Opioids Tramadol is a Serotonergic painkiller

[BizMarkie1000]

i don’t

i don’t give a fuck what i have to do. it’s not humane or within the bounds of human rights, it breaks international law, fuck these ppl doing this here. when i had surgery i made sure i had what i needed one way or another

many other ppl dont though. lots of suicides from it too.

I got to be honest. I truly admire your "Hell or high water" "By any means necessary" warrior spirit.

In THIS day and age... guys like you will PREVAIL above everyone else.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I've heard before that Agmatine can reverse (some kinds of) tolerance to some drugs.

Yes, it's why I included it in that recovery post.

 

[Deleted member 593549]

I got to be honest. I truly admire your "Hell or high water" "By any means necessary" warrior spirit.

In THIS day and age... guys like you will PREVAIL above everyone else.

not really i’ll get eaten by the machine for trying to do it my own way. but id be at best unemployed with no career and no health insurance doing it thier way, at worst dead from suicide from raw dogging extreme surgery that took 1 year to recover from without meds.

this is a meat grinder we are in…..this world
is a wood chipper and we just feed it bodies so that a nazi piece of scum that everyone hates (including himself) can become a trillionaire next year and OD on drugs and die one day; while hardworking families with dual incomes in the middle class, no kids, end up living in tents and tiny homes as the new normal in a decade

half america cheers this on. the other half is more concerned with imagined racism or getting 3 biological males trans females to play high school volleyball; than being literal slaves. the ppl are morons and getting what they deserve. the ppl are focused on bait and not the fact that they are slaves being fed into the meat grinder.

 

[BizMarkie1000]

not really i’ll get eaten by the machine for trying to do it my own way. but id be at best unemployed with no career and no health insurance doing it thier way, at worst dead from suicide from raw dogging extreme surgery that took 1 year to recover from without meds.

this is a meat grinder we are in…..this world
is a wood chipper and we just feed it bodies so that a nazi piece of scum that everyone hates (including himself) can become a trillionaire next year and OD on drugs and die one day; while hardworking families with dual incomes in the middle class, no kids, end up living in tents and tiny homes as the new normal in a decade

half america cheers this on. the other half is more concerned with imagined racism or getting 3 biological males trans females to play high school volleyball; than being literal slaves. the ppl are morons and getting what they deserve. the ppl are focused on bait and not the fact that they are slaves being fed into the meat grinder.

You have NO IDEA how much I fucking agree with you!

You have the courage to speak your mind! I LOVE YOU!

 

[Deleted member 593549]

You have NO IDEA how much I fucking agree with you!

You have the courage to speak your mind! I LOVE YOU!

it’s not directly this exact topic and the guy has a different vibe but if you want to see into my belief system more check out the youtube channel

@bornintoacorruptsytem9to5

see also the ideologies to antinatalism and efilism.

that’s where this kind of basically offensive
honesty comes from; these world views. amd that’s why it’s offensive to a lot of ppl, because it’s a truth that most spend their entire lives running from (drugs is certainly one way)

 

[JoeLeDux]

I've heard before that Agmatine can reverse (some kinds of) tolerance to some drugs.

If you're talking about agomelatine, I have been taking it for a couple of months and it has done nothing for my tolerance to opioids in any way.

I have found it reasonably effective in promoting and maintaining sleep, and for depression and anxiety when I'm awake. I'm taking a single 25 mg capsule a day. I'm in the US where it's not available as a prescription med, but is legal as a so-called research chemical. Unfortunately despite its being legal it's very difficult to find a source that sells it in a usable quantity at a reasonable price. I've looked high and low and have only found one supplier. It runs around $40 for a bottle of fifty 25 mg capsules, and the company posts independent labs to show potency and quality. It's a shame it's not easy to find because the stuff actually works. For sleep, depression, and anxiety anyway.

 

[BizMarkie1000]

If you're talking about agomelatine, I have been taking it for a couple of months and it has done nothing for my tolerance to opioids in any way.

I have found it reasonably effective in promoting and maintaining sleep, and for depression and anxiety when I'm awake. I'm taking a single 25 mg capsule a day. I'm in the US where it's not available as a prescription med, but is legal as a so-called research chemical. Unfortunately despite its being legal it's very difficult to find a source that sells it in a usable quantity at a reasonable price. I've looked high and low and have only found one supplier. It runs around $40 for a bottle of fifty 25 mg capsules, and the company posts independent labs to show potency and quality. It's a shame it's not easy to find because the stuff actually works. For sleep, depression, and anxiety anyway.

