Tramadol more "opioid-like" you need to convert as much Tramadol into ODSMT as you can which means you need a CYP Inducer. I'll list some drugs that will induce your CYP enzymes below:

Rifampin
phenobarbital
carbamazepine
omeprazole
St. John's Wort
Smoking Tobacco

Good luck!

 

[4DQSAR]

I’ll check your post history(if it’s available to check anyway) after writing this and look for the link you mentioned. But if the comparative dosages you suggested(20mg O = 50mg T, aka T requires 2.5x the dosage) are in fact correct it lines up perfectly with what I’m planning for my initial dose tomorrow. I’m a bit tired and that math seemed off to me for a minute but it was right, 120x2.5 is 300.

Don't forget, the study only compared the oral analgesic activity and only at doses comparable to how tramadol is prescibed/used.

I have no idea what happens at higher doses.

I just know that in the UK doctors were initially advised to consider tramadol as an alternative to codeine with 50mg of tramadol listed as being as active as 30mg of codeine. So users estimated that a strip of 50mg tramadol capsules would feel roughly like strip of codeine tablets. So we had an unexpected number of deaths because tramadol is more toxic in overdose situations.

That's why I explained the stereochemistry. The enantiomer of tramadol that ISN'T an opioid monkeys around with monoamine levels and I've been told that in overdose, tramadol can present in a way totally unlike 'classic' opioids. Seizures and so on.

 

[Bleaney]

I guess basically what I’m trying to ask is, if 120mg or so ODSMT would cause euphoria consistently what dose of Tramadol should I start with to produce the same/similar effect?

I read somewhere that ODSMT is 40 more times more potent as an opioid than Tramadol. So to my thinking, (which may be flawed,) with all the other dodgy shit that tramadol does and potentially causes, you'd need to be taking doses in the extremely unsafe, or potentially lethal, dose range to get anywhere equalling ODSMT.

You'd also need to be an excellent and efficient metaboliser of tramadol, in order to produce ODSMT in your body, and not everyone is.

I used to love ODSMT, but unfortunately it was only easily available as a legal RC in very limited batches for very short periods of time. Probably for the best in the long run, as even with such limited supplies I soon managed to acquire a bit of an ODSMT habit.

Bit of a strange substance in that each of the 3 batches I tried did not have the same effects. The first batch I tried was massively euphoric and stimulating, the 2nd and 3rd, not so much. Not by a long way.

I think there may have been one or 2 more batches that 'came to the market' before I was aware of what it was and where I could get it. So I have no idea if those early batches were any better or worse as I missed out by not cottoning on early enough.

As a matter of interest, how are the current batches in terms of euphoria and stimulation?

 

[Them Witches]

The MME value of Tramadol was changed recently. It doubled in fact. I disagree mostly. Now They basically base MME values by two factors. The effects initially and how long it addresses physical dependency.

The Opioid naive do not have to worry about the physical dependency aspect. So it makes some sense why they doubled the MME value. Tramadol gets them off pretty good.

A few years ago the MME of Tramadol 50mg = Morphine 5mg. Now they say it equals to Morphine 10mg.

An example of how toxic Tramadol is in the scope of of pain management, someone with a 450 MME value would need Tramadol 4,500mg according to a few years ago. They say 400mg is the max daily dosage. ** 450 MME is equal to Roxi 210mg & Methadone 40mg OR 60qty Perc 5mg**

Here is a good link :

Tramadol poisoning and its management and complications: a scoping review - PMC

Tramadol (TR) is an opioid agonist (μ-opioid receptors) that also affects the noradrenergic and serotonergic systems. TR is a synthetic analgesic substance with opioid agonist properties that has been approved for pain management by affecting the ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[4DQSAR]

Oh - I totally failed to address the fact @Bleaney pointed out. Just as codeine is a prodrug with a fraction being O-demethylated to morphine, so tramadol (or more specifically the opioid enantiomer) is likewise a prodrug. The other enantiomer? I don't know.

I know researchers at Grünenthal did obtain a patent on various homologues and even a scaled route to resolve the stereoisomers. Now why none of that work ended up in new products is an open question.

