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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids Tramadol PAWS

riora69

riora69

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 22, 2022
Messages
65
Location
Hungary
Hello!

I haven't taken tramadol for a while. I mentioned earlier that for the past 2 years I have been using it continuously with small breaks in larger doses than 1 gram per day.

Today is my 35th day in CT and I haven't gotten this far in the last 2 years, so I don't know what to expect. I think I have PAWS, which is general malaise, depression, lack of motivation and anxiety. Sleep isn't real either.

Will it ever get better? How much time do you think is needed?
 
riora69 said:
Hello!

I haven't taken tramadol for a while. I mentioned earlier that for the past 2 years I have been using it continuously with small breaks in larger doses than 1 gram per day.

Today is my 35th day in CT and I haven't gotten this far in the last 2 years, so I don't know what to expect. I think I have PAWS, which is general malaise, depression, lack of motivation and anxiety. Sleep isn't real either.

Will it ever get better? How much time do you think is needed?
Click to expand...
It will get better and no one can really give you a time frame. You said yourself, you've been using it for 2 years and in huge doses so your body/mind is going to take time to heal.

Congratulations on doing so well, I wish you the best on the rest of your recovery. Make sure you're eating good food and looking after yourself. Doing exercise will really help also, it'll give you a boost whilst you're still coping with the depression. I do know its hard to get out but even a walk in the fresh air will do wonders. Lots of self care and being kind to yourself as well!

You will get there and let us know how you're getting on! :heart3:
 


Thanks for the encouragement!

I am currently at the point where I had several opportunities to access it but I said no. This has never happened before, which is a pleasant surprise. I Try to get through this period, it's hard, but I'll keep going.
 
The UK has a bit of a tramdol crisis. It's killing kids out of all proportion to it's analgesic value. I'm suspicious of it's lack of selectivity. I've witnessed seizures and comas and naloxone doesn't help. I went through 3 'Yellow boxes' with no improvement to the victim. Had to resort to CPR. They lived, but they were a mess. I suspect in that case pregabalin was involved (which is supposed to stop seizures - but who knows).

Very bad things can happen to people who end up using 1g+ a day of the stuff. Even Grünenthal realized the problems back in the 1970s and ODMT wasn't the answer (lower oral bioavailability so people might switch to parenteral ROAs. So they ended up with tapentadol fitting into the analgesic ladder.

I'm glad you are feeling better.
 
Fertile said:
The UK has a bit of a tramdol crisis. It's killing kids out of all proportion to it's analgesic value. I'm suspicious of it's lack of selectivity. I've witnessed seizures and comas and naloxone doesn't help. I went through 3 'Yellow boxes' with no improvement to the victim. Had to resort to CPR. They lived, but they were a mess. I suspect in that case pregabalin was involved (which is supposed to stop seizures - but who knows).

Very bad things can happen to people who end up using 1g+ a day of the stuff. Even Grünenthal realized the problems back in the 1970s and ODMT wasn't the answer (lower oral bioavailability so people might switch to parenteral ROAs. So they ended up with tapentadol fitting into the analgesic ladder.

I'm glad you are feeling better.
Click to expand...
not accessible? or what crisis?
 
Basically codeine was (and now is again) the 'weak opioid' used on the analgesic ladder. Doctors were careful and it wasn't used too much. But tramadol was sold on it being less abusable and so doctors were prepared to prescribe it more readily. But uninformed individuals (principally the young) thought it was weaker than codeine and so would take a strip if it in the hopes of a buzz.

But evidently tramadol is cardiotoxic and lowers the seizure threshold. People would then take other CNS depressants to get a decent buzz and the results were not pretty. I think it was killing about 300 people a year but for the amount prescribed, it was over-represented in cases of accidental/unintentional overdose fatalities. Thus the press termed it a crisis.

The ambulance crew found another 100 tramadol and 100 gabapentin on the person I had to get back. I didn't end up as a witness in the coroners court so I PRESUME they survived.

It's simply not a good medicine.
 
Fertile said:
Basically codeine was (and now is again) the 'weak opioid' used on the analgesic ladder. Doctors were careful and it wasn't used too much. But tramadol was sold on it being less abusable and so doctors were prepared to prescribe it more readily. But uninformed individuals (principally the young) thought it was weaker than codeine and so would take a strip if it in the hopes of a buzz.

But evidently tramadol is cardiotoxic and lowers the seizure threshold. People would then take other CNS depressants to get a decent buzz and the results were not pretty. I think it was killing about 300 people a year but for the amount prescribed, it was over-represented in cases of accidental/unintentional overdose fatalities. Thus the press termed it a crisis.

The ambulance crew found another 100 tramadol and 100 gabapentin on the person I had to get back. I didn't end up as a witness in the coroners court so I PRESUME they survived.

It's simply not a good medicine.
Click to expand...
Yes, the seizure is cruel. Not long ago I had my first grand mal seizure and I was at work on a construction site.