I was talking about A-G-M-A-T-I-N-E.

I LOVE when people think I cannot spell!

Makes me feel young again!

 

[SealSlapper]

On TOP of being an opioid, Tramadol is ALSO an SNRI (Serotonin/Norepinephrine Reuptake inhibitor) which is a fancy way of saying it FLOODS the brain with Serotonin and Norepinephrine at much higher levels than even a healthy, non-medicated person needs to maintain enough reward and motivation to live a productive life.

That's how Tramadol resembles classical antidepressants like Effexor, Cymbalta, etc..

Shit that sounds pretty good. I might try it. I wonder though, how does it compare to something like Prozac? That's the shit I take on a daily basis and I'm still depressed as fuck when I'm not high.

 

[SealSlapper]

I've tried Buprenorphine and it has really helped me with depression, but I need to get more when I got the money. I'm in a bit of a tricky place right now, hopefully I could get more soon because it really did help me with my depression more than any anti-depressant has.

 

[JoeLeDux]

I was talking about A-G-M-A-T-I-N-E.

I LOVE when people think I cannot spell!

Makes me feel young again!

Simple enough mistake to make, given the similarities. Try pulling your panties out of your ass crack and maybe you won't be so sensitive about it when someone is just trying to help. I won't make that mistake with you again.

I lied. Here's me helping you:

A-G-M-A-T-I-N-E as you so moronically spell it is speculated to maybe, sort of, kinda, but not really have that effect on opioid metabolism in R-A-T-S and that's sheer speculation, meaning a hypothesis with no solid evidence as yet to support it in any way. And humans metabolize things in a much different and often more complex way than rats. So no, as of now, it's of zero use for the purpose you speculated about. But it's cheap from fly-by-night supplement manufacturers. It doesn't yet appear to be harmful either. So like a sprinkle of holy water, it won't hurt. But it won't help either. So gobble all you want. I wouldn't touch it absent at least some possibility it will be helpful in some way. There is none.

 

[JoeLeDux]

Shit that sounds pretty good. I might try it. I wonder though, how does it compare to something like Prozac? That's the shit I take on a daily basis and I'm still depressed as fuck when I'm not high.

Good God Almighty please don't start mucking around with tramadol except for its established use as a poorly-effective opioid pain medication, and then only under the supervision of a bona fide medical doctor. Back in the days when you could order tramadol by the bucketload online I took tons of the stuff for recreational purposes. Wasn't great for fun times but it was relatively cheap and getting caught with a thousand of them wouldn't get you in any legal trouble. I had lots of problems then and one of them was severe depression. Whether taking a little or a lot tramadol did nothing for my depression. And the skanky shit damn near killed me. I posted a comment earlier about my experiences with tramadol but here's TL/DR version: it gave me a grand mal seizure when I was at home by myself, right after I'd finished a huge meal. And when I went down it was flat on my back. Lots of people vomit during seizures. It's common. And with my stomach full of food and not being conscious to keep my airway clear, had I just gone that one step further and puked my wife would have found be blue and dead as Abraham Lincoln when she got home from her night shift in the morning. It was pure serendipity that it didn't kill me. I had several other friends who were fools like me and they too took tons of tramadol and every last one of them had at least one grand mal seizure of their own, one of them behind the wheel of a car on the interstate. He spent months in the hospital and has never regained the ability to walk normally but hey, at least he didn't become an organ donor. The list of drugs and substances that, mixed with tramadol, drastically lower the seizure threshold is long as hell. Including pretty much every single serotonergic antidepressant (e.g. SSRIs) on the planet. Tramadol is shit for pain. It's shit for recreational purposes. It will either have no effect on your depression or it will make it worse. And it might just give you a seizure and kill you. Please oh please don't experiment with the stuff.

You say you're on Prozac. If you mix it or ANY SSRI with tramadol you *will* have a grand mal seizure. It's just a question of when. In my case it was using Paxil at the same time I was taking loads of tramadol that nearly put me in the ground.

I do note that at least in the USA it's now a schedule 3 controlled dangerous substance so it's as hard to get as other narcotics like codiene and hydrocodone. The likelihood of your finding a cheap source that won't just scam you or cause you to go to jail is slim. So you're probably okay even if you still want to fool around with the stuff. One of the extremely rare times I actually agree with a drug prohibition law. If you're outside of the USA and can easily get your hands on the stuff, and you're foolish enough to play with it, well at least let your relatives know so they can get a jump start on picking out a cheap dark suit for you for your funeral.

