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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

"Tomacco" for opiates?

Oh I understand, I guess I worded my statement rather oddly when I said "in the right order". What I meant is that I do not believe there is some kind of single "Morphine-synthase" whose DNA can be inserted into a plasmid and whose production means that the bacteria/yeast will now be able to make morphine out of raw nutrients.

I have the feeling that we do not yet posess the proper knowledge or skills to determine all the enzymes that poppies use to biosynthesize morphine from scratch, let alone the knowledge of how to cause them to be expressed properly in a bacteria or yeast. I guess it would be much easier to, say, engineer a a bacterium that can synthesize DMT from a culture that is fed tryptophan as a ready nutrient.

I could be wrong, though, since this sort of thing is not my forte.
 
What I meant is that I do not believe there is some kind of single "Morphine-synthase" whose DNA can be inserted into a plasmid and whose production means that the bacteria/yeast will now be able to make morphine out of raw nutrients.
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Right, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a dozen+ genes. Some things are easier targets, however. DMT would just require two known genes (to make it from tryptophan.) Many of the popular drugs (amphetamine, meth, THC, morphine, cocaine, even MDMA) could likely be produced using existing genes/enzymes; you'd just have to identify and combine them.

I have the feeling that we do not yet posess the proper knowledge or skills to determine all the enzymes that poppies use to biosynthesize morphine from scratch,
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We can do that much, at least. You analyze a sample of the plant, take a good guess at what chemicals are intermediates to morphine. Label those chemicals and see which enzymes they stick to, sequence the enzymes, and you're off to the races. (I don't mean to suggest this is a trivial, slow-weekend process, just not beyond the reach of current biotechnology.)

let alone the knowledge of how to cause them to be expressed properly in a bacteria or yeast.
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Figuring out the promoters isn't much of a problem compared to identifying all the needed genes in the first place. Since you'd be dealing with a 'pet' organism (insulated from the usual competitive/harsh environment pressures) you could lose quite a bit of fitness by letting the desired genes be aggressively over-expressed.

At any rate, there is no doubt in my mind that this will happen. Not tomorrow. At the least, not for years. Very possibly not for decades. But sooner or later, somebody will be bored enough or greedy enough and the costs will be low enough for it to happen.
 
tomacco.jpg
 
Really, all you'd need would be the genes essential for the enzymes from a given substrate. I remember years ago reading a paper about using a submerged culture of C. purpura; with the correct pre-loading of the nutrient with the correct precursors (and omission of the 'natural' one for the most part), it was possible to get LSD produced.

Separation & recovery from all the other alkaloids is another matter!
 
Consider the genes like a CD/DVD/hard-drive etc. What you have to do is identify with what the code actually means in relation to the the DNA base pair coding. Then you have to get your scissors and cut and paste the desired DNA into another organism. So in a way this is plagiarism since you are copying somebody elses work (in this case nature) and not making anything novel. But then again the end result would be novel so it is just taking what has already been done and taking it a step further. I dont think it would be worth doing for mescaline/DMT since these alkaloids are easier to manufacture in a laboratory. However by concentrating on something like arecoline for example, there would be the potential to secure alot of financial return on the investment. I'm not saying this is guarenteed to work by a long shot, but it would definately be worth the effort. My idea is simply to 'amplify' the desired strand of gene. By this I mean to copy and paste it several times. Also lots of DNA has been said to serve no function and is idle. So some of this could be removed to make room for the new genes. In all honesty though, I know fuck all about genetic engineering! and was just blabbering. So if anybody can chime in who actually knows this subject well then you are more than welcome to contribute.
 
Great response. I'm glad that this thread didn't just get ignored because I think its a valid topic. The ability to use a plant othert than p.s. to produce opiate akloids would do much for the black market. If someone could grow tomatoes with morphine or some other flower perhaps we could see the emergence of a domestic production market. The benefits of this would be substantial.
 
Like someone pointed out, the chance of it being engineered into a higher plant like tomato (or any angiosperm) is very low. The possibility of inserting the genes for the biosynthetic enzymes into a yeast or bacterium is a lot more likely
 
I don't know where I've read this, or if I just dreamed it, but it was something
with "injecting" psilocybe mushrooms with DiPT and after a while you could
find 4-OH-DiPT in the mushroom. Maybe you could inject the pods with some
easy-to-get-hands on chemical which later became morphine/codeine in the pod.
 
Sledge, I think you're thinking of Tihkal where Shulgin mentions some German experiment where psilocybin mushrooms were doped up with the synthetic DET intended as a nutrient or something and the mushrooms hydroxylated DET into 4-HO-DET.
 
^ Yep, apparently it works with all of the active tryptamines (DET, DPT, DiPT & MiPT), so the enzyme must not be very specific w.r.t. the size of the alkyl groups on the sidechain nitrogen; could be a possible cheap semi-synthetic route to the expensive 4-hydroxytryptamine psychedelics.

For morphine synthesis, you'd need to find out the direct biosynthetic precursors of morphine in P. somniferum and inject those into the plant (and hope that none of the enzymes are subject to rate inhibition from their products - neg biofeedback as seen in dopamine & serotonin synthesis in the brain)
 
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