 

[Bleaney]

Yeah, plus having only small a fraction of a tramadol dose metabolising to ODSMT, tramadol doesnt only do that, there's a huge list of other stuff it does on top of that, and some of is dangerous especially if taking large doses.

Further information on safe use of tramadol, and what it does, should be available on the wikipedia entry.

I don't have the energy right now to read the article, and post a summary, but I've already gathered that it's a complicated and multi-faceted drug. One which also has loads of bad interactions, some very serious, with loads of other substances.

I think it must be the worst substance I've ever seen, in terms of the number of interactions to avoid.

 

[evo4ever]

I just can't stand the drug tbh. It hits too many different receptors which makes it feel "dirty".

 

[Cult315]

I read somewhere that ODSMT is 40 more times more potent as an opioid than Tramadol. So to my thinking, (which may be flawed,) with all the other dodgy shit that tramadol does and potentially causes, you'd need to be taking doses in the extremely unsafe, or potentially lethal, dose range to get anywhere equalling ODSMT.

You'd also need to be an excellent and efficient metaboliser of tramadol, in order to produce ODSMT in your body, and not everyone is.

I used to love ODSMT, but unfortunately it was only easily available as a legal RC in very limited batches for very short periods of time. Probably for the best in the long run, as even with such limited supplies I soon managed to acquire a bit of an ODSMT habit.

Bit of a strange substance in that each of the 3 batches I tried did not have the same effects. The first batch I tried was massively euphoric and stimulating, the 2nd and 3rd, not so much. Not by a long way.

I think there may have been one or 2 more batches that 'came to the market' before I was aware of what it was and where I could get it. So I have no idea if those early batches were any better or worse as I missed out by not cottoning on early enough.

As a matter of interest, how are the current batches in terms of euphoria and stimulation?

I believe I am in fact ‘an excellent and efficient’ metabolizer of Tramadol as I have always loved it and (while I wouldn’t actually do this, at least not today) everybody I know who are also opioid dependent wouldn’t take them if they were given them for free. Back when they were freely and easily prescribed I’d basically have people throwing them at me. Probably akin to a homeless man’s wet dream of the equivalent happening with people’s loose change. If I wasn’t an idiotic, out of control addict with zero self control I likely would have had a lifetime supply of Tramadol, given my rapid metabolism and enjoyment of it. If I could’ve kept doses to 3-400mg/day at max a few days a week I’d still have some of the originals I’d had over a decade ago today.

I can’t say this with any certainty as I honestly don’t know anything about the matter other than how it effects my own body, but I doubt ODSMT is 40x Tramadol in any regard except maybe in those that lack the enzyme to metabolize the parent drug into ODSMT. So far I’ve found the answer to my own question and while this is likely not a safe dose for many people to take I’ve found 4-500mg in one dose to cause, for me, roughly the same effect as 120-150mg ODSMT. But unlike ODSMT itself I have to redose Tramadol throughout the day to keep it going, where one single dose of O would usually be enough for the entire day - sometimes with a small booster dose late at night if I knew I’d be staying up late. I’ll stress again that back at my worst I was taking around 2000mg/day of Tramadol and (luckily? fortunately?) I walked away from it with zero negative health impacts other than a moderately lengthy, severe withdrawal period. I’d call it the worst withdrawals I’ve ever had as I believe the SNRI activity of it caused their own withdrawals so even when I caved and relapsed on other opiates to ease the hell I was going through, I’d just get high and still feel like absolute garbage because they didn’t relieve any of the other withdrawal symptoms that were caused by whatever % of tramadol that isn’t converted into ODSMT. I think people withdrawing from Kratom/its extracts and whatever forms there are of it(maybe 7-oh as well?) face a similar issue even when trying to detox from it using buprenorphine or other opiate because there’s so many other active metabolites that don’t effect opioid receptors yet still cause their own withdrawals.