If you want to try an opioid for depression I recommend you try either 7-hydroxymitragynine or tianeptine sodium. Tianeptine is shit and kind of hard to find at a reasonable price these days but it is an opioid that IS also a legal prescription antidepressant in Europe (called Stabilon) and for recreational purposes is sort of okay. But it habituates quickly and after a month or two of frequent use becomes more or less useless. 7-hydroxymitragynine (7OH) is cheaper, much more effective, more fun if you're into recreational opioid use, and still relatively cheap if you buy it online from the right sources, and AVOID buying it from smoke shops/head shops. Both substances are illegal in some states but are still fully legal in most and under US federal law as well. Either would be a vastly better choice to experiment with than Tramadol. I've been using 7OH daily for a couple of years now for both chronic pain (I used it to get through a hip replacement and it was a godsend) and depression and surprisingly it still works well. Just at a much higher dosage than before. But that's the case with all opioids with chronic use. They habituate.

Good luck.

Edit: for me at least 7OH is a much more useful opioid than buprenorphine ever was. Taken infrequently bupe can give a so-so buzz. But for me at least the only use I'd ever have for it would be its intended use of trying to get off of opioids altogether. If you take it the way it's intended after a few days to a week you will feel no buzz, nothing, from it and it's a powerful antagonist and will also keep you from getting off on any other opioid as well. Fifty milligrams of 7OH feels much nicer than any dosage of buprenorphine and doesn't carry with it all the attendant risks--like pain medication being totally useless for you until the bupe is completely out of your system, a huge problem if you get hurt or need emergency surgery while taking the stuff. Compared to buprenorphine, 7OH is also dirt cheap and easy and legal to get. But that's my experience. Your mileage may vary.

 

[BizMarkie1000]

You probably need a tolerance break.
This happens with all opioids.

I wouldn't say it's "sucking the serotonin out of your neurons" either. It's a very weak serotonin releaser & serotonin & norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. It's metabolite O-desmethyltramadol is responsible for most of the effects, probably even the antidepressant effect.

All opioids can raise your serotonin levels in some way honestly. Some are just better at it than others. That's why there's always a slight risk of "serotonin syndrome" when combining any opioid with antidepressants.

I used tramadol for 10+ years & it kept it's magic until I started using heroin. And then it stopped working.
You most likely won't get the same antidepressant effect from oxycodone or hydrocodone. I know I don't. I prefer tramadol over the codones any day.
Of course, when I was on tramadol though, I had to withdrawal at the end of every month, which would reset my tolerance until the following month when I could get the script again. So that's probably why it kept on working for me.

I mean, in a sane world, a good doctor would just supplement you with some extra percocet on top of your tramadol for "breakthrough pain", but we live in a retarded world now full of opioid hysteria, so people gotta feel lucky that they even get what they can get. Shit I'd love to be on tramadol.

Hey Dude. I just came across this article from a Reddit user. I know many folks will dismiss it as "anecdotal"... but he brings up a great, (rarely-discussed) point. It might seem like I'm digressing or going off on a tangent - but I see a parallel here about the L-Tryptophan.
The bigger point he makes is that Tryptophan (and Serotonin) play a huge role in the "tolerance" of drugs (His examples were ADHD drug in general.)

At least check it out for yourself. We're all Bluelighters here, so I think we can somehow relate. Here it is:

 

[BizMarkie1000]

Good God Almighty please don't start mucking around with tramadol except for its established use as a poorly-effective opioid pain medication, and then only under the supervision of a bona fide medical doctor. Back in the days when you could order tramadol by the bucketload online I took tons of the stuff for recreational purposes. Wasn't great for fun times but it was relatively cheap and getting caught with a thousand of them wouldn't get you in any legal trouble. I had lots of problems then and one of them was severe depression. Whether taking a little or a lot tramadol did nothing for my depression. And the skanky shit damn near killed me. I posted a comment earlier about my experiences with tramadol but here's TL/DR version: it gave me a grand mal seizure when I was at home by myself, right after I'd finished a huge meal. And when I went down it was flat on my back. Lots of people vomit during seizures. It's common. And with my stomach full of food and not being conscious to keep my airway clear, had I just gone that one step further and puked my wife would have found be blue and dead as Abraham Lincoln when she got home from her night shift in the morning. It was pure serendipity that it didn't kill me. I had several other friends who were fools like me and they too took tons of tramadol and every last one of them had at least one grand mal seizure of their own, one of them behind the wheel of a car on the interstate. He spent months in the hospital and has never regained the ability to walk normally but hey, at least he didn't become an organ donor. The list of drugs and substances that, mixed with tramadol, drastically lower the seizure threshold is long as hell. Including pretty much every single serotonergic antidepressant (e.g. SSRIs) on the planet. Tramadol is shit for pain. It's shit for recreational purposes. It will either have no effect on your depression or it will make it worse. And it might just give you a seizure and kill you. Please oh please don't experiment with the stuff.