When I collapsed, my skull was fractured and 4 hematomas formed in my brain. After that I had muscle fever and muscle pain for a long time. It was just luck that I didn't fall from the height where I work anyway, or I didn't hit my head in such a way that I died. It's interesting because for years I used more than 1 gram a day, but I didn't have a seizure. until now. that's why I stopped completely at the moment.
 
Last edited:
Sad to hear these stories. Google penalising forums like this are partly to blame.

I found the safety information on this site and drugs-forum before they were penalised. That taught me to take a suitable anti-convulsant like diazepam when going over the recommended dosage.

Gabapentin is not a suitable anti-convulsant and not all benzos are suitable.

Anyway, regarding PAWS, maybe you need an anti-depressant. Whether it be a short term one like 5-HTP or a long term one like amitriptyline. Both have certainly helped me (not taken together). I suspect many other users do it for the way it affects serotonin.
 
I don't know what the best solution would be, I'm currently trying to survive this period. the anxiety has eased somewhat, I'm sure I'll get better slowly.

the last time I was in therapy, my homework was to write down 10 things why PAWS is good. according to my psychiatrist, it has a role and is an important part of recovery.


funny, but I managed to write down 10 things why this is good. lol.
 
IMO dropping tramadol's SNRI gave u these PAWS than opioid itself. I would prefer to get addicted from morphine than tramadol (ofc everything taking I.O.). For me pregabalin is a miracle medicine for that but in short term usage, u can drown in to it badly without self control
 
MsDiz said:
It will get better and no one can really give you a time frame. You said yourself, you've been using it for 2 years and in huge doses so your body/mind is going to take time to heal.

Congratulations on doing so well, I wish you the best on the rest of your recovery. Make sure you're eating good food and looking after yourself. Doing exercise will really help also, it'll give you a boost whilst you're still coping with the depression. I do know its hard to get out but even a walk in the fresh air will do wonders. Lots of self care and being kind to yourself as well!

You will get there and let us know how you're getting on! :heart3:
Click to expand...
Today is day 45! Anxiety is relieved.
 
To help with mild paws you could take D/L-Phenylalanine, as enantiomers are involved in making endogenous opioids such as endorphin, enkephalin, morphine, 6-monoacetyl-morphine (6-MAM, the first metabolite of Heroin.) and codeine.
L-Tyrosine and/or L-Dopa (Which Phenylalanine can be used by the body to create.) also are used to make the endogenous opioids morphine, 6-MAM and codeine.
Not sure if it used to make other endogenous opioids like endorphin and enkephalin but I assume it is.

Panax ginseng (Known as Asian ginseng, Chinese ginseng, Japanese ginseng and also Red ginseng.) contains something that acts as a mild opioid and stimulant antagonist but doesn’t work directly at the mu opioid receptors.
So it may potentially help with PAWS.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Pharmacological and physiological effects of ginseng on actions induced by opioids and psychostimulants] - PubMed

Pharmacological and physiological effects of ginseng on actions induced by opioids and psychostimulants were summarized. Analgesic effects of opioids, such as morphine and U-50,488H, were blocked by ginseng in a non-opioid dependent manner. Furthermore, ginseng inhibited the tolerance to and...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Gaz_hmmmm said:
To help with mild paws you could take D/L-Phenylalanine, as enantiomers are involved in making endogenous opioids such as endorphin, enkephalin, morphine, 6-monoacetyl-morphine (6-MAM, the first metabolite of Heroin.) and codeine.
L-Tyrosine and/or L-Dopa (Which Phenylalanine can be used by the body to create.) also are used to make the endogenous opioids morphine, 6-MAM and codeine.
Not sure if it used to make other endogenous opioids like endorphin and enkephalin but I assume it is.

Panax ginseng (Known as Asian ginseng, Chinese ginseng, Japanese ginseng and also Red ginseng.) contains something that acts as a mild opioid and stimulant antagonist but doesn’t work directly at the mu opioid receptors.
So it may potentially help with PAWS.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Pharmacological and physiological effects of ginseng on actions induced by opioids and psychostimulants] - PubMed

Pharmacological and physiological effects of ginseng on actions induced by opioids and psychostimulants were summarized. Analgesic effects of opioids, such as morphine and U-50,488H, were blocked by ginseng in a non-opioid dependent manner. Furthermore, ginseng inhibited the tolerance to and...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
I used ginseng and L trypthophan. I didn't notice any improvement. I give paws time, I think that's the only thing that helps.
 
Yea it will get better I used them can't remember the mg of each but around 10-20 a day and daily until script ran out quickly for around maybe 4 years or more. It sucked but I also used stuff to help with the withdrawal like kratom.
 
What? U needed 4 years to recover?
Im not sure if its the tramadol but i feel flat or empty
 
You could buy some DXM, it respectively the substance group (NMDA antagonists) it is a member in help with withdrawal and possibly also PAWS. Better would be memantine but this is Rx only and one needs an open minded doc to get it because the current approvation is only for Alzheimer's. But it works, here in Mexico it is OTC and helped me with getting off morphine for a great deal. For PAWS you don't need extreme doses, 20mg should be enough (or 100-250mg DXM).
 
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