I got on the RC train late(which honestly is probably a good thing for me because I missed all the ‘good’ pyrros and shit like U-47700 and ap-237) so I have no reference to compare earlier ODSMT to but the two people that have it still affordable and consistently that I know of both have the same quality stuff which, as a shared opinion among many, is great quality and euphoric. I don’t personally find it stimulating but it’s often referred to as so, but I’m also not a ‘usual’ statistic either as I’ve been dependent on both opioids and stimulants for a long time(22 years and ~16 years respectively). But strangely enough I do find Tramadol itself stimulating - not as much as I did in the past, and also don’t find oxy to be stimulating at all any more either. There’s been times where I’ve been without meth and/or coke and would just take my normal dose of O and unless I physically forced myself to get up and do something I’d constantly just fall asleep. With Tramadol, even ‘withdrawing’ from meth I can easily get up out of bed and still be somewhat productive

Again, I don’t really know shit about shit so anything I say is speculation or guesses based off what little I do know, or at least what I think I understand anyway, but as ODSMT is an NRI and Tramadol an SNRI shouldn’t they technically be just as stimulating from the -NRI factor? My guess was that Tramadols serotonin activity helps me feel more ‘normal’ when I don’t have a stimulant(namely meth) due to similar receptor activity where ODSMT doesn’t effect serotonin so even while I’m on it but not meth the lack of serotonin leaves me much more prone to just sleeping the day away.

 

[Bleaney]

O-desmethyltramadol (O-DSMT), is an opioid analgesic and the main active metabolite of tramadol.

It's a pure opiod. With none of the weird and dodgy properties of tramadol.

ODT is comparable to good street heroin. No one is ever going to say that about 500mg of Tramadol. Anyone would probably have a seizure or serotonin syndrome before their dose of tramadol could get anywhere near equalling the opioid properties of odt.

 

[4DQSAR]

@Bleaney - but what about the other enatiomer? I don't know if the body metabolizes them both equally and as I said, I don't know if the O-demethylation of that stereoisomer results in. a metabolite that has similar properties to its parent.

I'm just guessing but if someone is just buying tramadol in bulk then performing the O-demethylation, it will demethylate them both equally.

 

[Bleaney]

Tramadol is dangerous in high doses. Unfortunately I don't have any training in chemistry, only a knowledge of the substances and their effects via first hand accounts, and personal experience.

 

[Kaos_8180]

Before I get a slew of comments about how shit Tramadol is, I’m one of the rare cases where the drug works very well and I thoroughly enjoy it. While I enjoy ODSMT as well I find it lacks in some of the aspects that made Tramadol so appealing/addictive to me.

For nearly the past year, I’ve been using mostly ODSMT as my opioid DOC after kicking subs. I was sitting around 100mg/day for a long time, but recently pushed it up to 120-140mg/day. I also recently acquired a fairly large amount of Citra(Mexican I think) Tram 100mgs. I also use 10mg, sometimes 20 but rarely, Valium daily. I’m always cautious in my use, but I’ve taken a Valium and 2 tramadol at once as my initial dose and it doesn’t seem to produce much of an effect other than making me fall asleep if I’m relaxing in bed. I’m certain the tram dose is too light compared to my usual ODSMT dose, but I’ve been afraid to push the bar given the serotonin activity and the fact I’m a daily user of m-amp and often other substances. While I’m not really too concerned about serotonin syndrome(in the past I was addicted to and taking upwards of 2 grams, no that’s not a typo, of tramadol a day) I know it’s a possibility and I’m not a young, crazy bastard anymore and actually care about staying alive and healthy(ish).

I guess basically what I’m trying to ask is, if 120mg or so ODSMT would cause euphoria consistently what dose of Tramadol should I start with to produce the same/similar effect? I was thinking tomorrow I’d just start with 10mg Valium and 300mg tram, but if anybody has any firsthand experience of dosage conversion/equality of these two I’d love to hear your input. I know Tramadol is metabolized into ODSMT which is responsible for at least a percentage(maybe all?) opioid effects, but something about the SNRI properties of tram have seemed to always benefit me as well. I just love the drug and I know I’m the odd man out on that perspective, but we’re all built different and while something may not work for one person it can be the golden goose for another. So please keep opinions of how shitty tramadol is(for you) to yourself and only post if you have input related to the question. Thanks in advance BLers

Tramadol has almost killed me once bc I took 10 of the 50mg pills in high-school and I felt like I was tripping dude I straight had a out of body experience I was so high man I could barely function. My legs were jelly literally it was a crazy uncomfortable scary experience. I hate Tramadol

I believe I am in fact ‘an excellent and efficient’ metabolizer of Tramadol as I have always loved it and (while I wouldn’t actually do this, at least not today) everybody I know who are also opioid dependent wouldn’t take them if they were given them for free. Back when they were freely and easily prescribed I’d basically have people throwing them at me. Probably akin to a homeless man’s wet dream of the equivalent happening with people’s loose change. If I wasn’t an idiotic, out of control addict with zero self control I likely would have had a lifetime supply of Tramadol, given my rapid metabolism and enjoyment of it. If I could’ve kept doses to 3-400mg/day at max a few days a week I’d still have some of the originals I’d had over a decade ago today.

I can’t say this with any certainty as I honestly don’t know anything about the matter other than how it effects my own body, but I doubt ODSMT is 40x Tramadol in any regard except maybe in those that lack the enzyme to metabolize the parent drug into ODSMT. So far I’ve found the answer to my own question and while this is likely not a safe dose for many people to take I’ve found 4-500mg in one dose to cause, for me, roughly the same effect as 120-150mg ODSMT. But unlike ODSMT itself I have to redose Tramadol throughout the day to keep it going, where one single dose of O would usually be enough for the entire day - sometimes with a small booster dose late at night if I knew I’d be staying up late. I’ll stress again that back at my worst I was taking around 2000mg/day of Tramadol and (luckily? fortunately?) I walked away from it with zero negative health impacts other than a moderately lengthy, severe withdrawal period. I’d call it the worst withdrawals I’ve ever had as I believe the SNRI activity of it caused their own withdrawals so even when I caved and relapsed on other opiates to ease the hell I was going through, I’d just get high and still feel like absolute garbage because they didn’t relieve any of the other withdrawal symptoms that were caused by whatever % of tramadol that isn’t converted into ODSMT. I think people withdrawing from Kratom/its extracts and whatever forms there are of it(maybe 7-oh as well?) face a similar issue even when trying to detox from it using buprenorphine or other opiate because there’s so many other active metabolites that don’t effect opioid receptors yet still cause their own withdrawals.

I got on the RC train late(which honestly is probably a good thing for me because I missed all the ‘good’ pyrros and shit like U-47700 and ap-237) so I have no reference to compare earlier ODSMT to but the two people that have it still affordable and consistently that I know of both have the same quality stuff which, as a shared opinion among many, is great quality and euphoric. I don’t personally find it stimulating but it’s often referred to as so, but I’m also not a ‘usual’ statistic either as I’ve been dependent on both opioids and stimulants for a long time(22 years and ~16 years respectively). But strangely enough I do find Tramadol itself stimulating - not as much as I did in the past, and also don’t find oxy to be stimulating at all any more either. There’s been times where I’ve been without meth and/or coke and would just take my normal dose of O and unless I physically forced myself to get up and do something I’d constantly just fall asleep. With Tramadol, even ‘withdrawing’ from meth I can easily get up out of bed and still be somewhat productive

Again, I don’t really know shit about shit so anything I say is speculation or guesses based off what little I do know, or at least what I think I understand anyway, but as ODSMT is an NRI and Tramadol an SNRI shouldn’t they technically be just as stimulating from the -NRI factor? My guess was that Tramadols serotonin activity helps me feel more ‘normal’ when I don’t have a stimulant(namely meth) due to similar receptor activity where ODSMT doesn’t effect serotonin so even while I’m on it but not meth the lack of serotonin leaves me much more prone to just sleeping the day away.

I hate Tramadol so much it doesn't feel like an opioid in any kind of way for me. Matter of fact, tram also gives me dysphoria and makes my pupils huge and dilated almost like I did meth or cocaine. It makes me really jittery and I just overall feel like shit and uncomfortable in my own body any time ive taken it in the past. That shit makes me so sick even if I take just one. It 100% feels like a stimulant of sorts to me. And not the good kind or feel good part of stimulants. Like all the bad parts lol. Ill never take it again. Idk how tf people take that shit. Makes me feel so disgusting and dirty idk how else to explain it tbh.