You say you're on Prozac. If you mix it or ANY SSRI with tramadol you *will* have a grand mal seizure. It's just a question of when. In my case it was using Paxil at the same time I was taking loads of tramadol that nearly put me in the ground.

I do note that at least in the USA it's now a schedule 3 controlled dangerous substance so it's as hard to get as other narcotics like codiene and hydrocodone. The likelihood of your finding a cheap source that won't just scam you or cause you to go to jail is slim. So you're probably okay even if you still want to fool around with the stuff. One of the extremely rare times I actually agree with a drug prohibition law. If you're outside of the USA and can easily get your hands on the stuff, and you're foolish enough to play with it, well at least let your relatives know so they can get a jump start on picking out a cheap dark suit for you for your funeral.

If you want to try an opioid for depression I recommend you try either 7-hydroxymitragynine or tianeptine sodium. Tianeptine is shit and kind of hard to find at a reasonable price these days but it is an opioid that IS also a legal prescription antidepressant in Europe (called Stabilon) and for recreational purposes is sort of okay. But it habituates quickly and after a month or two of frequent use becomes more or less useless. 7-hydroxymitragynine (7OH) is cheaper, much more effective, more fun if you're into recreational opioid use, and still relatively cheap if you buy it online from the right sources, and AVOID buying it from smoke shops/head shops. Both substances are illegal in some states but are still fully legal in most and under US federal law as well. Either would be a vastly better choice to experiment with than Tramadol. I've been using 7OH daily for a couple of years now for both chronic pain (I used it to get through a hip replacement and it was a godsend) and depression and surprisingly it still works well. Just at a much higher dosage than before. But that's the case with all opioids with chronic use. They habituate.

Good luck.

Edit: for me at least 7OH is a much more useful opioid than buprenorphine ever was. Taken infrequently bupe can give a so-so buzz. But for me at least the only use I'd ever have for it would be its intended use of trying to get off of opioids altogether. If you take it the way it's intended after a few days to a week you will feel no buzz, nothing, from it and it's a powerful antagonist and will also keep you from getting off on any other opioid as well. Fifty milligrams of 7OH feels much nicer than any dosage of buprenorphine and doesn't carry with it all the attendant risks--like pain medication being totally useless for you until the bupe is completely out of your system, a huge problem if you get hurt or need emergency surgery while taking the stuff. Compared to buprenorphine, 7OH is also dirt cheap and easy and legal to get. But that's my experience. Your mileage may vary.

Sorry for the confusion, but I am NOT on Prozac or any other SSRI's (Not when I wrote this post either) - Not even Trazodone! I stopped all SSRI's more than 15 years ago.

 

[shreddedlettuce]

It is definitely a text book case of a drug where the "risk" outweighs the "reward" big time.
It works for many obviously, but it is a dirty medication.
I have pasted a section from the Martindale below just for extra info.
And I have known many cases of non recreational users who got prescribed this drug and so many sad stories.

Effects on the CNS. The UK CSM1 commented in February1995 that since June 1994 they had received reports of 15 patients who had experienced confusion and/or hallucinations while taking tramadol. The majority of the reactions developed 1to 7 days after starting treatment and in most patients resolved rapidly on withdrawal. It was noted that psychiatric reactions comprised about 10% of all reactions reported with tramadol. In a later comment2 in October 1996, the CSM noted that 27 reports of convulsions and one of worsening epilepsy had been received, which corresponded to a reporting rate of about 1 in 7000. Of the 5 patients receiving intravenous tramadol, 2 had been given doses equivalent to 1.45 and 4 g daily, well in excess of those recommended (see also Overdosage, below). Of the patients receiving oral tramadol, the majority were taking other drugs known to cause convulsions, including tricyclic antidepressants and SSRIs. A similar pattern has been reported in the USA 3 and Australia.4-6 A debilitating CNS-mediated reaction to an initial dose of tramadol has been described in a patient.7 Symptoms, which lasted about 4 hours, included ataxia, dilatation of the pupils, numbness in all limbs, tremulousness, and dysphoria. Although the exact mechanism of the reaction was not known, it was suggested that since the patient was an extensive metabolizer with very high activity of the cytochrome P450 isoenzyme CYP2D6, high concentrations of the active O-dimethyl metabolite were the cause. The patient recovered with no sequelae. It is possible that this represents a case of the serotonin syndrome, since tramadol is known to be associated with this condition, particularly at high doses or when given with other drugs that raise serotonin concentrations.

References:
41. CSM/MCA. Tramadol (Zydol)—psychiatric reactions. Current Problems 1995; 21: 2. Also available at: http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?...015618&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased (accessed 26/06/08) 2. CSM/MCA. Tramadol—(Zydol, Tramake and Zamadol). Current Problems 1996; 22: 11. Also available at: http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?...023218&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased (accessed 26/06/08) 3. Kahn LH, et al. Seizures reported with tramadol. JAMA 1997;278: 1661. 4. Adverse Drug Reactions Advisory Committee (ADRAC). Tramadol—four years experience. Aust Adverse Drug React Bull2003; 22: 1–2. Also available at: http://www.tga.health.gov.au/adr/aadrb/aadr0302.pdf (accessed 26/06/08) 5. Labate A, et al. Tramadol and new-onset seizures. Med J Aust2005; 182: 42–3. 6. Boyd IW. Tramadol and seizures. Med J Aust 2005; 182: 595–6. 7. Gleason PP, et al. Debilitating reaction following the initial doseof tramadol. Ann Pharmacother 1997; 31: 1150–2.

 

[BizMarkie1000]

It is definitely a text book case of a drug where the "risk" outweighs the "reward" big time.
It works for many obviously, but it is a dirty medication.
I have pasted a section from the Martindale below just for extra info.
And I have known many cases of non recreational users who got prescribed this drug and so many sad stories.

Effects on the CNS. The UK CSM1 commented in February1995 that since June 1994 they had received reports of 15 patients who had experienced confusion and/or hallucinations while taking tramadol. The majority of the reactions developed 1to 7 days after starting treatment and in most patients resolved rapidly on withdrawal. It was noted that psychiatric reactions comprised about 10% of all reactions reported with tramadol. In a later comment2 in October 1996, the CSM noted that 27 reports of convulsions and one of worsening epilepsy had been received, which corresponded to a reporting rate of about 1 in 7000. Of the 5 patients receiving intravenous tramadol, 2 had been given doses equivalent to 1.45 and 4 g daily, well in excess of those recommended (see also Overdosage, below). Of the patients receiving oral tramadol, the majority were taking other drugs known to cause convulsions, including tricyclic antidepressants and SSRIs. A similar pattern has been reported in the USA 3 and Australia.4-6 A debilitating CNS-mediated reaction to an initial dose of tramadol has been described in a patient.7 Symptoms, which lasted about 4 hours, included ataxia, dilatation of the pupils, numbness in all limbs, tremulousness, and dysphoria. Although the exact mechanism of the reaction was not known, it was suggested that since the patient was an extensive metabolizer with very high activity of the cytochrome P450 isoenzyme CYP2D6, high concentrations of the active O-dimethyl metabolite were the cause. The patient recovered with no sequelae. It is possible that this represents a case of the serotonin syndrome, since tramadol is known to be associated with this condition, particularly at high doses or when given with other drugs that raise serotonin concentrations.

References:
41. CSM/MCA. Tramadol (Zydol)—psychiatric reactions. Current Problems 1995; 21: 2. Also available at: http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?...015618&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased (accessed 26/06/08) 2. CSM/MCA. Tramadol—(Zydol, Tramake and Zamadol). Current Problems 1996; 22: 11. Also available at: http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?...023218&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased (accessed 26/06/08) 3. Kahn LH, et al. Seizures reported with tramadol. JAMA 1997;278: 1661. 4. Adverse Drug Reactions Advisory Committee (ADRAC). Tramadol—four years experience. Aust Adverse Drug React Bull2003; 22: 1–2. Also available at: http://www.tga.health.gov.au/adr/aadrb/aadr0302.pdf (accessed 26/06/08) 5. Labate A, et al. Tramadol and new-onset seizures. Med J Aust2005; 182: 42–3. 6. Boyd IW. Tramadol and seizures. Med J Aust 2005; 182: 595–6. 7. Gleason PP, et al. Debilitating reaction following the initial doseof tramadol. Ann Pharmacother 1997; 31: 1150–2.

Since you mentioned sad stories of legally prescribed users of SSRI's, this important documentary came to mind (I sourced it on the bottom of the page).
Our current administration does more for Big Pharma than any other administration ever did.

Dr. Peter Breggin, and Dr. Gary Null both blamed SSRI's for the Columbine massacre in 1999.

Source: